Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

man that looks fantastic glock. thats the way I like to see these done. factory looking setups. nice! :metal:

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

Thanks guys!

Well, I tinkered with the AC last night. I have the compressor mounted and the belt on for testing, but I have mixed emotions about using it in this location for two reasons.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...c/P1010202.jpg

First, the trans cooler lines must be tucked up much higher and closer to the block than their OEM location because they sit on the cross member and the drag ling link if left in the OEM location/bracket. So I moved the bracket up to clear all that. But with the AC compressor bracket on, the are squeezed between it and the block. Not pinched, but rubbing. I worry that normal vibration could rub a hole in one of them. I slid on some split loom, but that doesn't ease my worries. It does look like I could pull them down and away from not only the block, but to get extra clearance to the belt/pulley, and make a bracket that I could attach them too with line clamps.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...c/P1010203.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...c/P1010204.jpg

Next is the location of the outlets. It doesn't look that bad in the pics, but the smaller port, which is lower on the compressor, would come out up under the top rail of the frame. Given the size of the fittings, the top of the frame would have to be cut out, and a raised portion welded back in, similar to how folks notch are raise the rear frame for bagging.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...c/P1010205.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...c/P1010206.jpg

(This is a side view of the frame. The red dotted,line is what would be cut out, and the green lines are new metal to be welded back in. The side would also have new metal welded in on the outside of the frame.)

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...c/Framemod.jpg

The part that gives me heart burn about doing this is the proximity of the idler arm. I am a little nervous about cutting and modifying the frame in this area, because the idler arm mounts to the frame about 2"-3" in from of where the AC fittings need to come out. It's not my welding skill that makes me nervous, it's just the location. And Fred will be no garage queen either, he will see a lot of miles on less then smooth roads. Maybe I'm worrying about it too much, because if I do my part correctly, it should be just as strong or stronger when I'm done.

I have a couple other options. The compressors used on the Trailblazer SS 6.0 and a handful of other GM vehicles is not only SHORTER (thus not requiring the motor mount mod), but the outlets are further up on the housing, so they look like they would clear the frame. I might run to NAPA and see if they have one of these (top pic), and one like I have (bottom pic) so I can compare them side by side. In the bottom pic, it is the lower fitting location that is giving me the problem.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...compressor.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...compressor.gif

The other solution, which is light years easier, but will run about $400, is an AC compressor relocation kit I found. It is available for most all LS front end setups (Corvette, F-body, truck), locates the compressor high on the passenger side, uses a better design Sanden compressor versus the OEM, and uses the same belt as the rest of the accessories. This may be the route I eventually take.

http://www.kwikperf.com/lsx_ac.html

http://www.kwikperf.com/sitebuilder/...ne-360x270.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...elocatedAC.jpg

I don't mind spending the money to do it this way, but I was really hoping to keep it as OEM as possible.

I guess I've got some thinking to do today.......

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

The last option is the way i decided to go, but yet to do it. The cost of the kit and compressor has put that on hold. The reason i want to use the relocation kit was to keep from cutting into the frame.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

I have no problems cutting a frame, it's just that I have a problem cutting the frame in this location since the idler arm is mere inches away. :( That doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

If you have the room, I think the relocation setup is the way to go. The sanden compressor is a proven unit, and looks relatively OEM. I guess the relocation kit would be better (to me, anyhow) than modifying the frame to fit the compressor.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

Another option is to use the Astro van A/C compressor. It is a smaller more compact unit than is used on the other GM vehicles of the time that looks a lot like the Sanden unit.

You may be able to snag the mount brackets off of the Astro van and modify them to work in conjunction with the stock LS brackets to make your own high mount kit on the LS engine.

I would see what they did in the $400 kit and make similar parts to use the Astro van compressor. They are inexpensive, easy to get and a factory GM part you can get over the counter anywhere in the country they sell GM parts.

You can get them as R-12 or 134a compressors too so if you are doing a retrofit like yours with most of the stock R-12 system in place you could stick with the R-12 version and not deal with the conversion issues.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

OK, I decided to go with the high side kit. The time I put into modifying the motor mount was all for nothing, but I'm not upset. It led me to find out that other ways do exist.

