Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Actually, it is the same hydrobooster that we are used to seeing in GM trucks. The difference is 1981 and newer hydroboosters have metric fittings (M16 & M18) whereas the older ones had standard fittings (3/8 & 7/16). Really, it didn’t matter which hydrobooster I went with because one hose would have to be converted to a basterd anyway being the late model p/s pump has metric fittings and the steering gear is standard. So, either I went with a standard thread hydrobooster and rework the hose for the p/s pump or use the metric hydrobooster and rework the p/s hose that goes to the steering gear. Same deal either way.

We solved the problem Saturday by cutting the metric tube nut off the booster to gear hose then added a standard tube nut and reflared it. Same deal that I had to do when I first installed this exact late model p/s pump on Gen VI 454HO that I installed back in 2003. Just one of the hassles of these type custom dealeos. Thanks for the offer though.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Good! Hope it wasn't too much of a headache! One question, is your 8.1L set any further back than what was originally in your truck, I kinda wanna see where your shifter ends up being located.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

The 8.1L sits in the same spot as the 454 and 350 before it. Even used the same engine mounts. Didn’t even have to do any exhaust work going from the 454 to the 8.1L

Hoping to get the trans stabbed this week so we’ll know soon where the shift tower will end up.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Here tis…..

465 before it came out
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1416/...e0f30968_b.jpg

465
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5124/...626e4ee8_b.jpg

NV4500. Looks as though the shift tower sits back about 4 inches.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5164/...751007b5_b.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/...51a4bce4_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5284/...54b7e234_b.jpg


I am not happy with the AA 205 shifter bracket being the floor will have to be hacked up to make room for the lever so I have an email into ORD to have a twin stick made. Not that I really want a twin stick, I just want the lever to land in a nice spot and not wobble all over the place.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Are you happy with where the shift knob is? It will be a relief if I don't have to do too much modification to get it in a comfortable and good looking location in my 70.

205 shift lever... I had thought about making my own bracket to locate the shifter where I wanted it... its a little more fab but I am NOT going to even consider a twin stick. It just wouldnt look right. On IH pick-ups they had divorced 205s, the shifter was mounted on a bracket off the frame and it had a tierod that went back to the t-case

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Won’t really know until I get the seats back from the upholstery shop and bolted in. From eyeballing the shifter, it looks to be in a decent location so far. I wasn’t keen on a twin stick either until I saw how this AA shifter deal was going to work out. I would rather have an ORD twin stick than deal with the AA or fab my own. I have 100% faith in ORD products.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Larry, it's looking great! That really stinks about the ZF pump not fitting.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

i've got an ORD twin stick that i'll install when i do the body work. looks like good craftsmanship.

do you have a bench or buckets Larry?

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Yeah, I talked with Steve Watson today at ORD and they have a nice twin stick kit that will work well behind the NV4500. I have a lot of their parts already (rear shackle flip, rear HD shackles, front shackles, sway bar disconnect, steering box brace and HD engine crossmember) and have been impressed with their service and quality. I could really careless about a twin stick shifter as I have yet to be in a position where I think it would have helped…..but, I like the position and durability of their twin stick kit over the AA POS.

The seats are buckets picked from a 1991 Suburban. Installed them a couple years ago but they are light gray and way off in color from the rest of the interior so I have had them covered up with Cabala’s seat covers since then. The fabric is actually in really nice shape under the seat covers but they are broken down quite a bit and the arm rests are toast. Since everything is apart might as well get them redone so they match everything else. Going all vinyl with fabric down the center and pockets sewed into the seat backs (Need a place to store more crap when we are the trail). Might even do a “GM Powertrain Vortec 8100” logo in the seat back if this guy can convert the media logos I have from my work to a usable format for his embroidery machine. Basically, the same logo that is on the engine cover. The interior pictures with the bucket seats before the tear down are on page 1 of this tread.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Wow you really have a great thread going here! Nice to see exactly how this is done! My friend and I have been talking about doing this in his pickup but weren't too sure if the AA kit was worth it or not. Seems like it's not as easy as it should be for the price huh? Also I like the engine you have in there, what kind of mileage do you get with the 8.1?

Just a little info I gathered when doing my hydroboost setup, I was told by my buddy (builds lots of LS based buggys) that the stock GM P-pump will be more than enough to handle the hydroboost system, but putting a good cooler on it is the key. Also if you do want to go with an upgraded pump the TC pump is the way to go, and it will handle hydro assist if you decide to do that in the future. I put a larger pulley on my TC just to keep the pressures down a little at since they are rated at something like 1300 psi and the stock GM boxes usually only have something like 850 going to them. We used Howe Performance for all of our power steering products and they are just flat out awesome.

Just thought I'd share some of that with you, and great work! Cant wait to see this done! Bummer about the t-case shifter :(

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Thanks!

I never checked the fuel mileage but it is definitely better than the carbureted 350 and 454 before it. My 2001 Silverado with an 8.1L gets around 10-13 MPG and my other 6.0L Silverado doesn’t do any better.

I agree, the original pump is more than capable of handling hydroboost. I just wanted the ZF pump in case I go the route of a hydraulic winch. These exact commercial grade HD ZF pumps are also used as standalone pumps on wrecker bodies, small dump beds, etc Thanks for the info! I keep those guys in mind.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Larry, I'm glad you're doing this right before I am. I have a 89 v3500 with the th400/205 combo behind the 454 and the 7 hour ride back and forth to college at 60 mph is getting old, not just for me but for my engine. I bought a nv4500 from a 98 GMC so I can swap the input shaft when I have the opportunity to dump a cummins in it. The trans came with the bellhousing, so I figured I'd get a flywheel for the 2 piece rear-main 454 and a pressure plate for the internal slave cylinder like the 98 bellhousing is set up for. I managed to score the stock hydro clutch/brake pedal assembly off craigslist and I bought this http://advanceadapters.com/product/5401/50-6910.html
for an adapter between the nv4500 and the 205.
Just curious if you had any words of wisdom before I tackle this.

O, and are your shifter measurements from the firewall? Maybe I didn't read carefully enough but I didn't see where the front of your tape measure is.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

That sounds like a nice plan. I have an internal slave type bellhousing lying around as well but I am not a big fan of that design as I have seen too many internal slaves leak ruining clutch disks. The internal slaves are also famous for causing stiff pedals when the fluid gets super hot when working the truck hard in hot weather. Even my 2001 HD with the ZF 6 speed gets a hard pedal when pulling trailers on a hot day. Being my ’78 K10 sees a lot of desert off-roading action in the summer I didn’t want to run the risk of overheating the internal slave causing a fluid leak and losing the clutch in the middle of nowhere.

The only words of wisdom is to do a lot of research, take your parts budget and labor time and double it, as something always comes up that eats up more time or cost twice as much. I look forward to your thread once you start your project.

The measurements were taken from here…..
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5169/...dec3d4a8_b.jpg

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Been crazy busy lately with little time to work on the project. I am without adult supervision for a week while the wife went to Florida to visit her parents for Christmas so the next 7 day should be pretty productive for me!

Plans over the next few days are to finish up the rust repair on the floorboards and front cab supports, finish the modifying and install the transmission cross members, install the ORD twin stick shifter (Wow, that looks like a Chinese finger puzzle!) and get the shafts measure and set off to the driveline shop. The upholstery guy said it will be 3 weeks! before the seats will be done so the truck may have to go to the Rhino line shop on the trailer.

I finally got the hydrobooster lines installed tonight. So far no leaks with the system full of fluid but we’ll see once the system is pressurized. Ended up having to have both hydrobooster lines reworked by the local hydraulic shop due to the metric fittings at the booster, standard steering gear as well as the odd ball bend to get into the 8.1L P/S pump.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5201/...a7cc072e_b.jpg

Waiting on a cross member. Not too sure about AA’s square stock tube idea for a trans mount adapter.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5288/...8480489e_b.jpg

P/S cooler and fresh Argent paint in the head light bezels buckets to match the OEM grill I am planning to go back to. I think that is how they were originally (I swear my dad’s ’78 K20 had Argent headlight bezels when it was new).
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5090/...0faf88c6_b.jpg

You can see paint chips where this truck was originally Colonial Yellow. The ironic thing is my dad’s K20 wrecker that I inherited is also Colonial Yellow.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Subscribed as well. Can't wait to do this swap in my 69...once I gather the money and then the parts. Awesome thread.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Got a lot done the last few days the wife has been out of town. My buddy Bill, who is a much better fabrication that I, did a great job on the rear trans mount. Rather that move the cross member back a few inches and drill 8 new holes in the frame he fabbed up a bracket where the trans cross member was able to stay in the original spot.

Had a hell of a time bleeding the clutch and finally determined Napa gave me a bad clutch master cylinder. Not only did it not build pressure but the rod was 1” longer than the right master cylinder. It must have been misboxed as the first one and the latest one were the same part number but physically different.

Also got the driveshafts reworked Thursday. The front shaft had to be lengthened and the rear had to be shortened. I had been running a bastard u-joint to use the 1/2 ton driveshaft with the 14FF every since the axle was installed 15 years ago (I only broke 1 of those bastard U-joints in 15 years and that was right after the 8.1L was installed). Since the shaft was going through surgery I had them change the shaft end so I can run a standard big beefy solid cross lube for life u-joint.

All the fluid are topped off with no visible leaks yet. All that really needs to be done is install the ORD twin shifter, front shaft, skid plate and finish up the rust repair on the floorboard then ship it off the Rhino line shop. One drag is I won’t see the seats for a few more weeks.

Oh, yeah….a gallon of Syncromesh fluid for the NV4500 was $51! That is crazy!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5086/...7bd8621c_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5285/...a0fcbbc3_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5081/...8962c3be_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5206/...3c2e2a4e_b.jpg

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Looking good, Larry! I think I saw your YouTube video that explains the 1 broken u-joint. Sometimes you have to let the horses run. Happy Holidays.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Larry, is that the stock sm465 crossmember? I cant tell because of your fresh black paint, but that 2 inch box tubing is just bolted to the bottom of the nv4500 and not one of your adaptor plates, correct?

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Yep, that is the stock 465 cross member and location. The square stock was part of the AA kit. For some reason they chose to make their tail shaft extension different enough from the GM/Dodge tail shaft extension where the stock NV4500 trans mount won’t work. We just added flat plate and gussets to the square stock. It worked out very well and looks more than strong enough for the job. Post 94 has a better picture of the square stock that came in the AA kit.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Looks good Larry. You get package?

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Yes, sir. It looks great. Thanks for that! Have a Merry Christmas!

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

First thing this is a great thread. You pushed me over the edge to get going on mine. So i want to back up a bit. On the nv4500 adapter to the np205 why did you chose not to upgrade the 27 spline in the np205 to a 32 spline also did you look at the adapter that north west fab makes ?

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Thanks! Funny you should ask about the splines. :lol: I had originally planned on converting the original 10 spline 205 to 32 but a complete 27 spline 205 from a 1972 K20 TH350/205 popped up on Craigslist for $25! The goal was to get away from the old school manual trans 10 spline that are notoriously sloppy (and mine was very sloppy!). In order for me to convert my old 10 spline to 32 some machine work needs to be done to the tcase housing. For the price of the 27 spline 205 I don’t feel spending several hundred more dollars to buy a 32 spline gear then pay a machinest to rework my case only to get 5 additional splines was really worth it. Again, the main goal was to get away from the sloppy course 10 spline while doing the OD swap.

With this AA kit, it isn’t a true 32 spline anyway once you hack off the trail shaft of the NV4500. With this kit you cut off the 32 spline portion of the output shaft and use the big 31 spline cog that is just behind the 5th gearset. You almost have to go to AA’s website and download their install instructions to understand what I am talking about. The good thing about this AA kit is that it eliminates any future potential of the 5 year nut backing as the 31/27 spline coupler holds 5th gear in place where the entire contraption is held together by the tcase to transmission tailshaft housing union.

Sure it would be nice to have a 32 spline but I think the entire 32 spline fad is often overrated. Just like everybody tripping over themselves spending thousands of dollars on front Dana 60’s. Sure, I want one too but refuse to pay the price of admission when a built D44 driven by a skilled driver has worked fine for 15 years even with over 400HP under the hood. My truck see more true off-road action in the middle of nowhere CO mountains to the deserts of AZ and UT than most 4x4’s on this board that are packing D60s and 32 spline transmissions to tear up corn fields, power line roads or the local drunk fest mud drag. That said, I don’t foresee the lack of 5 splines being a huge deal for a real world off-road truck. ;)

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Thanks for the reply that helped a lot.
I just picked up a nv4500 and I already have a 27 spline np205.I also have a D60 but feel it's over kill and kinda wish I had a big hub D44.
Back in the day I had a 84 3/4 4x4 that I abused. Hurt the engine twice,three clutches one front axle u joint and the rear yoke on the rear. It had a sm465 with a np208 and never had one problem with the trans or transfer.I used to drag race on asphalt, pulled in the 6,500 sled class and 4 wheel in the local rock quarry.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Put the eggnog down Larry and show us the goods.:mm:

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

I hear that! :lol: I’ve been so busy being on vacation I haven’t had a chance to work on it since the 23rd. Didn’t get anything done Christmas Eve or Christmas day then went snow wheeling with buddies Sunday. Monday I went to Denver to visit a custom camper manufacturer (having a custom popup camper built for this truck. More coming on that soon. It will be similar to a Four Wheel Camper) and Tuesday had to pick the wife up from the airport.

Planning to finish up the crossmember fit and finish, fuel lines and harness routing and clipping then install the ORD shifter and front driveshaft tomorrow. Then hopefully finish up the floor board rust repair over the weekend to get it ready for Rhino lining. Still won’t see the seats for a few more weeks.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

I was gonna head down to Pueblo west today to pick up a parts 205... aint happinen! You guys getting Snow? Hope he doesnt sell it before I get there!

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

dose that nv 4500 have the same bolt pattern on the bellhousing as the sm465? i am getting ready to do the same swap in my 89 crewcab and my truck has the slave cylinder on the drivers side. thanks

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Ah, man…..we actually left PW to head to Colorado Springs at 2:30 this afternoon to pick up the wife’s car from the dealer. It is now 8:10 and we just got home! What a mind numbing trip! The roads were terrible until the Walmart in PW. After that everything is dry as a bone.

I have my old 465/205 on CL. Maybe it is me you are coming to see? :lol:

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

No sir

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

no its this one

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/pts/2113990478.html

i saw yours (recognized it from one of your pics) I mya consider it if i cant get this one

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Ah, yeah….I remember seeing that one on CL for a while now. The broken input shaft and incorrect tcase model listed in the title are memorable. For $25, you can’t go wrong with that one if you are just looking for bits and pieces.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

It was a productive couple days.

Shifter is in after spending practically a full day figuring it out, chasing bolts and making adjustments. Keep in mind, ORD doesn’t really have a NV4500/205 twin stick kit for AA pieces. They basically sent a modified 205 doubler 3 stick kit and tweaks had to be made from there. It seems to have worked out well. Can’t wait to drive it and see how well it really works. I love ORD pieces, they do a great job with everything they build!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5245/...620606ae_b.jpg

Had to trim the floor slightly. Will weld up the little slits shortly.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5087/...33388b68_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5246/...ffceb3df_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5204/...1a5c8740_b.jpg

Here is one of the spacers we used to drop the cross member in order to keep the same working angles as the SM465. The cross member stayed in the original location.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5010/...5815b6fe_b.jpg

Most of the work under the truck is complete. Pretty much just have to connect the park brake cables and the underside will be done (need to get a new Left rear brake cable though).
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5170/...067286ee_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5290/...79130148_b.jpg

Next up…….. Finish up the turtle shell work to accommodate the shifters and new bezels, finish up the rust repair, install the cluster and interior electrical connections for the dual battery isolator, fuel transfer pump, etc.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Looks real good, Larry. I really like how that shifter setup turned out. Are the disc brakes on hold for the time being? Have you ever had trouble with the angle of your O2 sensor? Mine is about the same since I would have had to drop the exhaust to drill the hole for the bung...
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

What type of support are you going to use for the np205.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Yeah good question. Where on the tcase did you bolt the second the xmember to Larry? What did you take that xmember from? I was going to customize something but maybe your route would be easier.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

The 205 is mounted just like it was before. No support other than bolted to the transmission adapter. The second cross member bolts to the frame behind the transfercase for the sole purpose of giving the skid plate something to mount to. The NV4500 swap did not change anything with cross member locations or the way the 205 was supported. That part is all the same.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

ok. your not using the tcase torque arm either?

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Do you see it in the pictures? :lol: Nope, never had one with the original TH350/203 or with the swapped in 465/205. My dad’s K20 (SM465/NP205) is all stock underneath and it doesn’t have one. The donor truck I got the 465/205 from back in 1998 didn’t have one either. I haven’t actually seen many with them other than newer trucks with 208 and 241’s.

Started laying out where the shifter bezels and boots will lie which lead to changing the rods below a bit.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5247/...a96bbab8_b.jpg

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

With the second crossmember you could use or fab something like this http://www.tmrcustoms.com/store/inde...roducts_id=736