Re: Bubba's recycling project
 

great to hear from you, as i wondered about you on a few occasions! glad to hear your daughter is in college...i know it's tough on ya'll, but how is she dealing with the transition so far? hopefully the start of football season will make things a little better for you all! and good to hear the ole truck is doing well, & i'm sure it feels good to drive it every day...i bet your daughter misses it though

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So whats the plans for the truck while the daughter is away?

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"The secret to a great daily commute is a daily driver that is really a blast to drive!!!" Attachment 994234
Dave I am just driving the tires off it.
It was down for a few days last week while I had to re-build the throttle cable bracket when the cheap plastic piece broke and the cable slipped.
I made it to work one morning with only about half speed when I had the pedal laid tight on the floor.
A couple of zipties was able to fix it enough to get me home that night.
Next thing - better wipers!! There has to be a better wiper arm and wiper setup than what I have. These are almost there just for looks..
Any body have any ideas???

I am still looking around for a nice 327 small block
Winter is coming. It is supposed to freeze tonight

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Hey Bubba I'm jealous! I wish I my truck was daily driving. It's not a 327 but I have the 283 from the 66 sitting on a stand in shop if interested. How did you guys make it through your fires? We just had another one two days ago. Talk about second hand smoking!

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I am having a blast driving it , I did make the mistake of jumping on the freeway last week and I forgot that it had a very short uphill ramp.
Wow!! Really good thing I had room to merge over and get up to speed!! That was too close for comfort as I kind held a few cars up before I finally made it up to speed.
Once I was at 75 mph , 2800 RPM Smooth and steady.
A friend called me last weekend and told me he has been recently given a small block by a older relative And he will give it to me if I can use it!, Supposedly it is a .30 over 350 that has all the machine work done and balanced , has new rotating assembly, pistons and parts , just needs put together. It has been apart for a few years but stored indoors and boxed .
I will be pretty excited if it is as good as it seems, but I have to wait until the fall harvest is over before I can pick it all up.
Thanks for the offer on the 283, Let me see what this deal is first, I may still need options

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:metal:free is always good. Now you have more stuff to do.:mm:

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Free is never without some kinda price

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Happy holidays!!!! it is snowing on Christmas day!
Attachment 1033533

Attachment 1033534 I received a couple of boxes early cuz I have been really good


Attachment 1033536
Not a lot is known about this motor. It has been stored for quite a few years in a elderly guys garage and was recently given to a friend who gave it to me. A 3970010 four bolt main block 1972 vintage
These two boxes have a 350 block and a bunch of Misc stuff. A assortment of unmarked caps and mains , the heads which have a one pair of valves removed. It looks like a .30 over block that was assembled and looks like it was run a little then disassembled. The hone marks are pretty fresh but has a upper carbon ring on the bore that shows a little run time.
The heads are nothing special, We have not picked up the crank and rest of the pistons, cam, crank, pans. I wonder about the condition of them..and if they are buried deep
I really do not know when the rest of the stuff is available for pickup. this may be it...

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Well I am truly Blessed this holiday!!!
My uncle gave me a 283 that he bought a few years ago and is tired of tripping over in his shop. It has been there at least 10 years
Was in a 64 C-10 Chevy and a 283 with 283/327 powerpack heads.

Attachment 1033549

Attachment 1033550

Attachment 1033552

Built a motor stand and ran a compression test and was really happy until I tested # 7 cylinder..... It had only 30 lbs.
Pulled the head, turned it upside down and filled it with water and it just poured out the intake port... Shoot...... the seat is rusted and leaks badly.
I found a crack on the other side so these heads are done.
The cylinder bore looks pretty good, My rough measurement shows it has been bored , and the ridge is slight and hone marks are visible. compression was 150 to155 on 7 of the 8 cylinders. I am not sure how accurate my gauge is but readings were fairly consistent.

So now what???

I would like to go with the 283 just to be different but I know the 350 would make more sense.

So questions for you guys.

What are my best options here ???
Now remember that this is a recycling project ...
Do I find another old set of 58 cc power packheads?? The local CL has a pair listed that needs rebuilt for 100$ OBO.

I am told that a 305Cu with 58cc HO heads will fit a 283, has the attachment holes and hardened seats. Sounds good so far, any body done this??