So... that means unless you really want to modify the engine stand, the adapter plate, notch the frame, and reroute the trans cooler lines.... you can simply use the adapter plates I used and have everything else literally fall into place. I'll just wait until next month to get the bracket kit and the compressor since the weather is kind of cooling off now.

I ordered two new gas tanks from Rock Auto a little bit ago (1987 tanks with the baffles). I also ordered an adapter from Street & Performance to mount the coolant temp sending unit for the gauge in the rear of the passenger head. The adapter screws into the M12x1.5 hole in the head, and they come in 1/8 NPT, 1/4 NPT. 3/8 NPT and 1/2 NPT. I needed 3/8 NPT for my stock sending unit.

And as I was typing this, UPS showed up with the 5/16" and 3/8" FI hose and the FI clamps. Guess I know what I am doing this weekend!!! :metal:

I also drew out my fuse block setup, along with the relay wiring I'll need to do for the fuel pump and the electric fans. Easy stuff, but I like having it on paper to refer to. I'll end up with a 4-fuse block (3 ignition and 1 battery hot to the 2006 harness), along with 1 relay for the fuel pump and 2 relays for the fans (1 lo, 1 high)

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

man... i have been waiting to post until i see the a/c set-up. so the tbss compressor wont work? what other ls combo has a high side a/c compressor?

i'm asking because as you know i havent bought mine yet... and i'm thinking if there isnt another affordable ls powerplant out there with the highside a/c this might change my mind ($$)on the swap. $400 for the pulley mount + the compressor?...

your really doing it the right way by getting the '87 tanks too Bob... i have it wrote down in my notes somewhere to do the same. but its just getting pricey.

iduno, :( this has really got me thinking...

$1200 700r4
$1200 heads
$200 cam
$200 serp set-up
$200 a/c compressor

whats your thoughts? i'm going to find out what gen III has a high mount a/c... maybe 6.0's?

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

I have a link on my puter at work that I will post for you tomorrow. A guy took a pre-Vortec 4.3 V-6 mount and modified very easily to accept the smaller radial type compressor that Fred originally had. It looked like it belonged there, and was installed on a Gen III. It's just not what I want to do.

I'll also post a pic of an TBSS compressor that was mounted on a Gen III block. It didn't look like it mounted directly to the block, which I thought it would, but it looked like the made 4 adapters to go on each bolt hole.

The problem with using one from the other LS setups, which would be from a car, is that they all sit closer to the front of the block. Example, using strictly made up numbers.....where the truck serp belt would sit 4" in front of the head, the car belt would be 2". The pulley alignment would be way off.

BUT, you could certainly use the entire front of another LS setup, LS2-3-6-7. I think I have drawings of the different car setups and where each item lives, I'll post those tomorrow too.


**EDIT:

I just read this part again. The bracket kit is $197, and I found compressors for as low as $145 today. Current Performance sells the compressor and bracket kit together for $397.

http://www.kwikperf.com/sitebuilder/...12-200x175.jpg

For me, spending the $350-$400 is worth it versus messing with the frame in this location, plus having easier access to the compressor for servicing, not having to reroute ($$) the tranny cooler lines, and using a better proven compressor.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

:lol:, it only gets more expensive as you go! I was well in to the 5 figures on the 68, and it wasn't close to being done!

Are these figures for your current engine, or a 'budget' list for an LSx?

Take a look as you Goat, I would think that might be higher.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

thank you Bob!

those figures were for the crate 350 i have...

$400 for the entire setup isnt too bad... i'll look at the goat tonight.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

:haha: I just read this one a guys blog, so true!

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

:haha: I just read this one a guys blog, so true!

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

:haha: thats how it goes... then there is that $1000 law when i want to do something to the goat! i swear everything on that dang car is 1k.:lol:

we'll see how it goes... the more i think about it, the top mount kit isnt too expensive... and also going that route i wont need to have a special someone modify the engine mount table or cut the frame. which also saves a few bucks.

SOMETIMES IT JUST SEEMS SO MUCH SIMPLER TO PUT THE OLD 350 BACK IN W/ A PAINLESS WIRE HARNESS:haha:

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

That law really takes effect when you get a boat= Break Out Another Thousand.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

^^^ Amen on the boat thing. It's just a hole in the water to throw money. Money I have set aside to throw at my truck...and Mustang...and the shop...and.....you get the point :)

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

There is easier, and doing something different. It's really a matter of opinion. Really from this thread Bob has made the swap look pretty easy. Yes a lot of homework, and $$. However, the end result will look sweet. On the flip side there are a lot of old school 350's in trucks that look sweet as well. My suggestion would be to lay everything out on paper, and really look at both setups. Then decide which is better for you, and the current project you are working on.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

^^^ Agree. Just FYI, by the time this swap is done, I will have probably right at $4500 in it. That's counting every last hose clamp, can of paint of degreaser, gauge cluster, AC stuff, gas tanks, harness rework and tune, etc.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

thanks for the heads up on the $...

the goats compressor is mounted really low also. its hard to tell exactly how low because the way the motor mounts but it still looks low when i look at the frame rails of the truck. oh yea, did you already figure a way to mount the '06 radiator in there?

$4500 huh... i'm going to figure exactly how much $ it will be to get 300hp out of this 350 w/ a new 700r4 to see which route is more cost effective. i never plan on dd her... just shows and cruises so mpg is a mute point...

sorry to brain storm right in the middle of your build Bob! :lol:

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

If you only want 300 hp out of a 350 then you can get away with a pretty inexpensive setup.

It all comes down to how you want it to look and if you want EFI or not.

A stock set of 1.94 valve run of the mill small block heads, a 280 degree hydraulic cam, an RPM intake & 600 to 750 carb with headers and a decent exhaust will get you 285 hp to the rear wheels. That is about 340 hp at the crank. I have run this combination on several vehicles and it sounds nice with just a little bit of a lope, runs great and is tame enough to use as a daily driver. You don't even need a stall converter with it.

You can freshen up a decent condition 350, install the required parts and build a good exhaust system for under $2000.

When you want aluminum heads and/or EFI things get expensive quickly and the LS engine becomes a viable option.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

What kinda torque?

that is about the set-up I'm thinking but with a performer intake....285 at the rear wheels ain't bad:metal:

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

$4500 seems like a bunch of cash....but just the smooth power, fuel ecomony, and reliability may make it worth it, not to mention how cool this rig is going to be.


totally agree with this
Boat=bottomless money pit



This guy claims this engine is 300 hp model
Price seems pretty good but you'll have to add shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-3-V...Q5fAccessories

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

My feelings exactly!! :D

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

http://www.maliburacing.com/forum/vi...p?f=34&t=79059

http://www.maliburacing.com/josh_mal...ket_primer.jpg
http://www.maliburacing.com/josh_mal...2-08/front.jpg
http://www.maliburacing.com/josh_mal...elt_layout.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k1...compressor.jpg

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

Bob, I gotta put the rest of my bolts in my truck and hook up the wires and drive out to see Fred again. Coming along really nice. GOOD WORK!

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

:metal: thanks for those reference pics... the tbss looks like it actually might work. the goats is way different w/ the inlets pointed more downward.

and i agree the ls swap is way cooler than a gen I 350:lol:

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

Thanks!! I'll be in the shop until 2:30 - 3:00 tomorrow. Come on out!

If I didn't already have everything together as far as I do now I would try a TBSS compressor. It would be really nice to try one on a short block to check for mounting and alignment and stuff like that.

I got a LOT done tonight! My wife took the kids to Colo Springs to pick up a friends son that will be staying with us this weekend, so I had the joint all to myself! :metal:

I got the fuel system basically done. I am just waiting on the tanks to get here, and I can get then in. I am a little worried that I didn't get small enough clamps for the 5/16" return hose. I can twist then on the nipple if I really try. I may hook up one tank on the floor just to see if I have any leaks. That way I can have good access to check everything, and if I find no leaks I can get the bed on sooner.

Made a bracket for the trans cooler lines near the front of the engine.

