Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Following this thread very useful thank you!

I'm building a 1950 GMC 100 it's going on a 92 s10 SBRC with a shortened bed. No running boards, going to run side pipes instead. I want to use a stock 74 truck 454 and I'm trying to sorce a 5 speed manual. I didn't see any reference to BBC's. My truck had no floor left so I had to weld in new steel. I want it fairly low so I may have to tunnel the floor and set back some of the firewall. I used to be on this forum a long time ago guess I'll have to figure out how to add pics and stuff again.

Skymangs thank you for your effort, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles but glad you are on the road to recovery!

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

I didn't post anything on big blocks because I've never done one. I try to appeal to the majority, and all of my customers have wanted either a v6, SBC, or LS. the build should be the same though,save the motor mount placement. recovery is slowly progressing.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Where is the extra 2 inches in the gmc? I assume in the engine bay? Is the cab 2 inches farther back or the radiator farther forward? Everything says a gmc is 2 inches longer but I don't see where that extra length is on the actual trucks

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

its the engine. the GMC engine is 2 inches longer, and the radiator was mounted inside the core support, instead of behind it like a chevy, to allow for this extra length. the difference can be seen in the front engine crossmember, you cant put a chevy engine on a gmc crossmember.

otherwise the sheetmetal is the same, you can use GMC sheetmetal on a chevy and vice versa, as long as you have ALL the front end parts.

a big block uses the same mounts and mount distance as a sbc, so ideally if you set the mounts up for one it should clear the other.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Thank you very much that clears things up for me. I have always been a SBC guy so I never really done anything with a big block. But I have this 454 that runs good and figured old junk hot rod truck + old junk big block 454 = win

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Would it be of any benefit to cut s10 firewall out where pedals and master/booster mounts and weld it into the AD truck? As a note I personally want a manual trans so I'm going to need the clutch as well. Has anyone else went with a manual trans?

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Yea I swapped a manual in mine.

I used a 327 from my '67 camaro, ditched the powerglide and found a T-5 from an '85 camaro for cheap. I fabricated linkage to keep the original shifter and repurposed a hydraulic master cylinder/ throw out bearing from a different project that didn't happen.

I used the s10 brake booster and pedal bracket. I just drilled the firewall and didn't reinforce the it. Although I attached the pedal bracket to the steering column bracket for support.

I guess I should update my build thread.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

I do that in all of mine, I like welding in the "complex" holes that would be hard to duplicate, like the harness pass throughs.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4474/...e49c80a4_b.jpgIMG_6198 by Joe Doh, on Flickr


I am doing a 5 spd 41 this time and I think sometime next week I will build the pedal system.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Couple quick questions:. ( Remember, my first build. Appreciate all input.)

With the engine hanging in the truck, the pan is about 2.25" above the front crossmember. It really can't be lower, my v8 s10 conversion headers will hit the a arm on the pass side. The carb mounting surface is about 1* high in front, again, to clear the header. I can't raise the tranny anymore without raising the cab, it's pretty close to the floor at the tranny rear(1.5") and I have cut out all of the firewall that I want. I don't want to tunnel the whole cab. I could tunnel the middle where it dishes down under the seat, but that looks like the driveshaft won't have a lot of clearance at the back of the cab under weight. I would consider installing another 1/2" spacer on top of the cab mounts, if necessary. So, does this sound like I am in the ballpark of where I should be.

Second question:. I am about 4.25" off of the frame to the bottom of the floor, not mounting surface, the floor. Will I have problems lining up the fenders and hood with my radiator support with the 19"x22" radiator in it if I leave it here. I am working on the radiator support now. I know rasing the cab would fix all of this, but my dad is in a wheelchair and I need it to be low. Will not use airbags.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Building my radiator support, I noticed my 19x22" radiator is tight against the nuts welded on the inside of the uprights. The nuts have to stay to bolt to the fenders, right? I can spread tthe bottom a little to gain some room, but I may need to bend in the tanks a little to get it to fit without rubbing. Any other suggestions?

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Yes the nuts are to mount the fenders. Just use shorter bolts so they don't extend past the nuts. I may be lucky to have 1/8" between the bolts and radiator end caps. I had to center my radiator and triple check the spacing before welding my brackets to the end caps.... But it just fits.

As far as motor placement... Mine is set as low and as far forward as possible. My oil pan has about 1/2" clearance from the crossmember. I used the lower version of Sarge's cab mounts and had to adjust the rear position/height of the transmission to get it under the tunnel without modification.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Thanks 93blackgt for the response. That does help with engine height, apparently my headers are going to have to govern that. My radiator is just a little wider. I will find a way to make it work.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Sounds like the cab is set a little too low if you're having issues with header clearance. 4.25" is about as short as they come for clearance. I had a couple of pages in my build where I tried different heights and ended up settling on something like 5" from the top of the frame to the rail that supports the mount. Its a lot easier to change your mounts than it is to try and shift everything around to fit a lower cab.

