Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

I think your tonka truck is making a break for it. haha

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

started knocking out fitting the plate on. ended up spending 1.5h trying to find what was off when i measured the wheelbase and it was off. turns out the frame and crossmember and true n square (<1/8" over the whole thing), i better placed the rear axle, and the front suspension that i never did an alignment on ... needs an alignment :lol:

tonight i hope to get the WATTs link in place, and maybe even the first set of bag mounts. once it can support it's own weight, then i'll drop on the body mounts. I'm pretty sure i want to get all the fish plates at least hard tacked in place before i drop the body on too. but my goal is still to have the body n front clip on the rolling chassis before the end of the Jan.

https://i.imgur.com/ylhv8IX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CfOZZE5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/w1ZC5kQ.jpg

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

:metal:

she won't get far, it's anything but fast or fuel efficient :lol:

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

got the Watt's back in place, feels good to have the rear axle fully constrained again.
started to assemble the bag mounts, and did a test fit of the fish plates. for a size comparison, i do NOT have small hands ;)

https://i.imgur.com/Kpa4pyT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/u7MqThN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pVxatOn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XjJ8mGJ.jpg

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Boom, roller

https://i.imgur.com/I7WzwJL.jpg

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Wow, nice!!!

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Lookin good. Gotta love it when the wheels go on.
Will you fab a link, cut to length or adjustable, to replace the air bag during the fab part of the build? Keep ride height the same and no burn holes in the rubber from flying weld spatter or grinding sparks?

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

I like where this is going. Keep up the good work

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

thanks ya'll!

currently no plans for a bag-simulate, but if i do it'll just be a 2x4 between the axle and frame. nothing fancy for that. when i was burning in more of the steering up front, i used an amazon box as a shield. didn't even catch fire! :lol: most of the time i'll probably just have the bags out on the shelf with the frame up on jack stands.

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

and after a minor adjustment last night to the watt's brace that i put in the wrong spot, she'll lay out. full drop, full lock-to-lock steering is still good. lots of frame clearance, but touch the steering box by THAT much :lol: ride height has 1/2" clearance, and the sheet metal won't let me steer that far at drop anyways.

i'm also reasonably impressed by the steering angle i'm getting out of the stock parts. this 35deg+ will be 1000x better than the old Ram chassis.

https://i.imgur.com/Fp6TT2l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2idO9YP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EBKwAl2.jpg

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Im freaking out, I'm so excited!! It freaking sits peeeerrrfect.

This is the point where i think progress get rougher and way less picture worthy ...

https://i.imgur.com/B06lnRv.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BkcO8We.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KeLV2xt.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/b4rXWAF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qBZXrRo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qpm29Dc.jpg

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Im really starting to like your build more and more. Wish I had the space and motivation to get mine going again. Also +1 for the King of the Hammers hoodie. I have my KOTH neck gator for when I have to walk into a store that is scared of the Controla Virus.

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

:metal:

i started out wearing only the free gators i got for test driving all the SxS's out in the desert. can't get enough of a crew together to go back this year, was a good time!

also, only buy hoodies on super sale as they dump all of last years stuff just prior to the next race. :lol:

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

nice drawing and fabrication skills, you doing all the drawing?

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Proud to say it's all me, thank you!

well ... the engineering, tube bending, and fab is. it's my buddy who has the CNC plasma table, and this wouldn't be happening like this without him.

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Great fab work. I like where this is headed. Those wheels are huge to be tucked. What is the dia. on the fronts?

Keep it up

Marc

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Thank you!

i'm always open to ideas, questions, or suggestions ya'll.

wheels are 17x6 but b/c dually, they are almost 8" back spacing. i do have a 2" wheel spacer in there though instead of the standard 4.5" dually spacer to help narrow it.

tires are General Grabber A/TX LT245/70R17 load range E. per TireRack they measure at 30.5" Dia, with a 9.8" section width, and 7.8" tread width.

the front should be less than an inch from the top inside of the fender, but the rear is where the problem comes in. for whatever reason, GM set the rear fenders lower on the bed. the damn body line doesn't even line up from the factory!! it's something like 2" lower, and i intend to raise the bed by that much to line things up and give me the extra height clearance in the back. it also gives me that much more depth inside the bed with the floor moved up over my rear axle. i hate sheet metal work, but i'll have to make a spacer to keep the step down at the rockers where they should be.

the cab clearance to the front tires at drop is ... "lacking" :lol: i'll at least fold the pinch seam over flat for a little more clearance, but i really hope to not have to notch the cab before i rub the fenders. i don't intend to drive around and try and steer that low, but i guess we'll see once i start driving it.

