Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

The next focus was the main power system and cooling fans.

I got one of those sweet little MSD relays, and mounted it out of the way, under the battery. I am set up so my PCM controls the fans, and they send a ground trigger. So this was super simple. I would recommend these relays. I am going to use two channels for fans, and the other two I will use for headlights down the road.

I have noticed that feeding power directly from the battery through a relay to the headlights increases light output significantly on these old trucks. I may even get fancy down the road and put in the new Holley Retrobright lights. But that is a future Justin problem, not a today Justin problem. So the relays are mounted, and they work great. and MAN does this radiator move a lot of air when both fans are on.

One thing to note, I did have to flip the orientation of the relay from what you see in the picture so I could clear the inner fender. I thought about that one too late, but that was an easy fix.

I repurposed the factory Tahoe main battery and ground cables, and just crimped new lugs on them where I wanted them. they actually worked pretty good!

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

And you know what that means....the next step was starting this beast.

I wired up the fuel pump, and the PCM. searched up a few videos for tuning tips, plugged in my lap top, made a few adjustments, uploaded a quick tune, did my few last minute checks(we will get back to that in a second)...and hit the key.

and...no life. Cranked, but no fuel pump, no life.

so I started trouble shooting...I realized that perhaps I was a little bit excited, and forgot to plug the PCM into the harness.

I plugged it in, hit the key, and it came to life immediately.

and it was running and idling SO good. Sow here's the next stupid thing I did...

Remember how I said I did my last checks before start up? Well I crawled under it, and THOUGHT I put it in neutral. I ACTUALLY put it in reverse. I had a complete brain fart. I thought it was P-N-R not P-R-N. I clicked it into park, clicked it back one, and off I went. Boy, was I about to get a surprise...

Once I fired it up, of course, I blipped the throttle. I had it on dollies so I could roll it around. The wheels turned, it spit the dollies at my ankle, plopped on the ground, and slowly rolled into the wall.

Talk about a wake up hahaha. Anyhow, no damage or anything happened, it was all pretty slow motion. my ankle and my pride are a bit bruised, but other than that, everything is good.

It runs and sounds SO good.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

if you look, you will see that only the front is on dollies haha. Anyhow, it was running at this point!

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

a quick little clip of it idling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVqHCiBMZhc

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

After I got the engine running, I focused on the brakes. Nothing fancy to see here.

I plumbed stainless lines to all 4 corners, tying into the factory lines where the rubber flex hoses start.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

After the brakes were done, I started reassembly. I mounted the cab for the last time, and I figured that I might as well give the cab a quick coat of rattle can white while I was at it. I can not believe how that changed the look of the whole thing.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

i also hooked up the fuel filler. I used a hole saw behind the seat, and used 1-1/4" hose to route into the original tahoe tank. I used one of the ports as a vent, which seems to have a check valve on it

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

i scrubbed up the old bench, and it actually came back to life pretty good! i just scrubbed it with dish soap and a scrubbie, and it got most of the stains.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

got the interior together enough...

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

and then...time to take it for a spin! it was dark, i had no headlights. so i just took it for a couple quick donuts behind the shop. it seems like it revs clean and drives nice so far!

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

The most exciting part of all was seeing it with the new wheels and tires! After waiting almost 2 months, they finally came in.

I got american racing Baja’s with 35x12.50 17 tires. And I absolutely love the stance. I don’t have the bed on yet, but it is about 81” to the top of the cab. I expect this to settle just a little bit, but that gives you guys some perspective on how it sits.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

And now I am jumping into the transfer case wiring. I carefully pulled the wiring harness out of the tahoe, and swapped everything over. I found all the schematics of the transfer case control module and then hooked everything up one by one. And I had no life.