If you're trying to get a low ride height, that is easier done with drop spindles than trying to lower all that sheet metal around the engine and trans. The S10 swap motor mounts are pretty much going to set the engine in place without much leeway on height or placement. Some of the builders on the forum do custom motor mounts to have more options.

On the bolts for the radiator, I just chopped mine off after seeing the same problem with a 19x22" radiator. There are so many other bolts holding the radiator and sheet metal on, I figure those ones are optional. I may go back and just install a couple short carriage bolt style ones from the radiator side with the flat head and tack weld them so they don't spin.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4456/...b244d8ed_c.jpg

http://www.mutualscrew.com/media/ima...Bolt%20220.jpg

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

That is good info. I am making Skymangs custom engine mounts. It gives me a lot of options. Good to know on the radiator surround. Thanks

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

speedysdad, throw away those headers and get some camaro rear dump manifolds. and if you must have headers, get some block huggers. try mocking your motor up with a chunk of 2x4 laying flat in the center of the crossmember, then put the oilpan on that. 13/4. now use a jackstand on the tailshaft, now make sure everything clears and wala! i've built them down to 2.5 inches off the frame (thats mount heigth not floor). and on the rad, just use a cutoff wheel to shave the bolts down.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

2x4 in place, headers will clear, raised the cab 5/8". Back on track. Welding in mounts tomorrow. Building Skymangs engine mounts and Hussy's trans mount.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

glad to hear it all worked out, i used those headers on my first build, swore i'd never use them again, just to many clearance issues

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Help needed with a few general questions in swapping '51 chassis with a 2001 S10. Can I use the S10 radiator, or will it be way to wide to fit? How about using the air conditioning? Can the S10 condenser and evaporator by fit into a '51? Thanks,

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

I did this on my 49. the rad is too wide to fit without modification but you can get it in exactly the right position to clear the power steering hoses and the hood. I used the s10 condenser too , but the evaporator and blower do not fit under the hood, its about 2 inches wide from fitting between the engine and the hood. instead I used a blower box from a 98 tahoe, it barely fit between the dash and the firewall and the vent distribution had to be removed (too wide) but the s10 controls controlled the fan and the blend door.

here is a couple pictures of the mods for the radiator. the s10 radiator mounts to some rings with a rubber grommet on the bottom and a simple clamp on top, you can see the rings in a couple pictures.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4531/...934e66bf_b.jpgIMG_3555 by Joe Doh, on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4572/...8d3211d9_b.jpgIMG_3556 by Joe Doh, on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4528/...1f441182_b.jpgIMG_3767 by Joe Doh, on Flickr

make sure you rebuild the lower air director to funnel the air ONLY through the condenser/rad, otherwise it will just take the path of least resistance UNDER the condenser/rad. I used a plastic material called kydex, its very flexible but also very strong, its like a thinner, stronger ABS. Its not available everywhere, we have a surplus store that always has a couple sheets.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Thanks for the reply and photos. Much appreciated. I will also explore what may be available to purchasing new to get into a smaller rad/condenser, but I now know this is an option. I'm sure I will have a million more questions. How about fitting the drive shaft...if the motor has to be moved back 8", does the front shaft get a section cut out? Not sure why they went with a 2 piece drive shaft on these trucks? Thanks

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

replace it with a one piece shaft, usually you can find one that is close in length, for example a longbed driveshaft is usually 64" overall and a reg cab colorado driveshaft is 54" long. when you factor in that lowering the rear makes the driveshaft shorter (lowering an s10 you usually shorten a driveshaft 1" to keep the yoke from cramming into the trans) so 54 is almost perfect.


measure your driveshaft to be sure, center of u joint to center of u joint. I dont recommend shortening the two piece because the front shaft will end up ~12" long and you will want to replace the carrier bearing while you are working on it, might as well just put that towards a one piece.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

As a guide if anyone is interested in what measurements you end up with using a 4 1/2" front cab mount and how it affects ride height and all the other measurements. Measurements are without any suspension modifications. The cab mount also has a 1/2" rubber mount on top for a total of 5" from top of frame to bottom of the cab cross member that contains the mount hole.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4522/...5c92eabd_c.jpg

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Thanks for posting the measurements. Is this the typical tire sizes guys are using front and back? Not that there's a standard, but what have you found works well for wheel sizes for a lowered look?

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Diagram doesn't have the front tire size I would go for, but that's what is on the car so I had to take measurements from there. I'll probably update the diagram when I get a new front tire. The rear ones are new and I did enough research of various builds that the average tire diameter is 29" for the front and rear. The size does fill the rear fender out fairly nicely and tucks in well for a lowered truck.

Tucked in with the right spacers and 2" drop spindles, 29"x8" front tires seems to be the consensus, but I haven't tried that myself yet to confirm that there is no rubbing.

Borrowed from a different thread:

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

i beg to differ, i have used two piece shafts and old carrier bearings many times and never had a problem i just shorten the front half, and it is NEVER anywhere near 12" long! works out nicely, cause you don't have to mess with moving the carrier bearing.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

looks like you are right, 12" would be much longer than the actual measurement. my comment was actually about cost, a rcsb driveshaft is $50-60 in a salvage, shortening a two piece would be double that and you would probably replace the carrier "while you were in there"

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Glad to see this thread is still active. My 14 year old son and I are currently working on a swap just like this have built cab mounts very similar to the design shown only using 4" square tubing (son actually did all the welding to assemble the mounts. have moved the motor into position and made mounts and are currently working on the core support.
All the info here is great look forward to getting this truck together and running. We are using the 4.3 vortec out of the 1998 s10 we purchased and using the 4L60E that was behind it. Also had a 2001 short bed we used as a frame donor stretched it to 116" as others have previously mentioned. The short bed had no engine or tranny when we purchased but did have the old tranny cross member in the bed which I was able to rework to act as a trans support and only had to drill 2 holes in the frame. Any suggestions for brake pedal since both our s10s have the huge aluminum casting assembly and they don't look like they would be easy to remove or rework for repurposing in the 48?

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

I had used the 4x4 tubing at 4 1/4". Worked a charm. I did cut a little notch from mine and glad I did. It barely clears the edge of the lower cab corner when lowering the cab onto them. Feel free to check out my project build for a core support mount.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4205/...67db5edf_c.jpg

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

That's how I made it work. I actually used one half of a 4wd drive shaft and the other was from a 2wd. I had to fabricate a bracket to set the carrier bearing back. It won't be my permanent solution but was able to make it work for free and right away.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

A drive shaft from a late '90's caprice or roadmaster will work fine using a V8 and 4L60 tranny if you want to go with one piece.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

I have made a big interface bracket on a couple trucks to use the 98-03 pedal bracket but I have changed my tune lately, its very heavy and needs a lot of reinforcing.

If you want a simple brake pedal setup, skymangs shows how to use a 82-93 s10 pedal bracket on page 2.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

this is a shortened 2 piece driveshaft, no where near 12" long with the original carrier bearing. we have been driving it for over 4 years now, so don't tell me it can't be done! cost about $100 to have a driveshaft shortened/balanced. i don't know about you, but i don't have time to go scrounging around a j/y every build.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

scrounging? I call them on the phone and say I need this driveshaft. the last one was 60 bucks and wasnt any more driving than it takes to go to the driveshaft shop, and I had it to install the same day. add to that, the 98+ longbeds came with a one piece shaft, so they dont even have a carrier bearing crossmember.

I can agree to disagree, but dang if it doesnt seem like your way is the "more money more work more time" way.

edit: and I am looking again, your trans is a TH350 which is shorter than the 4L60e in my picture.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Wow... More power to you. I took a look at the one in my 98 donor truck and knew within seconds it would be too much work. (Granted, making 82-93 pedals straddle the column to match the original spacing wasn't light in the fabrication department either)

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

I've also done 4L60's. 6 of one half dozen of the other, I'm just saying it can be done. and it's not the horrible headache you make it out to be.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

I didnt say it was impossible. I didnt say it couldnt be done. I didnt even say it was a headache. you said I said all that. but I didnt.

I said, and I am paraphrasing, "why bother with a two piece when you have such a short front section?". the reason for having a two piece, because the shaft is over 57" long, doesnt exist on a 53-55" shaft.

the cheapest carrier bearing is 32 bucks, the least expensive shop in my area to shorten a shaft is ITP and their cost this time last year was $124. thats ~$150, a rcsb s10 driveshaft is 50-60 dollars. THATS what I said. I even have the two piece as a tranny plug (what I usually do) or to sell on craigslist.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Since I am going with the one piece drive shaft route, it appears that I may need to take out the riveted crossmember (carrier bearing mount) out and move it underneath the frame and turn it upside down. I think I have seen others who have done that in their pics.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Thanks for the diagram Gigamanx, not 100% sure what motor you are going with Speedysdad, but if 5.3 vortec, rear dump camero headers that skymangs mention is the way to go. I tried a few different option and found that those fit best with the correct outlet direction giving a lot of room to wiggle the motor to its final destination. With those headers and skymangs designed motor mounts, my one piece driveshaft did not need the center support bearing mount modified or removed. Hope this helps, can provide a picture if you need one.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

you shouldnt need to do that, you can either just leave it as is and the driveshaft may not be very close (depending on how much you lower the truck) or you can just notch it a little to clear the driveshaft. you can plate it back it, or just leave it open.

its not a crucial crossmember and I say that because it is riveted to the bottom of a channel instead of tying the top and bottom of the channel as an important crossmember would (like the gas tank crossmember) or have the frame boxed in that area. the later longbeds dont even have that crossmember, but the inside of the frame rails are boxed on the 98+. I will stop short of saying completely remove it, but its not a beefy frame crossmember.

Re: S10 Swap how to
 

Meh, I removed mine completely. My tranny x-member is pretty heavy and makes up for it though.