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

i helped a neighbor set up a cnc plasma after i was done with truk
could have done some wild stuff with that if i'd had back then :waah:

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

I'm not being critical just curious. 30.5" is not bad.

There are always compromises for laying out on big rims/tires (experience talking). You could always section the fenders to add over all height while maintaining the body lines.

Looks great

Marc

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Nice work man! Fabwork looks great, and if you're posting updates real time...you're hauling ass!

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

haha, thanks! we have no kids, and the wife just took a 2nd job giving vaccines. this leaves me with a few hours a night in the shop. i did a ton of prep work before i got the plate too, so everything was ready when that happened. now things slow back down as i go back to figuring it out as i go.

like front body mounts. the damn steering box ... one of the core support mounts ended up RIGHT in the middle of the box!

https://i.imgur.com/AyQXrh4.jpg

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Friday evening i got the front clip situated on there and got to making plans for how to move fwd with it. tire fitment was good but needed help and the core support mounts need re-done.

but it looks soooooo gooooood.

https://i.imgur.com/7lrY92c.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ETl5roE.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XE7Nu0g.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5KeNMXX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/42GzlMV.jpg

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

to anyone who thought i was going to be eating fender steering, you weren't wrong!

so straight on the tires tuck great, and obviously at full drop the sheet metal is going to limit my steering. however, i was more limited at ride than i expected so i need to go a little further than just a lip trim.

since every little bit counts, i started messing with a body lift. 1/4" didn't change much, and 1/2" you could tell there was significantly more under rocker gap, so she's now sitting with a 3/8" spacer on the body mounts.

next was the wheel spacers, could i pull them in even more? since the sheet metal is my steering limit at drop and i now know where that is, it looks like my current clearances will allow me to narrow it another 1/2" per side. so i have ordered some 1.5" wheel spacers that'll be here today. this should be a big change up there. enough of a change that it'll most likely require that i "tub" the inner wheel well.

then the fender trimming itself, i channeled my Jeep Cherokee Fender trimming experience from college when i did more than i can remember and got to it. the fender lip that sticks in has 3 sections to vs a full round. i trimmed 2/3 of that lip off at the outer bend line, leaving only a minor flange. then to the dismay of my forearm, i hammered that little seam up and out of the way. this rolled lip leaves the fender just as stiff as factory, with significantly more clearance, but also with a clean finished edge that's still painted and won't ever cut a tire.

finally i think i'm going to have to invest in an air management system with height sensors. that'll make sure i'm always at full ride when tooling around town, but also make it easy to lower for a softer ride on the highway. excuses for more toys ... aw shucks.

as it sits now without the new wheel spacers, i can now get my full hand between the tires and fender at steering lock at 8" ride. at 3" ride i still have enough steering to change lanes quickly on the highway, but never plan to drive it that low for more than a picture.

https://i.imgur.com/nLf1wHS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lSr2RvO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/f2biHnI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/f9p0we0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/cCwEKui.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HuofP90.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lE0hTGR.jpg

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

It's all looking really good. There are always compromises to laying out over big wheels. Most cant turn lock to lock..

Looking great.

Marc

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

I will need to do a little work on my front fenders as well. I plan to cut and move the lip out to match the room I need and weld in the required wedge of steel in the gap. it won't be much but enough to clear the tires with a wheel turned at full lock and the suspension run through a complete travel from full droop to full jounce. not gonna have any tire rub issues on mine and don't wanna lose the rigidity of the fender lip. thats just me though and mine will be a daily driver by whoever has the keys. it will be a boat tow machine in the summer and sometimes you just need that full lock to lock capability with no weird looks at the boat launch.
what about grafting in the wheel opening from a big truck fender? should be a few of those around that are in good shape. just a thought.

