Re: Engine?
 

You can not argue BBC vs LS. Like arguing about a 350 vs Flathead. Some will love the old school, some want the new stuff. Technology advancing can not be argued. Only personal preferance. I would be ticked off if a BBC was still better then a LS which was designed over 30 years later. Yea, "No replacement for Displacement" works but like all things, their are exceptions, Forced Induction, Air flow, NOS, Compression, TECHNOLOGY, ECT.....

I love my BBC but can not stop thinking about an LS. Even thought of selling my C-10 and supercharging my Silverado w/5.3 How fun is Daily driving a 550+HP vehicle with all the creature comforts? I like my BBC but driving it daily is a job. I always say, Driving a new vehicle is nice, it is an experience that i enjoy to drive an old school vehicle.

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I agree LS motors make a lot of HP, however, I think you only have to look as far as the NHRA Pro Stock class and see what the Chevrolet guys are running...it ain't an LS motor, it's a Rat motor.

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Tell me why they have 4 cylinders in those classes. Those 4 cylinders are pushing 1400+hp. LS is superior in the design to a BBC. No need for a 454 when the 6.0 makes more power then any stock 454 placed in an engine bay from the factory. NHRA pro stock is not a RAT, it is a kangaroo. Those engines are around $100,000. Like comparing a Ferrari to a new V-6 Camero. Still a sick car just not the $$ into it the Ferrari does.

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The reason they run rat motors in Pro Stock is because the motors have to be NA, thus a need for bigger cubic inches to make power and I'm pretty sure they don't run turbo 4 cylinder motors in NHRA Pro Stock last time I checked but I can be wrong. You can make a lot more power with a turbo big block than a 4 cylinder, but trying to hook up all that power is another story...:lol:

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I was unaware they ran 4 cylinders in pro stock. I know they are limited to 500 cubic inch, 90*, NA V8 motors with no spray and if your car is a Chevrolet you have to run a Chevrolet motor, if a Ford then a Ford motor.

A 6.0 LQ4 makes 325 HP. A LS6 (big block 454) makes 450 HP and was installed at the factory in 1970 SS Chevelles. An L88 (big block 427) made an advertised 430 HP but was later proven to make close to 500 HP and those were installed at the factory in 1967 Corvettes. The LS7 (big block 454) made 465+ HP but could only be had as a crate motor. They all have single carb induction.

Re: Engine?
 

The Head technology that all the race teams are using is far superior to what most of us are running.

Pro stock,Pro mod,Top comp all these classes run 12-14* type of head's. Guess what degree LS based engines run? 12* I believe.

I wonder much like every one here has. Do I build BBC, LS based motor or do I take advantage of the cylinder head technology and convert from 23* to 14*-18*
Can I save in cost? Will it perform like a LS motor?
So many variables.

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Re: Engine?
 

Randy,

Numbers from the 60's and 70's were rated differently than todays motors.
The L88 and old school LS7 were more or less all out factory race motors. Look at todays little C6 ZO6 motor that is 427ci making every bit of 505hp from the factory. Smooth idle, runs vacum brakes, weighs less.. With a set of headers and a cam swap, they have been known to make over 600rwhp on pump gas.

Tony Mamo from AFR recently made 730+hp on an engine dyno with a 454ci LS motor. This was a 91 octane drinking hyd roller motor.

I mean really, things could be argueed for days on this.


I still haven't seen a rough cost for an NA high 11/low 12 second big block in a 36-3800lb truck.

4-5 years ago I remember driving around my buddies big block 69 truck wearing aftermarket heads, decent sized cam with 11-1 compression, converter, gear and tire. I was only running 12.30's in my truck then. He gatted me by 2-3 cars do to my lack of traction, went by him before the 1/8 and strapped close to 5 cars on him. Similar results with a second pass. My guess is it was a high 12 second truck at best.

Now I know DJ's old motor would have drove around me.. But what would that motor take to replicate in todays market?

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My 496 is $8800. It should have me in mid 11's no problem... The same engine in a chevelle is running high tens low 11's. Pump gas, vacuum brakes, and daily driver.

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How much HP would you say you have to make (with the right tire/gear/chassis set up) to go low 12's/high 11's in a 3800 lb truck?

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This car is an iron headed (781 I think) 496. It's making 657hp and 675tq. It's a daily driver.

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I'll have around $4700 in my 496. I'm hoping to run low 12's with it. Although, I'm going to have to baby it this season until, I upgrade the rear to a 9".

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Thank you for the honest example.

You can get an ls2 with trans and harness, put headers on it, put a cam in it, add injectors and get it tuned. For about the same amount.
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That's the price for a used motor right?

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You are correct, i miss spoke about the Prostock class. However, there are many 4cylinders in other NHRA classes making well over 1500hp.

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Yeah, the LS engines are cool but, you can get more torque out of a BBC than an LS from the articles I've read. My 496 also is going to have, forged Scat crank and I beam rods as well as, forged SRP pistons for a grand total of $1700 for the rotator kit.

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I dug around after reading that and if memory serves that motor was about $80k and they offer a 1000 cid version now that can be had as a street motor for a nice $100-120k.

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In regards to 69 910 GMC, I could see no problem with a 700 HP pump gas 496 running very easily into the 10s in the same conditions you run your LS in with power adders. Mid eighties 1/2 ton, 4000 pounds, 3.50 gears, pump gas normally aspirated hyd roller 700 HP 496 driver, 10 sec truck at Sacremento easily, heres an honest example of a 9000.00 power plant.

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I would hope a 496ci motor would run as good as my little 347ci motor did on a 100 shot, it has 150ci on it. Now as my cubic inches get closer to that 496 mark (418ci) I would suspect I would need less bottle.

Again, I am not saying you can't make big power on the BBC platform. With any NA motor, if you have comprable heads for the ci (flow enough for the ci), the right cam and combo, a bigger cube motor should make more power, period. I just see too many bad big block combos to be an advocate of the big block craze. I'm not drinking the cool aide, but then again a lot of you big block guys aren't drinking the LS cool aide.. To each his/her own. That's what makes this sport fun!!

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Just maybe you should consider drinking some of the coolaid, because that light weight, big tired truck of yours just might see some 9 sec NA passes, and still work the power brakes, 238@.050 hyd roller.:chevy:

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If I put a big block in it, it wouldn't be light weight anymore :) at some point I will change the combo, go with a solid roller in hopes to go 9's. And please correct me if I am wrong, and I do respect his truck, but I believe dj never went 9's NA with his big tired big block truck with less weight than me.
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Dont know DJ, 9s NA.

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I went 9.8o's with number one rod trying to come out...and my truck is all steel no power adders. The best motor for him is what he can afford and what he is comfortable working on. IMO

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I look at what an engine can make per cube. that 496 is making 1.44 per cube,.. very nice ,..a 376 CI LS engine will make 1.46 very easy.

I have owned BB, SB and yes the LS as well. Dollar for dollar you can not beat them ,... facts are what they are.

If I did not have the parts I had from the 383 that went south. I would have went LS all the way.

There was a great write up a while back on a 6.0 that they bought a cheap stroker kit and went at it.

Heres the link,http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...d/viewall.html


now take that same bone yard engine that you start with say 1500 bucks another 1500 in the stroker kit, swap the cam intake carb, ign and you are making well into the 575-600 range and all in money wise you can spend about 5000-6000 buying all new parts and have a engine that makes killer power is is extremely tough and will still handle the juice for the extra power :devil:

I built a el cheapo 413 stroker for the junk yard engine. With some looking around we where able to pick up a few used parts here and there. Once done with a E bay pro form carb and PP intake it laid down 612 hp that 1.48 per cube. Total budget 4100 bucks.


Gotta love a BBC for running on 7 TOO funny

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My junk was not built to run Normally Aspirated. My motor was not a good combo. I wanted to upgrade cylinder heads and I knew I wasn't gonna keep the smaller Big Block so I bought way too much head for a 468 so it was a pig on the Motor. I used to run 9.20's at 143 mph N/A with the same short block and a better combo in a 2800lb car that was a little more aero dynamic than the truck. My truck may still not be back together anytime soon. (issues on the home front) But the new motor should run low 9's N/A with the right convertor. I'm know the tight nitrous convertor will slow it down but to be able to spray a 300 to 500 shot it will have to have it.

Re: Engine?
 

