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This is all out of my realm of experience, but I'm trying to pay attention and learn something. ;)

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I'm heading over to my buddy N2billets house this week to take some measurements on a stock height truck just to get an idea of where the numbers are @ stockish height for comparison.

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Good luck finding a stock height anything around that place. :lol:

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that was funny....

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Oh, you might be surprised at whats around that shop. :smoke:

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Yep, that's why I stopped by..... At this time, there happens to be a stock height truck in his driveway. The trans output is angled down 3° min, both d.shafts are angled down 2.X°, & the pinion is pointing up (couldn't get a solid measurement on that w/o removing the d.shafts).

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with cool "CUSTOM" paint

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Amazing what was considered 'custom'....

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well at least it's not a hot pink heartbeat stripe !!

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That's just hurtful......besides you don't know what I have in my dad's shop now.. ;)

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Yeah, I'm not on the A list these days, so nothing would surprise me.

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Well, I've made some progress but no pics yet. I've been working on the trans spacer & in my measuring process to ensure everything was correct/repeatable, I found something wasn't....

I was told that sometimes you subtract the angles of the trans or pinion vs. the d.shaft & sometimes you add them. It was mentioned more than once that because my d.shaft was inclined from the trans to the pinion, that I had to add the angles. It was also recommended that I try & get the d.shaft level or angled down by raising the trans/motor. I worked on the d.shaft angle so it was no longer running uphill to the pinion. With that, I was subtracting my angles @ the trans to d.shaft as well as @ the d.shaft to pinion to get my previous numbers quoted above.

In my numerous set-up attempts, I realized my digital angle finder (DAF) could automatically adjust & compare the difference between two angles. I put the DAF on the trans output & then compared it to the d.shaft & my numbers matched what I expected & previously calculated. I repeated the process for the rear as well. I established the angle on the pinion, zeroed out the DAF, & then moved the DAF to the d.shaft. Instead of subtracting, I should have been adding.....

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . . ..... So, I sat there thinking it through again & realized that I should be able to do a simple tweak w/a shim & yield similar results. I removed a .250" shim which dropped the trans slightly thus bringing the d.shaft closer to level. This changed the front 'working angle' to 2.1°. The reduction of d.shaft slope meant adding less angle to the rear so I wound up w/a 2.3° working angle.

2.1° & 2.3° = less than 3° for good (normal) u-joint life. >3° angles are where many 'hot-rodders' complain vibrations become notable.
2.1° & 2.3° are within .2 of exact canceling angles.
The pinion angle was achieved w/o needing shims (w/the T/A mounts flipped).
This still allows for the CV-joint/1pc shaft set-up as my fail-safe.

Simple huh?

So, w/this all sorted, I noticed the d.shaft creeping up on one side of the T/A x-member hoop. I decided to get some measurements on stuff for verifications. I was relieved to see it was just all the up/down movement adding/subtracing shims @ the trans & loosening/tightening, wheels on/wheel off, @ the rear that skewed things slightly. After a quick nudge here & there, the trans is centered within the frame (& visually looks it); same for the rear housing (also 'looks' centered). With these confirmed, the shaft was closer to the middle (as close as it will get w/the slight pinion offset). Hopefully, I'll get an opportunity to finalize the trans spacer tomorrow. Then I'll take final measurements to determine how much the trans tunnel needs to be tweaked for clearance.

I also cleaned up an old set of sbc valve covers to work on my 'out of view' PCV system. Slow progress, but progress.

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Progress? are we talking about progress? :wop:

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I took multiple pics when documenting/adjusting all the angles. But the pics just don't show well. You can't read the DAF display because of the pic & I doubt you could tell a difference of the rear housing with & w/o shims.

It's been a tedious process to say the least....

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Ok, pics & info for the hounds. I got the trans spacer finished today. Painted it & the shims I'm using to dial in the front working angle for the drive-line....

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Here's an 'exploded view' of the shims, spacer, & poly trans mount w/hardware plus everything installed....

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While in between coats & waiting for paint to dry, I prepped all the truck-arm x-member pieces (prep = stripped to bare metal). I had already cut & trial fit everything for raising the d.shaft hoop. I got everything welded up & then did post welding 'clean-up'....

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Then I installed the trans mount/spacer assembly & d.shaft. I took a measurement @ ride height & had a little over .750" clearance. There's about .1875" clearance @ max drop/compression (air'd out)....

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And the 'working angles': 2.4° @ the front (trans to d.shaft); 1.5° @ the rear (90°-88.5= 1.5°; pinion to d.shaft); & the descending d.shaft slope from the trans to the pinion....