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

ever since you n brought it up page one, i've been looking for a set. only thing i've found is an entire dump truck 6400 for $3500 that is 4 hours away. if i could find a set, i would buy em for sure. worst case if/when i paint the whole thing.

unlike yours, mine will be 99% me driving it. 0.8% my wife driving it with me in it, 0.015% my wife by herself, and 0.005% my idiot friend who stole the keys and is about to get kicked in the nutz :lol:

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

just a note, the cut and fold i did had zero effect on fender rigidity. i tried hammering the middle out for even a touch more clearance, but i couldn't. i'll have to have it fully mounted and 2-hand a bigger hammer. the wife n myself lifting the front clip on and off, the only change is a narrower handle. i'd be more concerned about the cosmetics of the thinner lip than the structure for sure.

doing something like a 53 with less fender shape it probably would be less structure to lean on, but not on the 55.

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

nothing like hammering on these new vehicles. after sandblasting my rear fenders, i realized it had been hit across the drivers door, cab behind the door and into the rear fender. light scratch in door and cab, pretty good dent in the fender. gotta remember i drove this truck for 8 years and never notice this, well done filler work from the 70s. i worked for a couple days, with two short sledge hammers to straighten the lip out. the gtuys in the shop were happy when i finished hammering.

probably totaled whatever hit it :D

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

:lol: niiiice

all the really old bondo on mine is popping off. had to have been a work truck that someone tried to fix up, cuz it's on every panel over the whole thing. most is gone, the rest is just cracked and hanging on by an edge.

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

so amazon got me the wheel spacers next-freakin-day, and i got them on last night. looks like this helped, and i'm going to call this good enough to move on.

my justification:
- anything lower than ride is fender limited ... cuz form > function?!?!
- at 3" i have enough steering to probably drive a normal road.
- at 8+" ride i get full lock with bump clearance, and you only use that going slow anyways, so unless i'm parking in a ditch and articulated the clearance should be good.
-if i am parking in a ditch, i can just inflate the bag stiff enough that the front doesn't articulate.

Ride @ 8.5":
https://i.imgur.com/z1MRFPK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5dMKlo1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4ne5ZcQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qNAZXg7.jpg

full drop:
https://i.imgur.com/NovNcNf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/iGVKOXH.jpg

Ride @ 3"
https://i.imgur.com/b76yzN3.jpg

Rear isn't actually that wide vs the body for a dually.
https://i.imgur.com/bf2017b.jpg

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Looks great...You'll be fine this that. Besides style out weighs function..

Marc

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

Wow you do great work and fast! You said you plan lots then go and work, I do the same I plan wile at work then go home and work lol.
What is the reason for 4 bags at the back?
Nice YJ, my CJ5 was my first vehicle and I still have it.
You say you won't drive low but you will lol. In my GMC in traffic I air down to 1/2" off the ground and skate along, if I hit the gas or brake it touches the ground.
Glad you figured out your height without to much trouble.
You could just go by air pressure for ride height I find it works good.
Style does always win but sometimes function dictates.
This is my Jeep
Attachment 2077414

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

:metal: glad i'm not the only one to play on both sides of the lifted vs lowered fence. stock sux :lol: maybe i'll see ya on the trail some time.

so the 4 bags are kind of a try it and see for me, basically they are helper load bags that won't get used much. i chose these bags for the 2.8" min height (actually more like 3.5"), and the 600psi restrained max so i never had to worry about it. they are also small to deflate quicker than my last huge rolling sleeve. but the load rating was only a max of 3055lbs at 100psi.
well the rear axle has a load rating higher than that at 7500lbs. plus they would be at a load disadvantage being on the trailing arm. i'd get more load closer to the axle, more travel further away. then i started thinking about load vs spring rate, tuning on the fly, and how much better my current GMC 2500 is with the helper bags while towing. so i just designed it all in and we'll see if it was worth it :lol: bonus dream: what if i ever wanted to build a flat-bed to put the jeep on the back then tow the airstream?

while there is some form over function in this truck, i still plan to "daily it" (split with the jeep) and tow a 28ft, 10,000lb trailer often enough. jeep has to get to the trail somehow!! did i mention stock sux? ;)

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

I see, don't forget that that is 3055lbs for 1 bag, and air bags love weight. At ride height my rear is BOA and runs at 40psi is stiffer than my front at 120psi. Just some food for thought.

