Welding is also very harmful for your lungs if you are not careful. I would definately suggest welding as little as possible with flux core and other very smoky welding such as galvanized....I worry every time i pick up a torch or a welder as i have already gone through 2 lung surgeries. (unrelated to chemicals) but i know what kind of pain it can cause and lungs are too valuable to mess up for any reason.

P.S.- If you smoke....dont!!! I can tell you first hand what it feels like to have suction tubes hangin out of your body for a week....

Please everyone take care of your lungs... they are important

While we are on the topic of airborne danger don't forget to mention sand.
If you are using it as a blasting media at home use a suitable respirator !
Silica dust is bad news.

Hey there Slammed66 i just noticed that you are only an hours drive away from me. I forgot all about scottssupertrucks, i just bought a 72 gmc and will be restoring it this winter. Are the parts that you sell salvaged or manufactured? I'm going to need a lot of parts.

Matt

I hate to burst you guys bubble but there is isocyanates in EVERY THING THAT HAS A HARDNER OR CATALIYST TO MAKE IT CURE. That means you should were a supplied air system even when mixing fillers or fibreglass resin. They told me in autobody school that the most iso's are present when you are mixing paint or filler but you should always were a supplied air mask when spraying not a charcol filter like some people think because WILL NOT FILTER OUT THE ISO'S. On another note they also said prolonged exposer to the fumes from welding galvanized metal can cause alzheimers disease.So you should use the pink 3M resperator cartriges on your mask when welding.

Thanks trixter. looks like im screwed!!


I think Im gonna take up bingo now!

Saying that ANYTHING that has a hardner or catalyst in it ALSO has isocynates is incorrect. This is just like saying that every aerosol can has cloro-flourocarbons (cfc) that damage the ozone layer........UNTRUE, but the general public believes it because they are too lazy to get actual FACTS. For example, the epoxy primer that I use does not have isocyanates, but it does have other products that may be equally as dangerous.

I do not want to pick on trixter99...BUT his statement is NOT accurate.

Also, while it is true that a PROPERLY FITTED supplied air mask/system is best, a proper filter/CHARCOAL filter combo will protect you as well. Most of the members here will not get a fresh air system because of the cost...the 3M setup that I listed in a prior post is strongly recommended.


AND..there has been NO more of a proven link between galv. fumes and Alzheimers then there has been between eating too much cheese and Alzheimers. While it is true that ALL fumes emmitted while welding are harmful to your health, there is no need to add to the confusion. Whomever told you that is also misinformed.

Arm yourself with actual facts and do not be confused by rumor....BUT by all means PROTECT YOURSELF as best you can.

After working in shops for 30 plus years, I've paid a high price for my carelessness and stupidity. I've had carbon monoxide poisioning, zinc poisioning from welding galvanized steel, breathed a ton of asbestoes and chemical fumes, absorbed who knows how much solvent and other toxic chemicals through my skin, and lost the ability to hear certain frequencies. I'll probably die before I ever get the chance to retire someday.
You younger guys, PLEASE pay attention and work safely. You only have one life. Don't waste it.

A charcol mask will not protect you as well if it did there would be no need for fresh air systems ask your paint rep if you don't believe me or phone the paint companies tech line they'll set it straight for you.

a few websites that will help keep you informed I was a HAZMAT technician with FD for 14 years and chemicals are nothing to be sneezed at.

respirators: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topic.../respfact.html

reapirator cleaning:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/respcln.html

chemical name lookup also tells what is recommended as safety gear:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0000.html

eye safety:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/eyesafe.html

hearung:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/nois...rotection.html
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/nois...undadvice.html
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/noise/faq/faq.html

isocyanates:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/asthma.html
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/90101_53.html
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/isocyanates/index.html
http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ohb/HESIS/iso.htm

metalworking fluids:
http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/metalworkingfluids/

organic solvents:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/organsolv/

silica:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/02-129A.html
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/92-102.html

take home toxins dont be fooled we do take stuff home with us:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/thttext.html

this is a small list of stuff that I hope everyone reads and does some research on the more we know the better protected we are

Doc

Is this the Respirator that you use for welding Sevt_????

http://www.autotoolmart.com/cgi-bin/...456&p_catid=58

and it fits under a regular welding helmet? - I have a Miller Elite Auto Helmet...it is pretty big but I just want to make sure that this will fit under it

THAT is the mask I wear...almost! The difference is mine is the newer model PRO style mask. The pro model is dark blue in color and is made of a softer plastic that conforms to the face much better.
That mask in the picture will work just fine, I used that one before the PRO model came out. They are the same size and use the same filter, just the pro model conforms better.