Anybody have a 700R4 behind a 283?? Does it have enough power?? It should be about 200-220HP when finished-- not a lot I know, but I would like to get some decent mileage here, heck the six only has about 140 HP now!!
(I have a TH350 now but would like to change to a overdrive for better mileage)
Will 305 Vortec head fit??
Will rams horn exhaust manifolds fit the newer Vortec head?? what about frame clearance??
I will need to get a 4 barrel intake manifold , now which is a better option, cast iron GM or aftermarket aluminum? 500cfm or 600cfm carb??

Scrap the whole mess and find a roller 5.7???
I wish I could order a crate motor but that is not my way of doing things and this is a budget build :lol:

I like the old school look of the 283, and the quickness of the 3" stroke.
The 283 has a oil fill spout on the front of the intake, Now I think you can probably use any small block intake if the oil filler is moved to the valve covers, But can you adapt a filler spout to any aluminum small block intake manifold ?? Summit has the old style filler available.
what style/ brand of 4 barrel intake is the best option for street use/ daily driver??


Happy New Year.. Be safe!!!
use a designated driver!! ( please)
Bubba

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Around here I can get a LS 5.3 with a harness for $500. That beats buying a bunch of parts and machine work. The expense is making the LS work.

The 3970010 block is really desireable. I would choose it over the 283. I'm not sure about the vortec heads. I wish I could be of more help.

Happy New Year!!

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Typically building a 350 will cost less than building a 283. Then the 350 will develop a lot more torque than a 283. Torque is what it takes to move these 2 ton trucks down the road. So in theory the 350 doesn't have to work as hard as the 283 does, especially when backed with a 700R4.

As for the heads. Yes the 305 heads will work on the 283 and give you close to the same compression. That would be my choice of budget heads for the 283.

If you are set on installing a Gen I small block, I would look around and see if you can find a '96-'02 L31 Vortec 350. That way you won't have to worry about a flat tappet cam going flat on you with the oils we have today. That Vortec 350 will cost a little more to build than the 350 you currently have, but it will be worth it IMO.

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So many choices.:mm: Whats a buget build? Good to see you getting your fingers greasy again. I'm sure you'll build somthing cool. If your looking for votes my is sell it all and buy a 383 short block; brown truck guy will drop it off for free. In the long run I would say it would save u $$$. A LS would be a good challange for ya.

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I think daughter would just get in trouble with a 383 but I would sure have fun.. I bet the mileage would not be too good:lol:

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Well you would have to buy a 5 window to put it in but that's the cheap part.:smoke::lol:

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Hey Bruce, Looks like you're having fun. Before I turned my 350 into a 383 I was get 18 miles per gallon when I kept my foot out of it. It was a 350 bored .030 with flat tops, 194 double hump heads, 350 horse 327 corvette cam, Edelbrock intake, rochester 4 barrel, HEI, MSD ignition, and none of it was roller although I prefer roller. It also ran 14.1 at 2600 feet with a 3 on the tree. I had a 327 built exactly the same, I mean exactly, and it ran a 14.5, but it didn't get as good of gas mileage, although there was a difference of a 4 speed behind it. Same gears, same truck. I would prefer the 350 over a 327 or 283, but if my truck had an original 327 or 283 I would have left it. Roller is a good way to go to. I think I am losing a lobe in my flat tappet 327 right now. The truck has been down a few weeks and I already changed the lifter and it's doing it again, so I am worried that it is the cam. I need to look at it again and measure lift. One thing to keep in mind with going roller that I found on my 383, there are cost savings with starting with a roller block from 86 or 87 and up, whichever year that started. Without a roller block the cam and lifters will cost something like $600 instead of $200. Then you have to set up a cam button and clearance in the front with a rigid timing cover. You also have to change the distributor gear. My thoughts on your choice is to do the math on which one is going to cost you less to build and then take into consideration that you might appreciate the torque of the 350 more. You would probably be happy with either. As for fuel mileage, I am not so sure you wouldn't do just as well with the 350 not having to work as hard. As for budget, costs can snowball fast and a stroker will drive it up.

Re: Bubba's recycling project
 

Attachment 1034448

Attachment 1034453

Attachment 1034456

Happy new year to everybody!!!

