Re: Project: Recycle
 

It was 4" w/~27" tires; ~5" with the intended front tires @ 27.7".
Currently have the frame set @ 5" (@ front cab mount). Front x-member is a bit higher. Using CPP Modular spindles & the A-arms are level to the floor.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

I was able to get together w/the steel fab guy after work yesterday. I gave him the final template as well as a graphed template w/the dimensions & he said I should be able to get them today. I told him that would be great so we'll see if it happens that quickly.

To keep pushing forward, I advanced the mock-up status. I used one of the early templates just for the visual perspective....

Re: Project: Recycle
 

The material removed was 4" diameter & will possibly need refining. I want to leave as much of the existing upper mount as possible to support the use of an upper bag plate. It's easy enough to take more off where needed if required.

I have a couple small items to finish preparing for the remainder of the drivers side set-up so that I can decide on possible changes.

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Well.... The guy cutting the brackets was @ his shop from around noon till 6pm yesterday but I never heard from him about the brackets :banghead:

During the wait, I moved forward for a little more clarification on clearances. I made some templates that simulate the coils OD. I padded the templates by an extra .250" for clearance validation:

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Clearance @ the a-arm cross shaft is about .3125 - .375" w/the bolt @ full length. I'm betting they'll be trimmed down when all is said & done but good to know it clears as is:

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Clearance @ the a-arm/upper bag mount is about the same. Each side can be trimmed back as well but it appears it won't take much if necessary:

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Nice work here sir. Precise.

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One week later & still waiting. He did reach out to me mid-week to say that he sent my template & dimension sheet over to a friend of his that has a laser for 'a better cut bracket'. He again indicated he would have them done/back by "tomorrow". 'Tomorrow' was yesterday.....

Looks like I'll just remake my template & make them by hand like usual. Frustrating.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

You have the patience required ;) But I certainly understand that frustration...

.

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Cant you run that cross shaft bolt from the outside? You’ll have some alignment shims there too.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

very nice scotti,
so did you check the internals on that engine that N2TRUX gave you... I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled all the guts out!!…. :lol:!!!
nice beginning on this:ito:
...I will try to follow along....:smoke:

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LoL…. He didn't mess w/anything on this one. I pulled it apart to correct the worn items & although there was significant carbon build-up on the pistons, it was about what you would expect for a 70k mile motor.

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I guess I'll update quickly while I'm here & just edited the pics.

I got my brackets from the contractor @ my work that uses a guy that knows a guy.....

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Quick test fit after I picked them up. They're cut from .250" material:

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Nice. Brackets look good.

Do you think you will have this truck at C10's in the Park later this year?

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Could I deplete my bank account & get it done by then? Yep... If parts were coming in within days of wanting them. The reality is that doesn't happen enough. Plus, when I'm buying stuff, I usually still have to tweak things from that point so it (the process) stacks up. Take these brackets as an example. Almost 2wks for something that I was told could be done overnight. It didn't work out that way despite trying. Now that I have them, they look like a 'go' but I still don't have the final a-arm set-up so I can't confirm. Hopefully they arrive within the next week or two. I have the drivers side base plates cut & drilled already but can't weld things up until I can do final mock-up of the actual parts. For this week, I'll focus on the pass side & get it to the same point as the drivers.

I know you know how it is when you're doing these builds on a tight budget. I am pushing forward & try to do something toward the build every day to keep my momentum.

My goal is to get it finished how I want it vs. by a set date (which impacts decisions). Timelines don't seem to ever work how I want so I stopped focusing on them. Besides.... I wouldn't be able to get it in anyway & it would just be parked in some random spectator lot.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

That is the best way to finish a project...I think that deadlines are good, but for hobby projects, it can influence decisions that end up being a compromise on what your final vision is or should have been. I have 3 passes to C10's, but only 1 running truck at the moment, it is starting to looks like 1 of the 3 might not make it...

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Well.... If it comes down to it, the dually is definitely ready for action.

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Got the e-mail w/tracking number info today from PB Fab. Arms are on their way as scheduled.

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Porterbuilt narrowed arms mocked up in place to make sure the C/O's still clear despite the reduction of width. They clear.

I have the drivers side mocked up. The lowers fit w/o fuss. Once in place & secured w/the hardware (not final torque but enough to compress a split lock washer), the arm can easily be rotated up/down.

The uppers have what I feel is an alignment issue between the shaft/bushings & the barrels they seat into.
The bushings go into the barrels.
The bushings slide over the shafts properly.
But the alignment is off when assembling the combination of parts.