Kevin, I hope you weren't thinking I was bagging on your truck, not at all. Your truck has always impressed me. I used you truck as an example as it is/was lighter than mine, more cubes etc. It's not as easy to go 9's let alone 10's NA in one of these trucks, yet some make it sound like they grow on trees.

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"JUNK" Are you crazy man? That thing was flying brother don't let anyone tell you otherwise just post up that vid link you don't have to say anything. for a tight converter and nos cam it was riding on motor too. 75% or more people on here would die for that setup.

Sorry to hear about the home front and truck delays! lord knows I have been there. If I can help I am just sitting on the couch recovering from surgery I'll take a road trip if need be.

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Its all good. Just letting some know how far the combo was off from where it should have been. Hopefully we will at least get to play with Cade's truck if its God's Will. Any progress on Brackets?

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I haven't made any more yet. Hopefully will have time in the next month or so.

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It would be VERY easy for me to run 10s with your type of truck on pump gas NA, of course Id do with a 9 inch tire LOL, and I dont think it would take more than my flattappett 467 to get it done, infact my friends 4900 pound 1 ton drive line, 35 inch front tires, slicks on the rear 6 inch lifted, 3.73 gears, 1800 RPM stall converter 70 short wide ran 11.40 into a 20 mph head wind @ Bakersfield with a 650 HP BB, theres a video out there somewhere, I will try and find it.:chevy:

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I would hope a 467ci big block would get my truck in to the 10's. It would be rather sad if it didn't. You should go in to the big block building business and show some of these other cats how to make some power. Again, I am not saying big blocks can't make power.

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DJ that is a killer ride, Not junk from what I see..

I understand how hard it is to get to those time. Thumbs up in my book

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Teehee..............
You fellas have a little Outlaw 10.5 Blood in ya....
Just let it out and go all out!

PLR 670ci 4000+ HP - Pro Line Racing Engine
http://www.prolineracing.net/
http://www.prolineracing.net/images/engines/670ci.jpg

Tim Lynch & Steve Petty's new Pro Line Racing...

This is what 1Bad wants to be..........Fast Freddy
But for now I currently running Poor/Street Class - (Poe/Street)
(Poe/Street class is for the high class fellars & thier trucks.
http://www.carmk.net/auto_img3/20067152111740677801.jpg
http://bittenandbound.com/wp-content...utrisystem.jpg

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Incase some of you dont know, Vortecpro, Mark Jones, is in the BBC business. He ports old iron that have flow numbers equal to or better then AFR CNC ones. He knows what he is doing.

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Fulton is a bad man. So is Mark Jones aka vortecpro. Your not reading. Hydraulic flat tappet 467 makin that power for cheap using gm original iron heads.

My 496 has 9k in iy and untuned went 7.39 with 10" tire too much gear, slapper bars, monroe (oreilly) non adjustable shocks.
@ 4000-4100 whatever it is. That was with little timing and factory jets in carb with a baby hydraulic roller.


Super, you keep sayin examples and whem one is given you jump back to ls is better this that wow unimpressive because cubes blah blah. You sound like an import driver who was beat by a domestic
You didnt hear anyone whining cause you had a bottle did you? Oh ot should be faster because.nitrous., who cares?

Ls are badass, bbc is badass, sbc is badass. Do what you wanna do but dont knock other peoples stuff because you would rather do an ls.

I thought about building an ls for another car also. Still may.... Just chill.
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Re: Engine?
 

Shawn, can you show me where I said big blocks suck?
Can you show me where I said big blocks can't make power? I do believe I have been saying they can make great power through out this whole thread.

All I am stating is a na motor with a lot more cubic inches in the same chassis should be able to go just as fast if not faster. I know it has to do with total combo and I have seen a lot of less than stellar big block combos. Mark probably knows how to put a good big block combo together, it's his business to do so or he can't put food on the table.

You don't need a big block to go fast on pump gas with street manners.
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Re: Engine?
 

Never said,you said they suck or anything else. You just keep sayin how they should being the cubes.
Like when you said that to vortecpro, he said he had a 467 and you said well it should it has 467 cubes.

The ls has 18° heads. They SHOULD make power. There have been slouches on those also.

Like I said, I could give a damn what motor is in anything, if its fast then I like it.
For using alot of 45 year old technology, Mark build some damn good power.

Ill end up building a ls motor eventually, just because they are impressive.
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