It was driving me bonkers for a few reasons.
First of all, I did not have the serial data wire hooked up. I didn’t know it wouldn’t work without this. So after some googling, I hooked that up. I dug out the evap pin out of the old harness and pinned that into the second serial data slot in the PCM.
The second thing that had me screwed up was the fact that I did not realize that the engine had to be running for the transfer case module to shift. So I monkeyed with it for hours trying to chase down problems. I had the key in the run position, so I assumed it would work. WRONG. Anyhow, the next think, I thought I had either a bad module or switch. Maybe I damaged something when I tore it apart. So I went to the junkyard and got a used one of each. I swapped them over, still nothing. So I eventually came up with the idea of starting it…WHOA! IT WORKS! Kinda. I think I still have a bad switch because it will work for a bit, and then just die. So who knows what that is about. But I ordered a replacement switch, so I am hoping this will solve the last of my issues.

Next step, bed assembly, wheel alignment, and CRUISE!

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

and in the middle of all this, i decided it was time to check off a major bucket list item. I made my way to Dino's Git Down. and WOW was that ever cool. I even managed to get a pic with the big cat himself! What a cool guy. Just so kind. He listened to me ramble about my build. took a couple quick pics, and off he went.

there was just SO much to see down there. But i can say one thing. there sure were not many short box fleetside 60-66 trucks there! I think i only saw 3 or 4. but talk about a cool event.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

Wow, you stepped on the gas there,
it looks great and works, congratulations.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

It is really coming together. I give you a lot of credit for blending the two trucks and getting all the wiring bugs worked out. That will be a cool truck once it is finished.
Rob

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

The first thing I jumped back into was the transfer case writing. It was driving me absolutely bonkers. I went on all data, I got the schematics, and I went wire by wire through the entire thing. I had a few issues. The first issue was that I did not have the serial data wire hooked up. No big deal…I just jumped a wire from the serial data wire in the TCCM into the OBD2 port, as this is where the serial data goes. I wasn’t sure if I had life or not yet, but now I had some sort of volatage happening in the TCCM, where before, it was all just dead.
So I knew I was on the right track. I had everything wired temporarily and I had assumed that things would work if I had power to the unit and the ignition was on.
Well folks…this was the main problem the entire time. As a complete coincidence, I fired the thing up to move it so I could sweep the floor…and to my complete and utter surprise, the switch came to life and the damn thing started working.

So lesson learned… for anyone attempting this same thing, the TCCM needs data that the engine is actually running before it will do anything. Having the ignition on is not the same thing, and you will beat your head against a wall for days on end trying to figure out what you did wrong.
So after this, I tucked all the wires up as tidy as I could, and I zip tied the original switch under the dash. I will clean this up eventually, but for now, this will work.

A lot of the wiring has been this way because I need to figure out what needs to go where before I can clean it up and tidy it up.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

The next thing I jumped into was the front bumper. I learned that there is a significant difference between the 60-62 bumper and the 63-66 bumpers. The kit said 60-66 would work, and I learned very quickly that it would not.

I had the original bumper which was all bent and mangled, so I straightened it the best I could. You could tell that someone had got this truck stuck and some point, and tried pulling off the bumper with a chain at some point in its life. So that made mounting the bumper a bit challenging…
My plan here is to just buy a 63-66 set of bumpers, and everything will bolt right in, but for now, I decided to make a set of mounts to use the bumper that I have. I copied the same design that the kit has, utilizing a plate that mounts to the bulkhead with a tab that sticks straight out. I then made two tabs that bolted to the bumper, I clamped these to the bulkhead mount I made, I wrestled with it until I had it as straight as I could get it, and then tacked it into place, and took it apart to final weld it. I think it turned out as good as a person could expect with an old mangled bumper

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

front bumper tab

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

front bumper mounted

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

I added a bung for the vent from the fuel tank. I simply got a 1/4NPT tab, and made a quick bung in my lathe, and welded it into the filler adapter that I made. I dumped a jerry can in the fuel tank and had no leaks. So I called this a win and moved on

