Re: First Time Swapper
 

$3000 goes a long way at the strip club as long as it want in Vegas.
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

$3000 for an engine isn't terrible especially for the horsepower it would put out with this platform, but I'm on a much stricter budget. If you're looking for a bare 6.0L block there is one listed near me for only $250

http://delaware.craigslist.org/pts/3571323410.html

Re: First Time Swapper
 

The 6.0 at the top of the page looks like a decent deal to me. If it has a flexplate on it, one of those 4l80's you have found will bolt right up. 2 1/2 hours is a nice road trip for a saturday, good luck with it.

Re: First Time Swapper
 

That's not bad if he kept the mains numbered so they go back in the right place. You also have to keep the couple hundred in shipping if he knows how to ship it correctly. I've seen some pretty amateur palleting that causes more harm then good. There is a vendor on eBay that sells used blocks (cores) with all the machining except decking (bored and honed) for around $500 with $120 shipping if I pick it up at the depot. Doesn't have the covers or oil pan though. Depending on the front end crossmember you are using dictates the type of oil pan you use. If you go low it sounds like the F-Body is the way to go.
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

LOL WUT?

I hate to say it, but if you buy a NEW block, NEW complete L92s, and a NEW intake, you're gonna be way deeper into the engine than $3000. Way deeper.

What about the 90mm TB, fuel rails, injectors, oil pan, crank, rods, pistons, cam, valve covers, front and rear engine covers, valley cover, sensors, crank pulley, accessories (power steering, alternator, water pump), flexplate, starter, etc?

All that stuff adds up incredibly fast, especially if you're buying it all new.

My blazer build is a NEFA build (Not EVEN Fuggin Around) and my motor is built of all used stuff, including a junkyard LQ4.

A thrifty shopper can make stupid amounts of power for a relatively small outlay of money if you do your homework, and spend your money wisely.

Re: First Time Swapper
 

That's why I'm super excited I found the deal on this lq4. With a mild cam, l92 heads, and ls3 intake I should be getting significantly more power for used part prices and all of it will still be reliable. Granted that's all an eventuality and I know you can still swap parts on a 5.3L, but as the old mantra goes, no replacement for displacement. That's why the LS platform is so great. No need for aftermarket stuff to make decent street power, just swap from other ls's.

Also, I know where you're coming from and agree wasted income, but I believe thotfulspot was just talking about a new block and not brand new everything.

Any other thoughts on what to check for? Are the LS's really so reliable that I shouldn't be that worried unless something very obvious appears wrong?

Re: First Time Swapper
 

I understand that, however as someone who's been down the road a few times, it is always cheaper and less headache to start with a complete junkyard engine. That's why guys preach it so much.

Yes. Absolutely. I have bought and swapped 5 junkyard LS engines. As long as it was running fine when pulled, turns over fine, and has compression....it will run.

The first 5.3 I swapped sat in a barn for 5 years before I bought it. I did not take it apart after I got it...I simply stabbed it in the truck, and it fired up on the first shot. That same motor held up to a couple years of nitrous abuse with 150 hp hits, and then a few years of turbo abuse before it finally lifted the heads at the track (got greedy with the boost and timing with stock head bolts and graphite head gaskets). Still pushed my barge into the 11s with a hurt motor. That made a believer out of me.

Re: First Time Swapper
 

wow, well that's good enough for me. I may try to talk him down to $700 because of the cut van harness, but even if he won't take less than $750 I still think it's a bargain compared to everything else I'm seeing. Most junkyards around me are selling the 5.3s for closer to a grand.

As for replacing the harness, like you mentioned I definitely do not plan on getting a custom made one. I have no problem trimming the things I don't need and there just happens to be a harness up on CL now for $150. I'm hoping this one isn't a van harness too.

Re: First Time Swapper
 

I have 2 harness' one is cut at the ecm connecters and the other is complete. If it will work for you i'll let them both go for $125 shipped. You will have plenty of spare connecters. Let me know. They're for sale in the 67-72 truck parts section with pictures.
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

I have less than 3g's in my 6.0 80e swap
Motor tranny harness and puter 48000 mi pull out 1900$ delivered from aaa recycle dallas tx
Rewired harness my self 50$ lt1 swap directions
Puter tune 75$ wait for me performance
Camaro tank with truck pump local salvage 100$
Used hose ends from stock trucks in local salvage,borrowed double flare tool from auto zone to adapt to stock lines ends 5$ each and about 10$ brass fittings
Homade mounts with 1/4 plate and clam shells ,welder free used scrap metal
Drive shaft made 150$
Tranny mount made from scrap metal as well
Headders 4th gen camaro 200$
3 in exhaust kit and mufflers about 150$
Ofchorse i have some other goodies but that just the stuff you have to have!
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

Are the 4th Gen Camaro headers a direct swap or do they need modified? What brand and p/n are you running?

Wes

Re: First Time Swapper
 

That mostly depends on where you set the motor with your mounts. Because of my body drop i set mine low and the ds primary was just touching the lower control arm rather than dent it . I scotted the engine back some . I had to trim my frame alittle. But if installed right they work great and fall right between the frame rails. If you search project bruiser on this sight there is a good right up with pics on these hedders and camaro tank. Mine were from xscream performance off ebay.
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

Thanks Rob, I'll check them out.

Re: First Time Swapper
 

Are firewall mods needed for the 6.0?
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

you mean as far as engine placement? no

Re: First Time Swapper
 

4.8, 5.3, 5.7, 6.0, 6.2 and 7.0 all have the same form factor.

Re: First Time Swapper
 

Good to know about the camaro tank but I'll probably just use the stock behind the seat one.
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

What do you guys think? How hard to convert one to an ls from a SBC

http://delaware.craigslist.org/pts/3644491203.html

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/pts/3583323884.html
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

The 4L80 bolts up to a LS. You might find a better deal for a motor and trans pull. You'd have the wiring that way.
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

There are several different variations though. Technically speaking the 4l80 is a completely different trans than a 4l80e but I know what you mean. What I was referring to was the difference in bell housing bolts after 99 but I just found a site saying that they put early models on ls engines all the time and just don't use that extra top bolt.

As for buying a pair together... I doubt I'll find a better deal even if these are separate. Most 5.3s around here go for more that $750 so a 6.0 is a bargain.
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

I think you're confused, Billett. There is no such thing as a 4L80. Only a 4L80E.

I think you are thinking of how the 700R4 turned into the 4L60, and then with electronic control the 4L60E.

Re: First Time Swapper
 

Yes I was. I knew about the 4l60 but I thought there was a plain 4l80 also. Thank you for setting me straight.
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

There are four different versions of the 80 though. Differences are listed here

http://jakesperformance.com/site/mob..._FAQ.html#2997
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

One thing to note if you run a 80e with the 4th gen hedders you will have to cut an ear off the bell housing on the pass side. Its just a hunk of unused aluminum and a chop saw will make short work of it. One other thing to note if you modd the fire wall and set the enginee back with the length of the 80e your front u joint is about 4 inches away from your x member loop. And on a dropped truck even with the Aftermarket x member its tight and leaves little room when setting up pinion angles and tranny members
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

Sorry i ment saws all! Not chop saw
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

LOL, i was gonna say you are more talented than me if you can get that in a chop saw.

FWIW, I've cut that ear off of every 80 I've owned. PITA that gets in the way.

Re: First Time Swapper
 

Same here. Made a good piece of cast AL scrap, but thats about it.

Re: First Time Swapper
 

Bought the engine, but I won't be able to do much with it for a little while. Finals this week, and next week I'm going with the Mrs. to visit her grandparents in Florida. Once I get back it's on! Pics tomorrow

Re: First Time Swapper
 

Good deal. Congrats.

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Looks like a big mess right now, but I can't wait to tear into it and start really cleaning it up.

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/...ps727f05be.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/...psf3197e4b.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/...ps90d31e05.jpg

Also, my brother snagged this set of fans from work. Not sure 100% what year truck they are from, but I'm hoping I can get them to work without too much trouble.

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/...ps727f05be.jpg

Re: First Time Swapper
 

First of all, no idea why that last pic wasn't the right one. Here are the fans.
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/...ps58ff21bf.jpg

Secondly, couple questions while I'm waiting to get to work. I apologize as these may seem very basic, but I really appreciate the help.

1) To connect the 4L80E I won't need a spacer because I have the 01+ Lq4 correct?

2) I know you mentioned cutting off that ear depending on the headers I use, but what headers work well with these trucks for a budget price? I'd prefer a set of headers as opposed to manifolds, but would I be better off sticking with manifolds? I've look at the Doug Thorleys ones, but I'm not sure it's in the budget at the moment... Any of the F-body headers fit? I'm assuming it depends on what kind of engine mounts I use which leads me to number 3...

3) cheapest engine mounts. I've got the 350 in there now and I've seen the templates in the lsx faq thread. Is it really as simple as making a pair of these plates?
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ount_plate.jpg

I'd rather not spend $220 on the ECE ones. I'm sure the quality is fine, but these plates are well within my abilities to make.

4) When I picked up the engine he forgot the PCM at his house so I'll be getting that in the mail this week. However, he cut the harness as seen in pic 3 in the last post. I've heard that I can get the harness ends off of a 2nd gen s10. Anyone know if there's any truth to that? Would I be ok soldering some extra length to those cut ends when I go over the harness or would I be better off finding an uncut stock one and routing it where I need to?

5) How about a tune? I know speartech and blackbear do tunes, and I could go for the more expensive EFI live or HPT direction. I know it would be cheaper short run to get a tune from a shop, but when I'm spending $200 every time I need a re-tune it just seems like buying HPT would be much cheaper in the long run. Since the engine was from a van I'm assuming it already had a 4l80e behind it, but if not my brother works at a GM dealership so I think he can reflash it for me if I get in a jam. Biggest thing is, I'd like to learn to tune, but for the initial "get it up and running" all I really need to do is remove the VATS right?

Re: First Time Swapper
 

So many questions......:lol:
But here's a start. Since this is your first swap, I would suggest keeping it fairly simple, this way you are less likely to burn out and leave it unfinished and/or sell it at a loss.
That said, 1 yes, a 4l80e will bolt up to it since that's what it originally had. It would probably be best to find one that was originally bolted to an LS engine since there has been changes made in the wiring over the years.
2 Keep in mind that headers will probably interfere with your stock shift linkage. TBSS manifolds fit real well and on a stock engine flow good enough.
3 You can splice the PCM ends back on the harness, but it will be alot of work and leaves alot of places for simple mistakes to happen that can leave you pulling your hair out trying to track them down. For the cost of a truck harness, I would find a complete one and mod from there.
4 you can make your own adapter plates, all you are doing is making a way to bolt the original mounts to the engine. The original stands can be a problem with manifolds, so I would get a set of stands off of a 73-87 and use them with their matching mounts and clamshells.
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

The plates are easy to make,note you can also move the stand on the frame easy if you need more clearance, that ear is super easy to cut off and to me headders are worth it. Gen 4 hedders are by far the cheapest to find but take some massaging. They will work. Wait4meperformance will do a full tune for 75 bucks + 12$ shipping and its free reflash for life google them. I had no linkage issues with my gen 4 hedders. Also im running a 04 vette radiator off ebay for 100$ it has the tranny cooler and oil cooler built in. Just make brackets and mount it and camaro fans fit it with very little masaging
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

Almost any of the headers will hit the ear on the 4l80e, it only gets in the way, and probably 85% or more with the 4l80e will have it trimmed.

Not every van had a 4l80e, just so you know. The truly best option for a tune would be having a local tuner do it on a dyno with HPT or EFI. The email tunes are best-guess tunes based on what they are told your are running for equipment. They cannot take into account any x-factors, and the tune is somewhat "Canned". A tuner will unlock your PCM with the tuning program (once your pcm is "licensed" on hpt you don't need to pay to do that again). Then he can tune it on the dyno with a full tune, which will make more power and be far more dialed in than a mail order tune can. Plus, a good tuner will be glad to help with re-tune issues.

Buying HPT and learning to tune is cool, as you can start with a base tune from the support forums they have. I will say that its added pressure having to learn to tune the truck, as you do the swap etc at the same time. Seems like it could be frustrating if you got hung up on that part.

Re: First Time Swapper
 

I agree local dyno tune is better! I live 30 min from tsp and when i do cam swap ill have a dyno tune! Mail in will get you on the road tho
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

It's great to learn how to tune but do your research first and have someone experienced check you first couple tunes. I've seen some ugly results from people doing their own tunes on BMWs. They are more difficult since they are tuned pretty strong from the factory. A lot tougher than the LS motors, but when people start doing their own tunes for forced induction and end up with holes in pistons. Not trying to talk you out of it because it's nice to be able to do it on your own. An hour on a dyno with an experienced tuner will give you the biggest gain. You can make little tweaks after that.

I've got the BMW software and all I use it for is to change factory settings for windows and stuff like that. I have a local expert that does everything else for me.


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Re: First Time Swapper
 

I realize it is a large undertaking, but computer programming in general is second nature to me so I'm not that intimidated by the tuning itself. I have a friend that runs a company called SpeedCircuit that does parts and tunes for Mitsubishi Evo's so I'm going to talk to him about it. I'm wondering if he would be willing to let me buy the program myself so I can still mess with it whenever I want, but I'll pay him the shop hours for the initial tune and any problems I may have for him later down the road.

ls1nova, I've checked out your ls1tech build thread a ton. Very useful. THANK YOU!

No need to worry about me burning out. This is my DD and while it's down I'll have to drive my brothers honda civic. There is no better motivation than that. Good to know about the 4l80 wiring. Didn't realize they were different. TBSS manifolds may be where I'm heading right now unless I can find a set of 4th gen headers for around the same price. Trimming the frame or mounts a bit so they fit won't bother me. As for the harness, There's a complete one on CL I'm looking at, but I always like to have a backup plan so it's nice to know I can grab the ends from the junkyard if I get desperate. I looked into the engine stands a bit as well. Someone on here used those style stands with the dirty dingo slider mounts. Looks a lot easier, but for that price I can't do it. The stands and mounts though will be a breeze. There are plenty of those trucks in my local junkyard. I'll definitely need a new radiator, and overflow bottle for that matter haha and I'm hoping I can trim those fans to fit.

Re: First Time Swapper
 

Use your friend as much as possible. At least at the beginning. Doing a tune is not typical development. I wrote code for 20 years and tuning is making adjustments to the various sensors. I'm not trying to talk you out of it. It's actually a lot of fun seeing what happens when you make changes. A lot of people just jump into it without realizing what it involves. I would have someone do a baseline with a dyno. Play to your hearts content and after you are done put it on the dyno to see what the difference is.

There are a couple people on CL in Chicago that modify and build harnesses for a couple hundred. One of them is on LS1TECH. Might be worth checking out. The one person says he can build a harness that all you need is the start connection.
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

Haven't been on in a while but I did pick up a 4l80 from a 95 van. Also got the engine torn down but not cleaned yet. Well torn down as far as I want to go. Heads are off but the crank is staying in. Pics coming soon
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Re: First Time Swapper
 

Sweet! Are you changing the cam while you have it tore down? This is what I did to my 2013 L99 motor.....:D