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Nice!!!! Thanks for the pics. Us hounds appreciate it ;)

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I'm still trying to get my head around all these angles.
Thanks for posting pics also.

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Scot,... assuming the ECE trans crossmember positions the transmission in the stock location,... how tall is your combination of spacers at the tail shaft?
I'm also keeping in mind that the Dropmember raises the engine one(?) inch higher than stock.
I guess I'm trying to figure out how much you are changing the engine/trans installed angle compared to a stock truck.
Seems like the tailshaft is much higher.

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The ECE x-member is in a 'stock' location as in I was able to utilize factory holes in the frame rails for the mount hardware. The total height of the trans spacer is 3.5" which includes a 3" block, a .250" trans mount spacer, & a .250" shim to dial in the exact height I want.

I recall Nathan saying the motor is moved up about 2" & forward about 1.5" w/the Dropmember/sbc combo. He also recommended setting the trans @ 5° down. A 2pc driveline would mean no cab cutting; 1pc driveline = clearancing req'd (less clearancing needed on 6x-66's vs. 67-72's).

With the 2pc driveline set-up per Nathan's recommendations, it would work. Even though it would work, it would not be ideal (there in lies the catch-22; we're dealing w/extreme drops & their subsequent extreme angles). There's no achieving 'perfect world' angles w/these extreme drops. That being said, I priced a 2pc driveline from 2 different sources & the quotes were $600-700 (price included new yolk, balanced front shaft, balanced rear shaft, 1310 F/R u-joints, HD carrier bearing, & CV or slip joint (w/warranty).

At $600+ bucks for a functional compromise, I decided to spend much less, trim the cab, & have the same functional compromise. I also planned for a fail-safe. If my angles don't work, I can drop the trans a little more, use a CV joint, raise the pinion to near zero & Nathan says I'll be good to go. The 1pc/CV set-up also fits under my raised d.shaft hoop.

Also.... If I would have left my rear wheel C/L alone (instead of moving it back 1" to center it within the wheel-well), I wouldn't have to do anything to the current d.shaft I used for mock-up. I have another d.shaft that's slightly longer & will have it cut down to the necessary length.

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After reading all this again about the angles and what you did, I now have a headache...

I think all your work is going to pay off big once you get it all together and having fun driving it. Makes me think that I need to revisit my driveline angles once I decide what my ride height will be this time...

So, When is the cab going onto the chassis?

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And the dance continues..... one step forward, 2 steps back.

I had the morning off so I made plans to be @ a local d.shaft joint when they opened up. I brought 2 shafts w/me. One of them was the one I have been using for mock-up; the other was an extra that was about 6" longer.

I taped & marked the mock-up unit to allow quick & easy measurements from a reference point on the shaft. I explained that the shaft was used in my mock-up process & physically fit but was just barely too short in my mind (quick glance was 50% engagement of the output shaft). They wanted the measurements from the trans output shaft tip to the end of the u-joint flange. I explained I didn't measure but that I wanted the 'new' shaft to be 1" longer than my mock-up unit. He took some measurements of the 2 units & cut the longer one down. Welded + balanced w/some fresh u-joints & I was on my way. I did pause for several moments because although the new shaft was shorter than before, it sure looked to be greater than 1" longer than the mock-up unit. I decided it was my eyes playing tricks & headed to the shop.

I got to the shop..... my eyes were correct. The new shaft would not (could not) physically fit between the trans & rear pinion even w/the d.shaft yoke fully bottomed out on the trans output shaft. I called them to break the news & the shop foreman repeatedly said "this is why we have our customers measure the distance between the trans output shaft tip to the end of the u-joint flange...... It eliminates these mistakes." So I measured exactly as directed. I even took reference pics of where I was measuring from.

I got back to the d.shaft place & explained that there must have been some confusion between the builder & myself. I again said the new unit needs to be about 1" longer than my mock-up piece & that it should be easy enough to figure overall lengths & handed them the dimensions of my set-up as requested.

They whacked another ~1.5" off the d.shaft, re-welded, & re-balanced it. I also paid an additional fee because after all, if I would have provided the requested dimensions initially, it would have been right the first time.

I drove back to the shop to install the 'new.2' shaft...... Viola..... it doesn't fit. Now, 'new.2' is closer to going in.... but it doesn't. Again, w/the yoke fully bottomed out on the trans output shaft, the pinion end is just barely is too long (.125" maybe) so you can't seat it in place.

I placed the 'new.2' shaft next to my mock-up shaft..... it's about 1.x" longer (still not 1" longer). I can see now how those critically important dimensions helped so much. [/sarcasm]

2 trips (min 30mins away) to down-town Dallas.
Paid for shortening the same d.shaft twice.
3/4 tank of gas.

I'm still using the mock-up d.shaft. I took better measurements & have about 60% of the d.shaft yoke engaged on the trans output shaft splines. I'll live w/that vs. another trip.....

The guy that worked on the shaft was great to work with even though this was an excersize in futility (I'd buy him a beverage or 2 if I saw him out on the town). It would however be nice to serve some 'crow' to the shop foreman w/his repeated "this is why we do it this way" comments so I'll prob go ahead & call Monday just to poke a hole in his sails.

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i can imagine his answer will be sum tin like "you didn't measure right "

in hindsight it might been handy to first have them or a machine shop nearby cut the driveshaftyoke off so it can slide into the pipe drive back make it fit on the truck before taking it to the shop again for welding and balancing , that way its easier to lob off Wat's needed to make it fit
if you have to pay them to do the job correct again anyway this might be the right moment to try another drive shaft shop ........ i think that would hurt him more than just keep trowing money down on the counter at his shop

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Oh ... ya ... I've been down that road with the driveshaft guy too. It's a bit frustrating at best.

ya just gotta work trough it.

Ratty 46

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This will be my approach. I'm so close that I'm going to try & machine the d.shaft yoke the amount needed so it can slip into place (if it's possible).

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Been down this road.......this is why my truck will be loaded on my trailer and driven down to them so THEY can take the measurements because they must have a special tape measure that is not available to us.

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I figured carrying the extra shaft would be easier. Just for giggles today, I plopped the mock-up shaft on a piece of wood paneling, squared it w/the edge using some 3" steel angle iron, & scribed a line @ the tip of the yoke. I repeated the process for the 'new.2' shaft.

The difference in length? 1.375".
The amount I would need trimmed off so I can put it into the pinion yoke? .375".

Now I'm no Rhoads Scholar, but I seem to recall making a statement @ the beginning of this expedition....
In reality, it's very minimal spline depth gained but I wanted as much as possible just because I'm 'particular' (:haha:). I'll stick w/the mock-up piece & will prob press the joints out of the other & into the mock-up to re-coup some investment & I'm going to request they balance the mock-up piece for free since 'their way' was ineffective.

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Yup me too. Putting it on the trailer and taking it to them is the only way I end up not doing it twice.

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I just went through it last month on my black 72. Still was not correct, but i sold it saturday. Told the guy all little things he needed to finish.

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I called them today & they said to bring it back & they'll see what can be done. He asked me how much it was off & I told him it was still about .500" too long. I did mention something about how using their 'method' didn't appear to be quite as 'exact' as they suggest....

I googled for some answers too. I went looking for the recommended depth the yoke should be on the trans output shaft splines & found it should be between .750~1.00" (I was figuring my dimensions @ 1").

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first thing i would ask would be if he do it under guarantee (no extra costs )

with Wat he told you so far over the phone i wouldn't be surprised if he stuck you with a 3th bill

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I paid the 2nd time because miscommunications can happen. Since they wanted it done one way but did it my way, I felt it was the right thing to do. Now that it was measured per their directions (w/pics on my cell for proof) & still incorrect, it will be on their dime for sure.

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make them put it in writing before you give them the driveshaft , so you have proof of the deal just to be sure .
i seen it happen that there was a price to pay after the job was redone and it was like "no money no driveshaft" ....... you did have all new bearings and stuff in there and allready payed for .

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I was going to post this yesterday, but I am in Italy for work and my internet connection ran out before I got that far...plus I was too worn out to log back in...

I was reading your "issues" with your drive shaft and was going to recommend that you not cut the splined end of the yoke off. if it is bottoming out, wouldn't it be hitting on the "yoke" part externally on the tailshaft seal and not internally inside the trans?

Sounds like you have gotten it worked out with the shop and hopefully you will be back on track.

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I had a little over .125" to work with. After measuring again for verification, it wouldn't have been worth the effort to machine the end of the yoke as I still would have been too long. Hopefully, they can trim an additional .500" off the new.2 shaft again w/o too much drama. I'm hoping he doesn't pop off about me measuring incorrectly..... the gloves will come off @ that moment.

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I had to pay twice.:waah: Did give me alittle break. Seems to happen a lot.:lol::lol: I wonder why.:lol:

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because they make more money doing it wrong