Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

I havent wired mine up yet, but I bought the tci lockup kit and it cam with the pug in that youre referring to.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

this is the one I bought

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TC...0/?image=large

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Dusty, the reason you haven't seen any other cases mentioned here, is because this thread is about a 700R4 with a NP205. I'm not sure about a 208, the dims are probably different, and either way you'll have to make driveshaft modifications and others to accomodate.

Guys, is the Lock-Up kit necessary for the 700R4? I was under the impression that you didn't need to run it. Is it just for manual lock up? from the guys using them or planning to use them, what's the benefit?

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Yes, it is necessary, you'll burn up the trans if you don't lock up the TC- either manual or automatic. Benefits are there too- gas mileage, etc. There is quite a bit of info on the web about this. The other thing that is very important is making sure you have the proper TV linkage and that is is adjusted properly. From what I have learned, if you get these 2 things right you'll love the swap, don't and you are in for some headaches.

Sorry, I didn't realize this thread was specific to the 205 t-case- the title only specifies the trans swap.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Yeah, I've heard that about the TV cable, I think it was mentioned by another member earlier in the thread, but I was not aware of the TCC Lockup being needed. It makes sense that you'd want it to lock-up on the highway, when you're not shifing through the gears to keep it cool, and reduce the RPMs. Anyone have experience with the Bowtie Overdrives kit below:

http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata...php?ITEMID=332

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Looks similar to the one posted above by Wildstreak...$20 more expensive, however.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

You do not need the lockup, I made my grand national lock when it hit second gear on up through the gears , it was awesome felt like a speed shift of a 4spd!! I ran kennebell cam ported heads big turbo and monster injectors it required a art carr torque convertor but man did people say wow when the first couple shifts hit!!! sorry i got off track but point is do what you want just know a convertor in non lockup creates a lot more heat than a locked one and that heat is wasted energy!!

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

from what I was told from every mechanic I talked to, the two main failure issues with the 700r4 are cause by the T.V cable and the lock up not working properly or not being hooked up properly. But thats just what Ive heard. I dont have much personal experience with them tho.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

x2

From what I understand it will work without lockup, but not for long...

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Good points. After some research, looks like the difference in the two kits (TCI vs. Bowtie Overdrives) is that the Bowtie kit includes a new brake switch, as well as the internal wiring kit for the 700R4. I think I'm going to order the TCI kit, hopefully that will be sufficient.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

The TCI one is what I run.
I did have a problem with the diaphram switch(black box in pic.), I've since bypassed it and now manually engage the lock-up of the Torque converter, via a switch.

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/80...890-376600.jpg

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Well, I wasn't aware that Painless had a kit until earlier today, but I went ahead and bought this one from them, because my friend has a sponsorship with them on his car, and they've always treated him well. I spoke with one of the tech guys over there this afternoon, and decided to go that route. A little more expensive, but I'm sure like everything they build, it will be good quality..

http://www.painlessperformance.com/w...ject+Object%5D

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

I have a 700R4 and a NP205 behind my 454 in my 68 K-30I moved the crossmember and the transfer case frame mount back 5/8", redrilled afew holes and that was it. There was enough travel in the splines the make up the difference, I have a 14 bolt rear and a non-standard driveshaft in the front, but it was an easy swap. The TV cable adjustment is critical and was a little tricky on the big block,after market tv bracket and som engineering but it works, the lockup is real easy, find a 1984 or 1985 Chevy truck or suburban and get the vacuum switch that is mounted by the brak booster, the brake switch under the dash and the plug on the trans and find a schematic for the 85 truck, real simple install and it works great.

Hope this helps
Bill

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

In my last post I forgot to mention that I also installed the Advanced adaptors shorter output shaft.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

That makes more sense, thanks. Almost done with this swap, just waiting on the lock-up wiring, which should be here today, and have to install/adjust the TV cable. I really don't like projects like this, under the vehicle, crap falling in your face. Be glad to have this one finished up. Pictures to come..