Got the shift linkage hooked up too. Had to do a little tweaking here and there, but it goes into all gears including 1st.

Got almost all the rest of the wires ran to the engine... oil psi, temp, starter. About all I have to wire under the hood is the power wires for the PCM. I still have to do the cluster and the pedal. The pedal will require some modifications to fit right. I think I might try to weld on the original pedal so it looks correct.

I was able to use the battery cables from the 06. The ground worked as-is, the positive needed shortened. I'll pick up a terminal to solder on tomorrow. Also got a wire ran from the alternator over to the battery.

Tomorrow I'll probably work on the exhaust. If that goes well, I may go ahead and get the radiator support on, then I can splice in the front light harness.

The biggest problem so far is the electric fans. They are for the original radiator, which is wider than the 85's. The fans are just as wide as the 06's radiator. So I'll probably hit some yards next weekend to find some fans.

I'm aiming for trying to fire him up by next Sunday or the following Saturday. I REALLY want to drive him in on our Colorado cruise on the 27th!

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

Holy crap!!! thats awesome progress for just 1 night alone!!! looks really good buddy... more than 1/2 way home;)

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

Looks awesome man. I think just for the piece of mind I would go ahead and get tighter clamps for the hose. Just because it doesn't leak now, doesn't mean it won't after having some time on the road. It's coming along nicely. :thumbs:

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

Yeah John, I think I will order smaller clamps. I have an extra box each of the larger and smaller clamps, so I will return those for credit and get a box of the next size smaller. The only FI clamps anyone sells around here is in an assortment pack, so I'll get one so I can put the right size clamps on the tanks at least, then I can install them Wednesday night when they get here. The others will be easy to get to and replace even with the bed on.

Dennis - It's amazing what I can get done when I don't have my two extra "helpers". :lol: That was about 5 hours of peaceful work last night.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

i was just noticing you ended up going w/ just 1 filter/regulator. and how far up the frame rail to the engine is going to be high psi. rubber hose? man that looks a whole lot simpler than i imagined! 1 more question, are you going to use rubber hose to connect to the sending unit and hard line for the passenger side also? okay i lied 1 more, how many 37* flares did you have to make going with mostly high psi hose? i guess you had to make 2 on just the trans cooler lines alone...

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

#1 High PSI hose all the way to the engine, really isn't that far.

#2 Yes, rubber from the pass side SU to the valve, and I used the OEM hard lines to run across from the drivers side.

#3 Yup, 2 on the cooler lines, and 1 on the output side of the filter.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

Whew, busy day!! Got a TON done again.

I need to get in the shower and head to town, but quick overview:

- Exhaust hooked up
- Driveshaft in
- Rad support on, grill on, radiator in, rad hoses on
- Almost ALL wiring done, cruise hooked up, fuse block and PCM relay installed and wired. I just need to wire the fuel pump relay, and modify then mount the pedal, and crimp a ring terminal to the starter end of the battery cable.

If it wasn't for needing the correct AN fittings for the trans cooler, I could fire it tomorrow!!!!!!!

7 total working days so far!!!!!! :metal:

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

Wow!!!

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

:thumbs: sweet! i was thinking you would have to use steel braided lines along with the -an fittings.... :metal: much simplier, cheaper, and easier!!


damn your almost done man!!!!!!!! i cant wait for the 1st start-up...

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

and hey wait just a minute here!! check out that grille! :lol: awesome!!

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

Yeah, Fred is a little confused as to his identity! :lol:

As for the fuel line I used (the blue line), it is from Summit, and the AN fittings used for it are Summit's "Snap Tite" or something like that. Rated for up to 250 psi. Simply push the fitting on the hose. And they WILL NOT pull off! I tried!

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

I was thinking the same thing. He was trying to sneak that one in on us.

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

man, i cant stop looking at those pics! your making this swap look like a piece of cake Bob...

btw great info on the fuel system!

John, i actually had to stop and watch his avatar for a sec. :lol:

Re: Glock's new project: "Fred"
 

Man you need to get back to work on your truck so little things like that don't slip by you. :lol: