Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

And let's not forget the costs of doing business in that $100 an hour rate.

the employer pays rent, electricity, gas, salaries, payroll taxes, workers comp insurance (10% to 15% of payrolls here in California), health insurance for employees, materials, parts, tools, supplies, uniforms, liability insurance, garagekeepers liability insurance, company auto insurance, property and tools insurance, overhead, paint, paint supplies, inventories, fixtures...and on and on and on...

Honestly, I don't know how some of these guys make it at $100 an hour unless it's insurance work. And with good help being hard to come by (guys don't show up for work, or your train them and they go to your competitor down the street for 50 cents more an hour, family problems, big egos, side jobs, etc), being in any type of business is less and less about taking care of customers, its more a form of adult day-care for employees...

:waah:

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

I still encounter plenty of "do it yourself guys" and many can build nice rides. I did my own paint and body and it looks great from 20 feet back, (maybe 10 even.) Sure, I got some waves, a couple runs, and I used fiberglass to patch up some rust, but I never beat myself up over my flaws because I did it myself and to the best of my abilities at the time. I even had it featured in a "Reader's Rides" section of a popular truck mag. I learned a lot in the process and although now I look at some of the work I did back then and kinda shake my head, I'm still proud as can be everytime someone says "nice truck". You can spend a fortune, or keep it real and both routes still get compliments. I say, go fot it, learn as you go, and keep it cheap the first time around. Later when your skills improve, you can always do it again on a bigger budget.

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Its sad Im 33 and kids who were interested in working on cars were few and far between back in my high school years I cant imagine the numbers look to good today. A lot of it has to do with public schools and how kids are being raised. Makes me think of this video its a great
Than aside from the lack of interest and knowledge that is dying off with the old timers our hobby is being attacked on the environmental front. Also dont forget that humans and our bad driving as a whole are going to probably make it illegal or impractical to own a vehicle that doesnt drive itself in the not so distant future.

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

I like the truck college analogy, after setting up the garage and learning to weld and paint on the truck, I repainted my daughters 07 Jetta saving over 2000$, it took me two weeks were a pro could of done it a couple of days but was well worth it. Before going to "Truck College", I would have never been brave enough to tackle a job like that. It was fun to learn and a very satisfying to enjoy the finished product. I am also much better physical shape. I lost over 30 lbs in the last year doing what 1963c-10 calls the "c10 workout".
Grinding, sanding, welding and so on is a messy job not to mention the toxicity of the paints and thinners, no wonder the younger folk are staying away from this field. Back in the day there was very little knowledge of the health issues related to this field. I have a skilled auto body friend who worked in a body shop during the 1980's and he now has severe health problems, I think that is what happened to a lot of the skilled painters and increased the bottom line. (regulations restrictions)

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

Im with you on this one im 26 and I love classic cars and trucks and I love getting dirty and working on them I just lack any teaching or experience. I never had anyone close to me that was into the hobby. After high school I looked at schools such as UTI and Wyotech. Instead I joined the Navy, currently working as an airframe mechanic. I would love to have a mentor to show me the ropes and teach me everything they know and I would be willing to put in the work. since I don't have that I also find great inspiration and knowledge from this site if I wouldn't have found this site I would have never bought my 66. So from a younger guy thank you to those of you who help us out with our questions. I learn something new about these trucks everyday from the forums. So I hope the hobby doesn't die and I plan to pass on what I learn and my truck to my son so he to can appreciate these awesome trucks and the skills to work on them.

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

cheaper to do frame off than buy a new truck with low tire montering, daylight running lights, air bags, parks itself, try to fix that wasted stuff: :smoke:

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

Yes, but it is much easier to get a loan for a new one :). After reading this thread I feel very good about the freshly painted '65 I have owned for over a year now. Still not driveable but the body and paint is nice. Not show quality but nice.

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

I'm planning to go about it exactly as you have, and I'm even going the same color as you, minus the white roof. Your truck looks great. if mine turns out anywhere near as nice as yours, I'll be pleased.

I might contact you at some point later to ask about what paint materials you used if that's OK. Your color turned out exactly as I hope mine does.

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Thanks for the compliments, contact me anytime. Happy to help...you know where to find me.

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

This is what a lot of people are missing the point on. You take your car/truck to a shop of any kind. Notice the word "shop". The guy has to have a place to work on it at. What does it cost to buy/rent the building the work will be performed at cost. Then, open to door and more cost are involved. Electricity, heat, insurance, etc. Can't work in an empty building so he has to have tools to do the job. And specialty tools aren't cheap. The man who does the work has a family to feed. He also has employees that need to be paid, incurring more cost.

I don't own a shop or even work in one. But I do realize the cost of owning and running a business. No, I can't afford someone who charges $80 - $100 an hour but I respect the ones who do. Their cost are high and not getting any cheaper thanks to taxes, government regulations, etc.

The true masters in these businesses are craftsmen. Skilled labor isn't cheap or everybody would be doing it ...

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I have enjoyed reading everyone's opinions on this, some are very interesting while others hit home pretty much. My dad restored a 1930 Chevrolet 2door sedan about 25 years ago, I helped some with the heavy work but kids and job hours didnt lend to much else. He did the entire thing, paint and all himself. He then restored/built his 64 C20 Crew Cab and let someone else do the paint, just because of space.

Space, there is a hurdle for many, I bought an old travel trailer to restore and pull behind my 65 SWB. I needed somewhere to repair the rotten wood, so I bought a 20X20 garage ( $6K) put a slab down to support it ( 2500), then wired it ( $500), then HAD to insulate ( $2500) and then I had a great place to work on my trailer.....but after $12k, I havent even touched the trailer. When I am done with the trailer, my plan is to park the trailer and the truck in the garage for safe keeping and take them both to state parks and camp...but I now have to restore the trailer.....

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

I Guess ill throw in my 0.02$ haha. As some of ya'll may know im 18 years old Absolutely hate everything new in a vehicle ...actually the world haha. Im working on becoming a Custom fabricator and machinist, I love doing body work on the cars in the shop, yea my ol Christine hasn't seen alot of work at all but that's mainly because i love the character and i feel a sin coming on if i think of pulling the dents. I love how they did things back in the 50's and 60's even the 70's in the street machines! i agree today there is not much pride shown in the work done, Today's world revolves around money and power and not on the fundamentals we used to. At my house we work like they did back then we take our time and we show the pride in our work , But that's on our own projects. The world needs more people that love the art and pride that goes into the work.

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I the past forty years I`ve built a lot of cars, four total ground up restro`s, and its been fun, learned more on how not to do things, problem now is EPA has stepped in, don`t get caught painting a car in your garage in Calif, neighbor got caught twice, second time was a $1500 dollar fine, thanks to his neighbor, so with that being said now we can only do this in the far out reaches of the county, my neighbor complains all the time about the grinding and hammer and dolly work, but his screaming kids make more noise than that, several times I have shot a fender with primer and he does take notice...so any paint gets done 20 miles out, a real hassel, one reason here in Cali that paint jobs cost what they do....I just keep working on as best I can...!

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I agree with Rich...California is tough.

Personally, even though I might be able afford to put $20k into a paint job...I would never even consider it! Not because the painter doesn't earn his money (he does), but because there is NO satisfaction if someone else does all the work. Besides...I'm a bit cheap!

I've spent the past 13 months welding, straightening and doing most of my own work to get the body of my 61 absolutely straight as possible. There were many nights I'd come in from the shop with a sore back or bleeding finger tips (I'm 51 years young) and ask myself, "What the heck are you doing this for?".

However, I will enjoy the SATISFACTION of taking it to a car show knowing it was my dad's truck and people appreciating MY ideas and MY work, not somebody elses.

Sure...I made a ton of mistakes along the way. Probably wasted a couple of thousand on the project because I didn't think it through up front...but the guys on this forum have really helped me get this project done and helped me spend a lot of money! HAHA

So to you younger guys out there who are new to the forum. I hope some of you will tackle your projects yourself as well. Study up! There's a lot of knowledgable guys on here...

I promise you, you'll feel a lot better about doing it yourself and solving some of your own challenges than the guy who just writes a $125,000 check to win a trophy at a car show.:waah:

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

My 2 cents - I think auctions like Barret Jackson and Mecum have done a lot to ruin the hobby for the average guy. Don't get me wrong, those auctions have their place for the "professional" collector. But why does every car or truck built have to be perfect or over the top.
I saw the same thing with off-roading before I sold my jeep. We loved to run logging roads and such, but along came "rock crawling" and well....
I just bought a '66, with decent original paint. It has dents and dings, I plan to clean it up and polish it out the way it is, probably do a few shows. I bet I will have just as much if not more fun than a guy with a $25,000 paint job. Just say'en.

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

Clyde. there was no such thing as a 1930 Chevrolet 2 door sedan.
ron

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

Some call them sedan's but I guess it's actually coupe

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

As far as kids not wanting to do this kind of work it depends on where they live and their parents too. If the kid is one of these "Entitled" kids then no they wont be doing this kind or anything like it because their parents just bought them anything they wanted and didn't have to earn anything. I look at what I do as an art form more than as a job and these kids who start at a shop then leave to open their own will just turn into a half-assed shop like these tv shows where they flip cars in weeks instead of months and months. I've seen the work these "Modern" bodymen do and have had to start almost from scratch fixing it because if they cant fix it its covered in gallons of filler instead. The very youngest kids from eighteen to twenty-one are going back to the old school ideals about doing things the right way and not just doing it as fast as they can. The school I went to was just about dead when I left but now its full of life again because the new gen cares about what and how they do it.

Were a full tilt restoration shop and its amazing how many times we give a quote only to see that vehicle back in our shop getting fixed the right way because the cheap way only lasted a year or less. To those of you seeking a shop and they give you a high but fair price look at their work and the time they take to do something and besides alot of the time that price can go up or down just depending on what they find once they tear into it. We prefer to go to bare steel and won't touch it unless you let us, we did a 55 Bel Air and the owner assured us it was never hacked up or heavily filled with filler...he was dead wrong. They never let him see the car until it was finished, we took out a quarter panel that has five patches welded in because they didn't have enough sense to do it right. We also dug into it a little further and found just over an inch of filler right next to that same panel...you get what you pay for.

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2 doors full body was a coach and 4 doors was referred as a sedan.
this link will help explain it;
http://1931chevrolet.com/drawings.htm
and here is how they listed my old 32 Chev which had 4 doors;
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/128...0/854/rlzx.jpg
I also had a couple of Model A coaches and 35,36,37,38,41 and 47 Ford coaches and sedans
ron

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

funny---------Ron showing your age------

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69 last sunday and your not that far behind are you? there are older though, but just one that I know of.
I can remember looking at a brand new 63 0r 64 red GMC short step 4 x 4 283 that I would have like to have taken home
ron

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

Just Google 31 Chevrolet Coupe and see what comes up, :lol:

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shows quite a few coupes , but don't know what you want me to see. does it show anything different then what is here? http://1931chevrolet.com/drawings.htm
ron

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

Keep it nice guys or the thread is going to be closed.


III. No pissing matches. Its fine to disagree, but once a thread has run its course, and degenerated into little more than an insult fest, it will be locked. While this will require a judgment call by the Administrators & Moderators. The members of this site can keep our moderating to a minimum by exercising a little discretion and self- control. Excessive profanity will lead to a 24 hour suspension at the Administrations discretion.

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

Thank you. Not to mention what they are argueing about is off topic and interrupting an otherwise interesting thread.

I used to work in the industry but got an entry level government job in my mid-30s. Much of the reason were these younger guys that would work for very little money were driving wages down. Most of the guys that were older than me had switched jobs and cities many times and had greatly fluctuating incomes throughout their career.

A good friend of mine has been very successful in the industry, owns his own business, and makes 2 to 3 times what I do. We started comparing lifestyles and we live very similar lives financially.
I make what the highest paid guy at the shop made AND have employer supplied health benefits for my family, a pension, no social security deductions, all kinds of paid days off, sick days, overtime, funeral leave, etc... I also work 4 tens so I am also off every Friday, Saturday, Sunday
He has to pay unemployment insurance, social security payments, healthcare costs, taxes, huge liability insurance costs(works in the race industry), high overhead due to custom made only ones in existence inventory, high development costs for technology, and travel expenses. Add to that ridiculous hours, constant traveling, relationship strain due to both, and the health risk from the stress.

He is living his dream but it is also his nightmare...

I feel like I sold out but I am happier now.

Re: Questions RE future of hobby
 

I agree. I like this thread topic. Please stay on topic. Don't destroy a good thread.