As stated before the pro model is dark blue in color, all others are light gray(as shown in pic)

thats the one I use as well!
I may go purchase the newer model tho

That's the one that I use for welding

Where can I find a dealer that will let me try one one so i know what size to get? will a regular 3m Paint/Body Supply shop have them and let me try one on?

you can get them on the net and such..but obviosly can't try them on for proper fitment - as seems to be very important in the effectiveness of any respirator

Slammed, I am glad you found about employers early in life, they will use you and throw you away. I have been in the same position with the " promises" and onan on..................never did one come true..............I even had a guy who couldn't afford his bills so he couldn't give insurance or raises or holi8days etc. He turned around and offered to let me buy into the business!!! HA!!! I guess you know the answer.
I have had a serious back injury on job and ended up getting canned when I refused to take the warning: "yuou better put this on your insurance! We can't afford an on the job accident claim!"

Look out for yourself always! Your boss ( 99% of the time) could give a s***!

Recently I bought a supplied hood from Granger. URL Granger.com. Item number is 6AT82. Cost was $18.89. I also bought a 25 foot length of sump pump hose from Granger for about $5.00. I connected two sections of shop vac wands using duct tape to the back of the hood. To this I connected the sump pump hose. This is connected to a small 8-10 CFM diafram pump that is located outside the garage when I paint. The hood has a collar that inflates and seals out the paint fumes. This works really well and was cheap. Possibly you could use a shop vac to supply the air. I use this rig to spray two part enamel, base coat and clear coat. I went this route because a reresperator always leaked because of my beard.
Don Brace MN

Good info Don!! I am looking into it. If I follow you, the hood must vent out the pumped in air and the exhaled breath. So what you are saying is use the out side of a vaccuum cleaner to deliver the air?? I am not sure if my Sears has that option?? I will have to take a look.

Wolfthing2000
That is correct. If you use a shop vac for the air source, connect the outlet side of the vac to the inlet of the hood. Some vacs do not have a fitting on the outlet so they will not work. My one horse only has a screen but my three horse has a place to hook the hose. This is so it can be used to blow stuff off. If your vac supplies too much air you will need to vent some of the air by putting a hole in the hose. This should be near the vac not where you are painting. The positive pressure in the hood causes the hood to inflate and also exhausts the exhaled breath out the vent.
Don Brace MN

I have attached two pictures of the rig I use as a supplied air hood and one of the the 71 Longhorn I am working on.
Don Brace MN
http://webpages.charter.net/trainsntoys/mask1.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/trainsntoys/mask2.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/trainsntoys/mask3.jpg

Man this thread is depressing, but filled with lots of excellent info. Something only one other person brought up was a suit. Iso's will absorb through your skin so just having a fresh air mask is really not enough because you are still exposed. I have been painting for 15 years and have done a bunch of stupid things in my youth as well. I used to never where a mask when painting laquers or non catalized paints. Now I have a slight nervous twitch and I used to be steady as a rock. Lot of great information about respirators here but don't forget about the suits.

Mike

For my current job, I have Plenty of fresh air pumping in and out of the garage. Also, I figured two is better than one and hve attached two filter cartridges on each side of the mask. I screwed in one, then taped(well) the second on top of the first. Worked excellent and not one hint of fumes or anything. In between coats, I exit the work space and wait outside.

Re: What the hell happened?
 

Something to note about proper fitment of your respirator:
When checking fit, remove filters and lightly seal filter holes with the palms of your hands. If you push too hard it may give you a false seal. With the filter holes plugged you should not be able to draw ANY air in. You should move your head up and down and side to side to make sure the respirator maintains a seal. There are several diff sizes and styles to fit diff shape faces. Get one that fits you. Also when putting your resp. on, give a sharp exhale to clear the exhilation ports. Don't wear your resp. too lose or not only will it be ineffective, but it traps gasses. Examine the exh. ports regularly and replace mask when any damage or wear is seen. Replace cartridges often. They are cheap insurance against long term health problems! Keep facial hair trimmed to maintain a good seal. There are different filters/cartridges for diff. chemicals and particulates. Be sure you use the right filter for the job you're doing.
If you're not using bottled air on a supplied air system, rig a filter element over the air intake hose, in addition to having the unit outside your shop area.

Re: What the hell happened?
 

Same thing happened to my ex-brother in law but he was spraying some sort of clear coat.Now if he just gets a whiff of auto paint he gets ill.Even if you don't get sick your still poisoning your liver think about that.