I forced the driver side together to allow verifying I could still move forward. With the arm in place & no hardware to limit it's movement, they require a lot of force to pivot them up/down.

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And here is what I need to correct w/the uppers....

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Well that doesn't look right. Is Porterbuilt going to send you replacements?

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I haven't contacted them yet. I've been making inquiry's from others on how theirs worked, if they encountered similar issues, & getting some legit real user feedback.

I forced the driver side upper together so I could just do the physical mock-up. I staged the pass side upper just for pics to show a buddy which confirmed both upper arms if installed 'as is' will be in a bind. Two people I discussed the topic with (both owners of PB Delrin bushed arms) said there were assembly struggles & that the arms were hard to pivot but that everything worked out ok w/full vehicle weight.

We have a thing in my group that's a regular TAG line for me: "ScotLuck". I'll be the one crossing fingers that "everything works ok" & won't get the same positive result. Or.... I expect more out of the sum total of parts I research & decide to use. I suppose when things don't work it makes me a PITA in situations like this (because of my expectations). My thoughts are that a quality Delrin bushed a-arm should be bind-free & easily pivot (not pivot like it's on needle bearings but pivot smoothly w/o any serious bind). After assembling the lower arm, installing it, & seeing/feeling how easily it pivots..... it TELLS me the uppers definitely are not alike.

I've always had a good relationship w/Mr. P. so I'll get my ducks in a row & go from there. I'm going to disassemble the drivers side & get some measurements. I'm thinking maybe some tweaking in the hydraulic press can possibly align things better. Once I have some dimensions, I'll reach out to Nate & see what he thinks the best approach is for a positive outcome.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

I think it would warp like that if the balljoint mount was welded to the arms after the pivots were welded on.

It should warp less if the balljoint plate is welded first, and then the pivots welded on after.

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Kind of trying to determine that (order of steps). That helps determining if there's a 'better' way if tweaking w/force to arrive back where you want it. I have a machinist buddy going to verify/measure things w/me tomorrow & see what his thoughts are. I'll contact Nate once I have numbers to discuss.

Just a curve in the road :cool:

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Had a second set of eyes look @ the arms today for his thoughts. My co-worker has a machinist background so after I explained my issue/concern the first thing he did was grab a straight edge he uses on equipment @ the plant & checked alignment between the 2 bushing housings. They are not aligned. It does appear one end pulled away as a result of heat.

We then did some measuring on a 'special' machined-flat ceramic/granite block they use just for measuring. Shim stock indicated .115"; dial gauge was a little higher @ .131". The shim stock was slid under @ the center of the barrel; the dial gauge was close to the outer edge so the variance makes sense.

I also brought another set of C10 upper arms (from a different manufacturer) that utilize Delrin bushings to compare pivot resistance @ the shaft for both sets. He agrees there is definite bind from misalignment.

He confirmed we can probably tweak the arms so alignment is better between the 2 bushing barrels/housings. But, since tweaking them could also possibly damage them (doubtful but possible), I e-mailed PB to get their thoughts before I do anything.

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Hydraulic press them back into alignment. Upper arms aren't that heavily stressed anyway. :D

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Waiting for his ok.

If anything goes wrong, I'm not eating the cost because I shouldn't have to mess w/correcting anything. I'm confident I can get things where they need but again just crossing my T's & dotting my I's.

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Nate responded w/acknowledgement that he could see what I was talking about from my pictures. He asked me for some additional specific info & requested that I try tightening the partially assembled Driver side arm to spec since I only zapped it w/my cordless impact.

I torqued the Driver side arm from 100ftlbs up to 140ftlbs. While it did improve the alignment @ the bushing housings the rotational drag was still significant. I responded Friday w/the additional info & will see what the next step is once he replys.

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I got a follow-up phone call today & will be moving forward. Based on measurements & numbers discussed, the amount the arm is off is related to some stretch from building & consistent w/what he's seen. Once torqued, the alignment is better. He say these arms do start off tighter than others by design but work fine w/the full truck weight.

I'm good w/moving forward. He offered to work w/me if I'm not ok w/things (as I get farther along w/the assembly). Nate is always great to work & talk with concerning this stuff.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Nate is good at holding himself and the brand accountable.
Production line parts are unfortunately off here n there pretty often,,in my experience.
Ive had several PB parts n pieces with slight misalignment or dimensionally inaccurate fitup and even more so with other brands like RideTech. it happens.
I try to remind myself that nothing is ever as good or as bad as we tend to perceive it to be. its hard to let things go when your creating a masterful work of antique art. 10,000 hours baby,,, back to work..

That is all....

Move along...

6 feet apart please...

Re: Project: Recycle
 

LoL.... All is good. I put one in the press & moved things to the point alignment was better. The end result was a little better as far as effort required to pivot the arm. He offered to take them back & do whatever was needed but I was good w/his explanation/s.

Nate & I met years ago so we go back a bit. He's always been 100% open to my questions, thoughts, & always willing to do what it takes if I wasn't happy. He always was & still is a busy guy so you have to be patient to sometimes get in contact w/him but they responded quickly when I reached out.

I have the drivers side assembled on the truck. I've been waiting on BJ's & a few other pieces to finish verifying my dimensions (I left the other BJ's in the Ridetech arms for re-sale or re-use). I got everything late last week so next step is finishing up the lower brackets & putting a C/O in place.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Scoti,

What are the specs on the front coil over you plan to use?

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Since my mounts are custom, I'm going w/a 5.2" stroke HQ Series shock & will use a 10" coil @ Ridetechs recommended 750lb rate.
Basically it's just a longer version of what's spec'd for their 63-70 C/O conversion kit.

The rear C/O's will match their kit specs using a 5.2" stroke & 12" coil. Their spec calls for a 275lb coil which I'll increase to 325lbs to compensate for the additional rear weight of the gas tank + raised floor sub-frames.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Not much of an update but as we like to say.... progress is progress. I've been playing the waiting game for 'Recycle' parts + research, waiting for G-body parts + research, & doing some home repairs for my GF's house. I have not been idle!

I got the PB narrowed a-arms powder coated. The coating (low gloss black) turned out nice but they got material in the bushing barrels which I had to go back & remove. PITA. But all four arms are now assembled.

The new Moog lower BJ's pressed in no problems. The new QA1 upper 'tall' BJ's bolted in after drilling the PC material out of the holes.

I went to assemble the upper shafts to the arms when I discovered the shafts were steel where I thought they were stainless. There were rust spots starting as a result of moisture & oils from handling. So, I made the decision to get the shafts & modular spindles PC'd focusing on the car/house stuff mentioned. I dropped the shafts/spindles off last week but I guess the guy was not there to get them done. I got a call Wed am & picked them up @ closing on Wednesday. As soon as I got back to the shop & unwrapped the high-temp tape, I was not happy. The parts looked great but they sand-blasted all surfaces including threaded areas. I spent Thurs/Friday trying to polish out the surfaces & running a die over the shaft threads.

Today I drilled the holes through the vertical portion of the upper C/O bracket on the driver side & assembled things for verifying. The vertical portion of the bracket will be tweaked/slimmed-down as the process moves forward. The bottom C/O bracket @ the lower a-arm still needs to be finalized so that I can drill the inner mounting hole (it will bolt in using the existing hole for the air bag on the lower a-arm).

I still need to trim the inner TRE for the reduction in track width. I'm cutting the full 1" difference off @ the inners since there is over twice as much thread to utilize. I originally just purchased the current rack from a local Oreillys for mock-up. I might get a 'better' R&P from an aftermarket source but undecided.

For now, everything moves/pivots up/down nice & smooth. I'll purchase the C/O's next & do a little more homework on other possible tweaks as things progress. I hope to have a front shock in place soon to test up/down travel (to ensure there's no bind). I'm also going to verify the current Bilstein shock will mount to the new PB lower w/o issue & then get the shock + bracket out of the way.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

So you are leaving that upper bag plate there? I am confused..

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Yep. C/O goes through the middle of where the top bag bolted in. It doesn't interfere w/the C/O & allows me to still do bags if wanted @ a later date vs. if the mount is completely removed.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Are the upper bag plate and upper arm hat the same piece ? It looks like a 1st gen DM .. I forget how they were. I was thinkin either way you will need to weld that bag plate back together to ever utilize it.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

The upper a-arm mounting & upper bag mount are a one piece bracket.

A new upper bag plate would be a simple bolt-in that goes under the existing mount just like if you were installing an upper bag mount/plate under a factory C10 front x-member.

I have the template made but have not cut a bracket/plate yet.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Thats what I was thinkin. Thats the DM that still uses the lower cross shafts IIRC.
carry on.