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

As a fellow K10 owner (66 K10 Suburban), I appreciate all the fine work you are doing with this truck, thanks for sharing.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

completed filler assembly

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

Pretty standard stuff here. For now, I just ripped a sheet of plywood down, used the dimensions from the internet, gave it a quick sand and seal, and called it good. A million carriage bolts later, this was the bed result. I did mess up the dimensions for behind the stake pockets, so this will have to be something I fix eventually, but for now, it works. I did not receive the bolts for bolting the bed to the frame in the kit, and there was supposed to be a spacer for the rear of the bed, which I did not receive either, but I just made one that fit and moved along.

to lift the bed, I used my engine hoist and the cab lifter 9000. I just used some poly rope in the stake pockets and it lifted it all up no problem. it was a bit heavier in the front than the rear, but i just used a ratchet strap to balance it out and it worked okay.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

So this is the part I am most excited about. I got the bed mounted and pulled her out of the shop to look at it for the first time. Man…was I excited. She looked good, she sounded good. All was well. So I took it for spin around the block.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

and then straight to the alignment shop

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

and then...most importantly...to the pub

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

I have a lot of things I need to fix and figure out, but all in all...it runs and drives! and mostly all the major systems work as intended. I'll drive it for a few days and report back.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

Much appreciated friend! I would highly recommend this swap. It really wasn’t that hard if you have basic fab skills. I did learn a lot of lessons along the way, so a second one would be way faster and easier.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

Oh yes. She also now has a name. Apparently all women seem to think this is the same colour as the Tiffany jewelery box. One of my friends started calling her Tiffany, and it just kinda stuck.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

Respect and congratulations on this fantastic truck, have fun with it.
You did a great job.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

Thank you friend!

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

A few things that I noticed driving it so far.

I took her straight to the alignment shop, and got that all sorted out. And it drives pretty good! It is a little stiffer than I thought it would be. I think the extra weight of the tahoe probably softened the ride up a lot. But first impressions are pretty good!


The brake pedal feel is really really firm. I can probably change this some with where I mount the attachment point on the brake pedal. I had moved it down some to change the pedal ratio. so I am not sure if this made the firm feeling better or worse. I will try moving it back to the original hole on the pedal and see if that changes it.

I don’t have torque converter lock up. So I will have to figure that out eventually. I can feel it shift into 4th, but I never get lock up. I am really hoping that is something simple like I dont have a fuse going to the power it needs to see the signal. But I also did change torque converters, so who knows what it could be. I'll check wiring first, and go from there.


I really don’t care for the sound of the single super 44. I like how it sounds at idle, but I really do not care for it under throttle. It's hard to describe, but it sounds really rattly.
I have flowmaster delta flow 50's on my other truck, and I really like them, but they are a true dual set up. so I don't really know how much that will change things. Either way, I am planning to change all this over the winter anyhow. I have a full stainless exhaust with headers that I am planning to install, but the plan right now is to learn how to TIG much better than I can right now, and then attempt fabricating this. I signed up for welding classes on weld coach online, so we will see how that goes.


I have a LOT of work on the tune to do. I got it good enough to get it running after the cam swap, but there is still a ton of work to be done. I contacted a local guy to help me with a tune. He sent me a tune file, and the thing would not even run. So I sent him the data log, and he said my fuel system was not hooked up correctly. I told him it couldn’t be, because I didn’t touch the fuel system at all. Everything from the pump to the lines to the injectors and rails are all still bone stock. So his next idea was to check the O2 sensors. He said to use genuine GM or AC Delco seonsors. Parts store brands like NTK have given him a ton of trouble in the past. So I ordered up some replacements.

But all in all, she runs pretty good! You can tell the parts of the tune that work good and the ones that don’t. From idle to 2500, it runs like garbage. From 2500-4000 it goes pretty good, and then past 4000 it falls on its face. But the potential is there!

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

Well this is interesting…
As you will recall from my last post, I was having issues with the O2 sensors. The tuner guy gave me part number of what I needed to order. With the part number in hand, I went to my local GM dealer. I ordered up the part, and they told me that they would be there in a few days.

SO back I go to the GM dealer a few days later. I ordered two…they only shipped one. No big deal. They had one at a dealer about 45 minutes away. Back in the truck I go, off to the next dealer. I pick up my part, and head back to the shop. I crawl under the truck…unhook the old sensor…FFS…the guy gave me the wrong part number. I had a male square 4 pin, I needed a female square 4 pin. ARGHH!

So this time, I decide to go to amazon for the parts. I order up the correct part numbers. And I wait another week. I pop in the new sensors…fire it up, pull it out of the shop…AND THEN…

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

As I am backing it out of the door, i hear a pop, followed by the immediate whine of my power steering pump, and a plume of white smoke from under the hood...

If anyone with hydroboost experience can chime in here, i would appreciate it, but it looks like the accumulator blew off? It was cock-eyed, and thats where the fluid was coming from. It was a brand new unit from amazon, so I cant figure out why this happened, other than it was just a cheap quality reman or something.

I pulled it back into the shop, parked it, and pouted for the last week.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

Alright, so i realize i left you guys hanging for a bit here, but I will get at some updates.

The brake issue I had was probably just due to a cheap reman hydroboost unit that I bought off amazon. It blew the accumulator off, which, as far as I can tell, nobody I have ever talked to has ever heard of.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

So the whole reason I got a new one was becasue I took the old one apart, and parts flew everywhere. And of course, in doing so, i lost all kinds of stuff. But, i had the parts to make one out of two, so thats what i did.

I learned really quick that you need to pay attention to putting the booster back together properly. One small thing out of position, makes it do all kinds of strange stuff.

I had it back together, fired it up, and the brake would immediately go to the floor on its own.

google told me i had something together wrong, and I sure did. There is a fork that is really easy to have come out of position on you.
which you can see in the pictures below.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

So with the brakes all together, it came time to do an actual tune on the thing. I am a complete rookie at HP tuners, so I got enough of a tune in it to get the thing running, and thats about it.

In the beginning, it was doing some really strange stuff on me. It would stall, and run really rough.

Talking to the local tuner I was using, he asked what brand of O2 sensors I was running. I got mine fromt he local parts store, and he said I needed to use AC Delco sensors, as this was probably the root cause of the rough running.

I was skeptical, but I went ahead and followed his advice.

And wouldn’t you know it. it started running better immediately!

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

So, I took it for another quick test run, and I was rather disappointed in the performance.

It would absolutely not downshift on its own, and it immediately was short shifting gears into 4th, and would not lock the converter. So it was really laggy.

The tuner and I both were scratching our heads, trying to figure this one out. Nothing we could do would make it behave correctly. He changed the shift tables to crazy settings to try to keep it from doing this, and no change.

His advice after reading through the data logs was that I must have hooked something up wrong, because the transmission just wasn’t listening to what it was being told.

So I had a long think about it...then I realized what might be the problem.

Based on some (incorrect) information on the internet that I had read, I had grounded one particular wire from the transfer case module to the PCM. Particularly, pin 16 on the green connector. This wire provides a ground from the TCCM to the PCM when the system is in 4 low, and I had (incorrectly) assumed that the computer would be smart enough to understand what range it was in because of the serial data communication. So I simply grounded this wire and moved along.

Having this wire ran straight to ground was fooling the PCM into thinking the transfer case was in low, and that was the cause of my problems. It was grabbing the 4 low shift tables, instead of the regular shift tables.

I simply unhooked that wire, and took it for another rip...and let me tell you...it was a DIFFERENT MACHINE.
Keeping in mind it was -15 celcius that day, or 5F, so the roads and tires were a bit on the cold side, but wow…it would light the tires up all the way through first no problem. The converter locked up no problem on the highway, and everything was working as it should! I was REALLY pleased with how it handled. It rode a little bit rough, so I decided to drop the tire pressure from 45lbs down to 30lbs, and that made all the difference in the world. It now rode and drove exactly how I wanted it to.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

It's nice to hear that they're gradually working through their little problems and that the truck is so much fun.

Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
 

Well I can tell you, there are a lot of little bugs to figure out on this thing. But...It seems to be worth it!