Re: What the hell happened?
 

Makes a guy think I never wear any thing unless i paint an entire vehicle, I've had it where people can't even stand to come into my garage because of fumes and i don't even notice it. I've probably done a lot of damage almost makes a person wish they could go back in time and not be so stupid.:crazy:

Re: What the hell happened?
 

I always wonder what's wrong with those guys on American HotRod (not just for this reason) who will be painting in the booth with a charcoal filter--granted it is a nice filter, but why not use supplied air and have no variables? At Junior college, we were required to wear a full suit and hood when we were in the paint booth, or else we flunked the assignment we were working on.

We were also reminded of the old adage:
"When was the last time you met an old body man?"

Not often....

Re: What the hell happened?
 

i just got outta auto school.............and my instructor definitely said the samething.....there are no old painters.......one of my instructors had problems with his nervous system cause for 12yrs he painted without a mask...which was about 20 yes ago but damn!!! i'm painter at an autobody shop and i wear a natural air suit and i always will....unless i'm using water-based paint which will be the future in paint!!!!!!!

Re: What the hell happened?
 

Isocyanates will saturate the filters on a mask and go through anyway, you smell a sweet smell run like hell. Always have a ton of air movement; your mask is your LAST line of defense! That Sh*t WILL kill you! I've got a can of acrylic urethane for my truck w/ the isocyanates hardener, I'm planning to shoot outside, with fans, and I've got a full face mask.

Re: What the hell happened?
 

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...TOOL&ihtoken=1

You will need a big faced helmet or have to modify yours to get it to fit. Don't just cut it but fab it to fit under the plastic mask. Use some black RTV to seal the seams. I did this to mine and get the big mask under it. I used the bottom of a cheap $20 mask to extend the bottom of my Nextgen

Re: What the hell happened?
 

That mask isn't a welding mask is it?

Brian

Re: What the hell happened?
 

I figured my life is worth more than a filter cartridge, and splurged on a HobbyAir I with the half mask, hood, and a full suit. I plan on painting more than just the 68 or the motorcycles (already did Momma's motorcycle this weekend), so the cost was justified to me.

Also, fourteen years in the fire service kinda drilled me into breathing clean air when in a contaminated environment. :D

Re: What the hell happened?
 

Hey guys just another thought to look at a lot of paints can also have chemicals that are absorbed through the skin you should also wear a protective paint suit. I learned this the hard way years ago.

Re: What the hell happened?
 

I have painted for years and have used the fresh air system,if you really love to paint you should get one at any cost.I have had mine 18 years and it still works fine,just make sure you install the pump in a area that is in fresh air only and change filters on pump, and try to use a gravity fed gun it uses a small amount of air pressure and plus will save you money in paint,[ less overspray] goodluck in the future.

Re: What the hell happened?
 

Im have been a custom painter for over ten years and wearing a paint suit helps but you need earplugs and either a full hood or something breathable for your eyes. POR-15 doesnt have iso-cyanates in it. The only time there is that stuff is if you add a hardener to it. The other thing nobody has mentioned is when your done using your 3M mask is to put it in a sealed bag. It keeps filtering unless you seal it off.
On a side note, take two Vitamin E tablets one hour before painting to help your body remove anything it absorbes when painting.

Re: What the hell happened?
 

My .02,
Air purifying resperators (APR) only filter contaminates out of the air. You should be able to smell, taste, or feel eye iritation (warning property) at a very low exposure to the chemical that is not dangerous to your health to use one. This is how you know that your filter has breakthrough and should be replaced.(prior to being exposed to high dosage that could be harmful)
Most filters are to be used for one shift of work and then disposed of. Is it worth the few dollars you save to reuse them?
A garage without proper ventilation becomes a confined space once you start spraying. There is no longer enough oxygen in the air to filter it, even if you are wearing proper mask and filters.
This is where suplied air comes into use. Proper ventilation is very important because you can also create a fire hazard by trapping fumes.
You are the only one who can protect yourself. Make good decisions for yourself and your loved ones.
Good thread bringing saftey awareness to others.

Play safe guys

Re: What the hell happened?
 

man... this sucks. the 3m website has a web program that will show you the appropiate mask to use for any chemical and work conditions. hope this helps.

time to check if im using the right mask!!!

I have some brown spots (puss) under my finger tips. my finger tips are cracking and peeling. I think it may be from getting body filler or something on my skin. It sucks cause its my first shot at DIY auto painting!

Re: What the hell happened?
 

Link For Respirator Selection

I used the MSDS Sheet for my Primer type and Basecoat

Re: What the hell happened?
 

Great post I had a hobby air 2 with the hood. Did not care for it just sold it and bought a SAS system with the full face mask. Alot nicer for the couple 100 extra.But the hobby air is ok for the price and if not going to use it alot.I had probs with it overheating.Alot will say that these systems cost to much. I paid 680.00 for mine. Thats cheaper than haveing to go to the ER or the hospital for lung probs.

Re: What the hell happened?
 

I read through this thread and one thing to make clear is make sure you have the Volitile Organic Compound (VOC) type filters. Most, if not all, masks come with HEPA filters which only are rated for dusts only. Most VOC type filters have black labes (some have black and pink which are a HEPA VOC combo filter). If your filters are blue or pink they are most likey just HEPA only.

If you are working in an enclosed environment you must use a supplied air system. A mask even with VOC type filters will not provide you with enough breathable air when the enclosed area becomes saturated with the overspay vapors.

Sonny

Re: What the hell happened?
 

Can somebody post 3M part numbers for a welding setup?

Re: What the hell happened?
 

hello all- I know this is an old thread, but I just had a bad experience with urethane paint and need some information

I have my old Pontiac car apart, and wanted to put a flat black rat rod paint job on it. I purchased Eastwood rat rod flat black urethane paint w/catalyst. Also have a 6200 3M respirator mask, so went out and bought brand new charcoal filters and prefilters from Lowe's for the mask.

I spoke to 3M reps by phone and email, inquiring if their half mask/cartridges would protect against urethane iso's- they said yes, using the 6001 organic vapor cartridge with P95 particulate prefilters- so that's what I got. They also said break down the job into pieces, and spray it outside- so that's what I did. Removed hood, trunk lid, doors, rear valance from car. I was doing this anyway to sandblast to bare metal the entire car, and get rust off backsides, jambs, bottoms of panels. I etch primed, then epoxy sealed the entire car and parts- all undercoat/precoat/primer spraying was done outside with 3M respirator and new cartridges I had at home unopened, 6001 OV w/prefilters.

For the urethane, I opened and installed the brand new 3M cartridges from Lowe's- and that was also done outside. All painting was done with respirator on, from the time I opened paint can, until I walked to my car- then I took my mask off.

First day I painted undersides of removed panels with urethane.

Second day flipped panels over, painted topsides with urethane.

Third day, pulled car outside, masked off glass, and painted front fenders, rear quarter, roof, front bumper, and rear tail panel around tail lights.

I got done with car, backed it back into garage, got out and was walking to fuse box panel to shut off compressor, when I got very lightheaded and dizzy. My respirator was still on. Shut off compressor, ran outside, took mask off and started feeling a little better- got in my car, drove about 10 miles, stopped for gas and coffee, it hit me again- very dizzy. It seemed to subside when I drank or ate anything, but still was lightheaded.

Next day my throat and chest was sore, like a dull burning sensation that comes and goes, and similar to heartburn or gas in my chest. Also at night I wake up for no reason, and in mornings have some phlegm in my throat.

I seem to be improving over time, it's been 4 days since the incident, but has anyone else had these symptoms, if so how long is this going to last ?

Recently I did a lot of research, had the MSDS sheets faxed to me, and the sheets state use a supplied air mask, and only use a charcoal mask with plenty of ventilation and no longer than one hour.

Well I was painting all together over the 3 days for over an hour, maybe 1 hour 15 minutes, at the most 90 minutes. It sounds like the new charcoal filters "give up" on iso's after only a short time. And in between painting I was storing the mask double bagged in plastic zip lock bags to preserve it. As of today, the charcoal filters are only one week old !

Like OP said here, what the hell happened ?

I called and emailed 3M and they insisted the mask should last for many days before breakthrough of iso's. I told them it did not, and recommending that mask for iso's is borderline criminal negligence, somebody could have gotten hurt- good thing I was outside painting, and not inside.

I also looked around on the net and found that many vendors selling 3M masks, state right in their ads "not for urethane paints" for the same mask that 3M told me would work.

Why the contradicting information from 3M ? Are they just protecting market share for their product ?

Any help or advice appreciated, thanks. I've been painting cars as hobby now for about 25 years. Never had this bad experience with catalyzed SE or AE paints.

this urethane is NASTY stuff- as I'm keying this now, my chest hurts noticeably- not excruciating, but it's there. I just hope this goes away eventually. I read somewhere else where a kid who painted with urethane, said his lungs burned for 3 months afterwards.