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

me too, when I can, Im just going to trailer it to a mechanic to adjust the tv cable properly. Ive heard it was really hard to do. But if you do it and its not so bad I might giver er a try :P

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

I don't know, because I don't have experience with it yet, but I would suspect that it's a matter of knowing what the distance of travel is for the cable that pulls the plunger, and making sure that at WOT that amount of travel is achieved. I was planning on measuring the travel in the cable, then setting the distance on the throttle side to match. I think that would get me in the right area, then it's probably just a matter of test driving/adjusting. The TV cable has a good bit of adjustment on it by depressing the D-shaped button on the side. Someone chime in if I'm way off on this..

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

What are you using to connect the cable to the carb, this has to be specific too, like in this picture...
Attachment 537571

Here are a few links that I have bookmarked on this...

http://www.purplesagetradingpost.com...o/700R4p1.html
http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Inst...ble_adjust.htm
http://www.cpttransmission.com/tech_tvcable.htm

Happy reading:o

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Here is some more info & a linkage kit that's supposed to make it easy, kinda pricey.... not sure if I'll go this route when I get around to doing this swap, depends on how much $$$$ I have to spend..

http://www.tvmadeez.com/

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Took this quote from:http://www.cpttransmission.com/tech_tvcable.htm


WARNING: PERMANENT DAMAGE WILL OCCUR IF THE T.V. CABLE IS NOT ADJUSTED OR HOOKED UP.

THE DAMAGE WILL OCCUR WITHIN A FEW FEET OF DRIVING THE VEHICLE!

Does anyone think is a little extreme? How would they expect you to road test a vehicle and check shift points if you cannot drive more than a few feet?

Anyways, anyone thought of using this:

http://www.tciauto.com/Products/GM/gm_4L60E.asp

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Looks like that would save alot of headaches!

I want to eventually do this swap (700r4). I would also like to someday upgrade to fuel injection. I'm starting to think that they should be done at the same time- the money saved on the linkage & lock-up kit will go a long way toward buying a used TPI setup off of ebay. I'm not trying to thread jack here but anyone considering doing both swaps should consider this... Any thoughts??

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Dusty,

I'm fuel injected, running a standard GM TBI factory style injection setup, so my linkage is just like what you posted above. The measurements may help. I may make up a cardboard template or something and try to use it to measure up behind. So far, I just pushed in the D-Shaped button, and pulled out the adjustment so that when I have WOT, the cable is maxed out (plunger all the way in on the tranny). Haven't tested it yet, everything is ready minus putting transmission fluid in (need a new dipstick, just found out that the TH350 one will not work).

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Yeah, your life is alot easier because of that.. do you have the computer controlling the torque converter lock up?
Who did you have reprogram your computer? did you use all stock wiring, etc?

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

I had the computer chip flashed by Affordable Fuel Injection, and purchased a TBI harness from them also. I would have re-used the stock engine harness that I bought with the TBI unit, but it was pretty thrashed, so rather than re-build it, I just bought a plug and play from them. The lockup isn't computer controlled, it's a stand alone harness that I bought from Painless. The 4th gear solenoid is vacuum controlled, and it also comes with a new brake switch with 4 terminals to control the lock-up as well. I've heard good things about it. P/N 60109, link above..

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Sounds like a sweet set-up, thanks for sharing your info- I don't know what way I'll end up going but I know that Fuel injection is in the plans somewhere! Maybe I'll have to steal the TBI off of my Sub :devil:

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

I've always adjusted the kickdown where the end of it's range is the end of the range of the throttle cable's travel. It's always worked well for me.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Well, I got everything buttoned up, and took it for some test drives (short, 2 miles max) trying to get the TV cable set up correctly. The first few, I had the tension set too strong, in other words, a shorter cable, and the 1-2 shift was too hard and at too high an RPM ~2,500. The 2-3 shift felt good, and the 3-4 shift felt good but I thought it was too aggressive so I adjusted again.