I turned on the furnace in the shop today, cranked up the TV and cleaned the top end and watched football . Had a great day!!!:mm:
The cylinders on the 283 had a little carbon on the flattops but the hone marks are still visible in the bore. I did have 150-155 compression on all but the bad hole with the leaky intake valve . I turned the head upside down and filled it with water and it just poured out the intake port.
It does have .30 over pistons and it is remarkably clean in the heads, valve covers and the lifter valley.
I need to get some plastigauge this week and check the condition of the lower end. I pulled out some of the lifters and they look new,

I am kinda thinking I may just see if I can find some 58cc 305 heads at the pick a part, get it running, try it out and see where I am at. The 416 HO head was one of the 305 heads from 80-86 so they should be still a few around if they are not cracked...
I can always sell it if I get it running.
I can always sell the old 58 cc power pack heads as they too can be rebuilt.

The advice on starting with the roller block is sound thinking. It is just to costly to set up the older block with the retro fit roller lifters, spider and dog bones.
But the 4 bolt 010 block has some value at least. A guy I went to high school with MANY years ago still runs a motor shop, so I need to check with him and learn some things and my options from his view.
My Uncle is a machinist also but he does not have all the proper stuff for the specialized trade of motors.

Back to work tomorrow, I did enjoy the holidays and some time off!!!

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Hey Bubba... The Edelbrock RMP Performer is a great intake for street use. I had one machined to accept the oil filler spout you're talking about from Summit and it worked well. After I spent the money having mine machined, I found they make one already setup with the spout. Let me know if you have any questions, I just completed my engine build not long ago using an old style block with new parts and can alleviate some of the headaches associated.

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I have bought two roller block 5.7 vortec complete engines locally for less than 100.00 each. They are used in 97-00 (I think) truck/van and seem to be plentiful. It may be a good option for you.

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Attachment 1054045
Middle of January was COLD!!! I took out the truck to be a pizza getter at 0* degrees . It had been parked for two weeks at sub freezing temps so it was kinda hard getting started . I did plug in the block heater for a couple of hours, and still needed the battery booster to help, but it did get running.
LOTS of fun to spin cookies on the Ice.

Its groundhawg day!!! It warmed up to the 40s today so opened up the garage so I started on the 283. I pulled the oil pan and checked out the bottom of the rotating assembly. I only checked out the middle 3 main bearings but they were all at .002. I checked out 4 of the rod bearings and they were also clean and checked out at .002.
So is plastigauge still accurate when it is cold?? I was wondering if it would still read the same at all temps both warm and cold.


Attachment 1054056

Attachment 1054057 Kinda like the blue, it looks good with the blue of the truck, I need to find out what color it is, Chevy blue or Pontiac blue. Wondering about the harmonic balancer. The rubber part of the balancer looks a little dry and old. Do I have to use the same size or can I use the bigger balancer ??

Attachment 1054058 What the heck did they do to the piston skirts?? The crank is a forged steel 283 crank but the clearance was a problem so it looks like they ground off the bottom of the skirt with a rock. Wonder how badly it is balanced . It is supposed to have a few thousand miles on this motor so it must have worked......

Re: Bubba's recycling project
 

Scored a used 2101 Edelbrock performer on Ebay - my plan is to machine out the hole for the filler spout on the intake like you did- I have access to the machine shop so that part is free. Does it clear the water neck and the upper radiator hose??

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Nice Bubba!! Good to see you on here!!

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It's great to see you plugging along at it. Good point about temperature and plasti gauge. I would think it would measure the same.

Re: Bubba's recycling project
 

The plastigage should perform the same regardless of temperature.

I have run the larger 350 balancers on the early 327's without any issues.

When you use an intake with the oil fill tube, you must use the '67 and earlier straight thermostat housing.

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As Captain said, you can use a 350 balancer/dampener on a 327, but, be careful of the timing TDC mark. Some older small blocks had the mark keyed different and if you swap them without checking, you might be checking your timing wrong. I learned this on my 1965 327 that had a dampener that didn't look so good. Switched it to a new one and then was puzzled for a while. I forget how much off it is, but a bunch, seems like 12 or more degrees. Seems like the issue is the crank keyway is at a different degree on the crank than newer cranks. I got it from Summit, for a 327, and they said they don't offer the other version. I just found TDC and put a new mark on my new balancer and was good to go. Most 400s are externally balanced, so avoid that one. Otherwise they are interchangeable because they are really vibration dampeners and not balancers so they are interchangeable. The only argument I have heard otherwise is the difference of recipicating weight affecting rev quickness, but I haven't found much that's difinitive on that. I've also had dampeners that has bad rubber that causes the condition of my pulleys not sitting right and they they flail around causing the belts to jump and squeal. Always good to use a new one.