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

interesting, dually noted.

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

i updated my cost sheet with a "gearhead math" cost and an actual cost to build. the difference being basically all iterations of the project including anywhere i made/lost money changing plans.

i started with the '55 6400 ... was a survivor n i sold it for a +$2000 profit
then got this 3800 ... -$610 into it after selling the engine/trans and seat
parted out a 4th gen Camaro for a t56 that i later sold ... total part-out +$500 profit
was going to mate the t56 to the TDI from my Golf ... fuel savings paid for the car, sold for +$3000
a c10 chassis and built the IFS for V1.0, that i later sold ... parted it all down for +$250 profit
drove home the $500 YJ, fixed it ... traded straight up for the 96 cummins ram
parted down cummins ram ... -$400 into keeping the 12v n frame
built the ram chassis and sold it to build the new hotness ... lost -$750 on that

all-in I'm doing ok so far, neither number is hateful all things considered. i think i'm on track that once "fully functional" i'd be able to sell it for at least the actual (higher) cost.

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

with the body so low on the chassis ... the steering box, ended up right in the middle of the driver side core support body mount. add in the need for as big of a radiator as i can get, and the jungle gym steering, and i'm running out of room! only free space is under the frame really, and i need both body mounts and bumper mounts still. so i placed a body mount puck, and some small tabs where the bumper would be ... and started trying to connect it all to the frame. i'm not super happy with how this looks, it just seams overly complicated. but i'm starting to think that's only because i don't have all the BS i'm building around in there.


https://i.imgur.com/emTsvkW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/W0MR7Do.jpg

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

decided i hated it ... started over.

the core support mounts are now inverted, so they bolt to the bottom of the frame instead. i was trying to keep the core support sitting on them even with a loose bolt, but this is just going to be way cleaner. the core support is basically flat against the front of the frame, so the lower plate will weld to it.

the bumper is also a completely separate mount now and should provide a little more protection. still need to figure out a better diagonal support thought. that might need to wait until it's built since i don't have the C30 crossmember modeled.

https://i.imgur.com/x3lVXuG.jpg

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

V2 looks good...much simpler and I agree with isolating the bumper from the core support mounts. :metal:

Re: Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)
 

detailed some more 3D n got a little more plate ordered Saturday from my buddy, can't wait to have the the front clip mounted. also spent Saturday replacing the ENTIRE power steering, pump and all the lines even up to the hydroboost, in my 2500. freaking blew out the ONE day my wife drove it to work, and it was our anniversary. none of the crazy rusty lines blew, was a new chinesium hose from the new cooler last year ... WTF!?! whatever, all new now.

Sunday i managed to get a little done even while trying to cut my finger off. while removing the bits of the factory dash support that were in the way of the new pedal assembly, i managed to GASH my finger on some grinder flash. one of those super deep, you felt it go that deep, and you are rushing to wash it really good before the nerve endings catch up n it hurts. but got that all cut out and clearanced!

so i got the Helix pedal firewall assembly and it's really nice, but sux. the dash side mounting plate is way off at the wrong angle and almost an inch too long. tech support said it was designed for the cars, but "should also work in the the truck". well i'm debating between cutting it up or returning it for the CPP.

also chopped the seat frame out of the yukon bench, no going back now! i had it latched while i was cutting and it stayed together well, so i'm now 100% convinced that once bolted to the floor it'll be great. just more attention to lining it all up than GM would have done in a factory.

https://i.imgur.com/Hb72yF6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/O55l5DL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sXz4cIt.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9kJWOhJ.jpg