I tried both methods described online, maxing out the cable adjustment (pulling toward the TBI), and then shortening with WOT, as well as minimizing the adjustment (pushing toward the transmission), and then letting the TV cable 'ratchet' out under WOT and both forms of adjustment netted me the same length of cable, which transitioned into soft shifting from 1-2 and 2-3, however, from 3-4 under this adjustment the transmission shifts into gear, then clunks.

My thought is that I either don't have the TV cable adjusted correctlly, I have the wrong length TV cable, or the custom bracket that I made has improper geometry. I think that I need to measure a stock vehicle to get the length between the throttle shaft center of the TBI, and the plate that the TV mounts to. I'm not sure if that geometry affects the TV, and I figured that it was adjustable for that very reason however I'm not comfortable driving it until I get it worked out.

Anyone have 'stock' measurements of the distance from the TBI throttle shaft center pin and the front of the TV plate? Any other thoughts?

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Bigdump - I found a shift indicator that has D-3-2-1 at classicparts.com.

http://www.classicparts.com/1971-72-...info/91%2D357/

Question for anyone using the Advance Adapter output shaft (i.e. no spacer) - does the 700r4 trans pan interfere with the front driveshaft where it exits the transfercase? Also what are you running for headers if you moved the engine forward?

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

The pan comes close (within ~ 1/4") but doesn't interfere. It does unfortunately preclude your ability to use a deep aluminum trans pan.

If you move the engine forward you can use Camaro or early G-Body headers. These work great with an auto trans. The passenger side gets tight with the transfer case but you can route the exhaust up and over the case.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Perfect thanks for the response - your chassis look sweet btw. Mine's in the "before" stage and hope it will look like yours once completed.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

71, Thanks for the link. I have some updates, I'm hoping to have it running well this weekend..

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Cool. Looking forward to hearing how you figured out the tv cable.

Another thing that I thought of for those that moved the engine forward is radiator hoses - guessing the stock ones won't work. Anyone have working part numbers?

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

I have just finished this mod in my 67 panel 4wd 72 drivetrain. There are two ways to do it. I would be happy to speak on the phone, but with my two finger typing skills, It would take me forever to type. Its easy! I'm just a carpenter. If interested, Pm me for my phone #. Good luck.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Well I haven't posted in a while because I've been taking a break after being frustrated with this seemingly simple process of adjusting the TV cable.

Let me start by saying that I am a confident fabricator, and Industrial Designer by trade, so I have a good understanding of how to build things in general and make them work. I have built two different custom brackets to mount the TV cable/Throttle cable, with the same results even with two different geometries. I have followed all the posts and write ups I've read online about TV cable geometry with no success. The symptoms that I had as a result were stacked shifting, shifting too soon, or too late.

I finally decided that since there are companies out there with more experience that have done the 'math' on these systems that I would just order up a bracket and cable system complete. I picked one up from Bowtie Overdrives (link below) and installed a new spring into the plunger in the transmission, which meant dropping the pan again and re-installing, installing a new TV cable, modifying the Throttle linkage on the TBI to accept the TV bracket and cam that comes with it, and also sandwiching the plate in between the TBI unit and manifold (which cannot be done without bending the return fuel line coming out of the back of the TBI because it will hit the 90° flange on the plate, picture below).

http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata...php?ITEMID=326

I also ditched the OEM throttle cable in favor of a universal unit from Lokar, which has also proven to be more of a PITA than it seems to be worth with this setup. The issues that I'm having now are that in order to get full WOT on the TBI through the pedal (thus properly adjusting the TV cable), I have to tighten the throttle cable up so much that it doesn't allow the butterflies to fully seat back down into the TBI causing a fast idle.

In addition, despite the fast idle which I'm sure I can fix with a spring on the other side of the linkage or maybe playing with the throttle cable a little more, I'm getting a very violent shutter between overdrive and third gear under partial throttle just trying to cruise on the freeway. I'm afraid at this point that I'm going to severely harm the transmission if I continue to adjust/test without a clear direction going forward.