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Note to self--- Do not break a four flute bottoming thread tap in a engine block ever again!!

Clearance on the 283 were right at .002 on the mains and rod bearing caps. clearance between rod caps was .009 so things are looking pretty decent on the bottom end.

Went to pick a part yard two weeks ago and found a set of GM 305 truck heads with casting number 601 . These are the 58 cc chamber and the 1.94/1.50 valves. this should end up around 9.25 to 1 if the math turns out. Popped a couple of valves out and found they were a little pitted and the rubber seals were really hard. They are at the NAPA machine shop and should be done this week. were from a 81 C-10 and has hardened seats and attachment holes.

I found several online Compression calculators and all were just a little different but all were around 9.25 to 9.5 . I don't want much more than that. does any body have a favorite online calculator site that they trust???

So while i was trying to decide if I was getting sick with the flu last week, I should not even been in the garage much less cleaning threads with an old 4 flute bottoming tap. It broke off in the starter mounting hole on the backing-out. so I sulked inside with the flu most of the weekend. :devil:

Today was a new day- fevers gone and had Presidents day off.:mm:
Well, I am here to tell you that a hardened 3/8 tap CAN be drilled out IF you are very patient and have a Dremel, diamond burrs and a small air drill with at least 40 or 50 3/32" carbide end mill bits.
Many thanks to my Uncle who has a large box of these bits that he picked up years ago and has stored them away in his machine shop.
And very patient means ; you have about a full day invested in this .
Drill through the middle and keep honing until the threading flutes break off one at a time into the hole. Use air compressor and central vac for the dust and broken parts
No threads were damaged in this screw- up.


PS> They make two and three fluted taps that are MUCH stronger that a four flute.

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Ha I just broke off a 4 flute on my hinge hole for my hood. I just said screw it and run it with no hinge bolts stays on good. Almost turned it back out and it broke off again...suc. At your age u should get a flu shot. I got one this years I got the flu twice. Once a week after the shot and again about 30 days later. It only lasted a day so I was lucky

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Dave , I had the dang flu shot last fall so this must have been something different.
Doc gave a 5 day pack of pills and I felt better after the third day.
I hate the night sweats and chills . At least it was a long weekend so I could hit The Nyquil

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Sounds like the flu. haha Least your better. Now get back to work. Waste of a good weekend though. suc. U know u don't have to give a reason every time u edit.

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Bubba, You need to find a balancer for a pre 1969 small block. '69 and later balancers had the keyway in a different place. There are several different diameter balancers.
With that in mind, you have to match the balancer to the timing covers. The timing tabs were spot welded to the covers and were placed farther out from crank centerline as the balancer's diameter increased.There are bolt-on timing tabs that can be used.
I would probably stick with a 283 or small 327 balancer. If you go with a larger 8" balancer you may have to modify a power steering pump bracket for clearance.
Another consideration is the balancer bolt in the end of the crankshaft. If your crank isn't drilled and tapped for the bolt, I highly recommend that you do this. Smallblock Chevies are known for balancers working their way off and creating havoc!
Hope this helps.

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Went to breakfast with some of the locals a couple of weeks ago and I think we improved the heck outta the local IHop parking lot after breakfast.

Attachment 1065050
I got the heads back from the machine shop. All ground, seated , with no cracks , only needed one guide and all new seals. Sweet!!
Double checked the CC as they are now clean. These 601 castings supposed to be 58CC and I came pretty close to the 58 mark. I made a little mess with the alcohol, the plexiglass did not really seal tight with the KY and I kinda bubbled it a bit . but close enough to the 58 mark to be comfortable
Attachment 1065055

how do I calculate these indents??? I am guessing 1CC each for a total of 4CC

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Attachment 1065072
This is what I think I came up with...
Is a +.30 over 283 from 65 vintage
I am confused . I found at least a couple of on-line Compression calculators that had the piston dome volume reversed... with the plus and minus swapped for the dish or dome
This is from Summit racing site figured if it was wrong, somebody would have said something by now..
Head gasket- The one machine shop sold me is a Felpro 7733SHI steel shim with .018 crush depth
The deck height was any where from .037 to .045 over several spots around the 4 pistons that I checked so I used .040 for an average

Spudder and Rbar-- thanks for the dampener input.. I was all set to spring for a new dampener, but I am gonna think about it again. I had forgotten about the keyway location changing , and did not think at all about the power steering brackets for a low mount power steering pump and short water pump..
I did find that my crank does have the threaded hole on the front end .I had to dig all the grease out to find it though

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Attachment 1065086 warmed up a bit a couple of weeks ago so checked the bottom end with the plastigauge -- all really close to .002"

Attachment 1065088

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Are you sure on that deck height measurement? That is quite a bit, and quite a variance too. Typically the pistons will be ~.025" down in the hole.

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Good news about the heads. I would have guessed they were cracked. Ihop looked like it was hoppin.

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Really good show on spike channel today. Horsepower show.. Engine building/machine work/head work.

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on the the deck heighth measurement, I am just using the slide depth rod on a end digital caliper around the edge of the piston hole.
how do you check depth of piston in the hole???

Re: Bubba's recycling project
 

I would say .025" is more common as well, but I have seen them at .040" also. I've used a caliper a number of times. The best way is with a dial indicator that sits on a "bridge" over the piston. To measure your valve reliefs and get a true piston volume, you can turn the crank until the piston is 1/2" down and then fill it up with liquid and measure the cc's. Of course you need to try to get an accurate measurement of how far down it is, not necessarily hitting 1/2", just knowing for sure how far down you are. Then compare that to a true cylinder of the diameter and depth. Formula is bore x bore x .500 x stroke=ci. Now multiply ci x 16.41 to convert to cc's. The difference between the two cc's is your true piston volume. How did I miss the breakfast?

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I found this quote in another forum while reading up on deck clearance and the desired quench clearance...
"Most aftermarket piston manufacturers build their piston with .020"-.025" reduction in compression height just to insure that the stock engine won't have too much compression. This is a safety factor, as they do not know what may have been done to the engine that the pistons are going into, i.e. milled heads and/or decked block. Last thing that a PER engine builder wants to happen is supply an engine for grandma's station wagon that pings due to excessive compression ratio." END QUOTE

Since i did not pull ever the pistons I am not sure of their length here. I did lay a straight and flat plate over each bore and with a feeler gauge, I know that all pistons have approx .030" clearance to the dead center of the piston deck and approx .030-.040 around the edges measured with the calipers. ( differences due to piston rock in the bore)

So the .030" deck clearance added to the .018" crush depth of the steel shim should finish out to approx .048" total quench depth .. Damn it all appears okay so far... any body spot anything that does not line up???

I did turn the crank around so a piston was at TDC , flat and level and filled 2 of the piston relief cuts up with alcohol with about 1 cc each. so 4 is gonna be pretty close.
I am sure that this engine has been run quite a few miles after the rebuild , since it had plenty of carbon buildup,
I know it has just sat for at least 8 to 10 years after being removed from the truck . The only real change is going the be the new heads that will be 2 cc smaller than the old 60 cc power pack heads.

Rbar , we did talk about you, due to your absence at the breakfast .




just a thought here, with the old 60 cc heads , they had used the 350 (4.060 bore) .040" thick head gaskets. It may have not been a strong runner.... compression would have only been about 8.3 to 1

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Yeah, I didn't know about the breakfast.

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Progress is slow but still happening. been a busy spring so far.
Still driving the 64 to work on the nice days,I leave it home on rainy days cuz the wipers still bite.
Working on the 283 in spare moments when I can.
I did get the new timing gear chain and sprocket on tonight. Then tore apart the existing oil pump- it all looks good and fairly new but the bypass spring is broken-- glad I checked and luckily found it. Things could have been ugly .


So where can you find a stock bypass spring for a small block oil pump?
There seems to be high pressure springs available online(summit, jegs) etc, but not a stock pressure spring.
any ideas or some body have an extra old one??