I know that everything installed on the transmission is correct, does this still sound like a TV cable problem or could it possibly be a TCC lockup issue? I'm confident that I have the lockup installed correctly and getting proper vacuum as well. Any suggestions? I know there are a couple others out there with TBI and 700R4, anything I'm missing here?

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7338/700r42.jpg

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

As far as the WOT issue is concerned, I had the same problem and solved it by bending the Z-shaped rod on the throttle peddle to get more throw out of it before bottoming out.

Regarding the TV setup, just guessing... but sounds to me as if your TV geometry is still off. The cam that you installed for the TV changes the rate that the pressure is applied in relation to throttle position but shouldn't affect the total range of motion.

Just a thought, but try this to verify that your geometry is on:

Measure total cable movement for both your TV and throttle cables. Using a sharpie pen, mark the TV cable at the point where it exits the cable housing, then move the throttle to WOT and mark the throttle cable where it exits its housing. With the throttle at WOT, measure the distance from the housing to your mark on the TV cable, then release and measure the distance from the throttle housing to the mark on the throttle cable.

I have a similar Bow Tie cam on my throttle body. When I measured my cable movement, I came up with total movements of 2-1/4" on the throttle and 1-3/8" on the TV cable. Not saying that yours should be identical, but one would think it ought to be close... at least the 1-3/8" total throw on the TV cable.

Have you hooked up a pressure gauge? The best advice for not hurting anything is to make sure you have a rise in pressure immediately off idle. If you are cruising in OD at part throttle and not pulling any line pressure you'll cause damage for sure. Setting the TV relative to WOT is dependent on having your geometry spot on. If it's off, you may be running part throttle w/ no line pressure.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Thanks for the measurements RestoRod. I'll take a look today and see what I come up with. As far as a pressure gauge, I don't have one. I read on Bowtie Overdrive's site that you need a 0-300psi pressure gauge and a 90° 1/8"NPT fitting to hook up to the transmission for checking. They don't specify any type or brand of gauge, is there a generic one that can be used? I assume just some type of oil pressure gauge correct? I mean, it's measuring fluid pressure, not air pressure. Do you really think it's necessary to use up to 300psi?

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

You might be able to use an oil pressure gauge for the off-idle test if you're careful. The line pressure on the low side is only about 10-20psi but if you rev it at all it will quickly build up to 100-200psi which would probably blow the fittings off of the gauge.

If you can swing it, take the time and find a 300psi gauge. It will probably come in handy diagnosing your problem. You might also call AAMCO or some local trans shop to see if they'll hook up a gauge and diagnose no charge.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Well, I broke down and took it into a shop here in Chandler that a guy that we pit for in Baja uses to tune his race truck. It's a bit pricey, but they do fantastic work, and aren't afraid to tackle a custom project. Link below:

http://www.adsautorepair.com/

I printed up a comprehensive list of everything that I've done, as well as a description of the problem that I was having, along with all the installation materials that I got from Painless, Bowtie Overdrives, Lokar, etc. on this project.

It turned out to be a vacuum delay sensor, which I KNOW that I DID read about in the installation of the TCC lockup from Painless (must have forgot and also convinced myself it was the TV cable). The last letter (G) in the instruction manual states:

As soon as they confirmed everything that I did in the install, and double checked the issues on the dyno, they ordered the part above from GM, and installed it for me. The install was free, the part was $35.00, but the diagnostic was a few hours at $96.00/hr.

One of those things that you kick yourself over because you know you could have figured it out, but just didn't. I'm glad to have it resolved, and it's running GREAT! I'll post an update soon to let you know it's still all good, along with some build pics of the whole conversion.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Very cool. I think I will take my truck in to a tranny shop once its together just for extra assurance.

Re: TH350 to 700R4
 

Congrats on finding the solution :c2: