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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Dang....that K5 is bad ass looking. What tires were you running on it in the last picture?
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Don't remind me :( Those were 33x10.5 TSL Swampers on 15x8 rims I had on the blazer.
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Man, we had to sell the '65 I had, but it's great to see you're still working on yours. Good luck, I'm still tuned in =)
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Got just a few things done on the truck today. Picked up some metal at the local shop to make mounts for my power steering box, hydrobooster, and clutch master cylinder. I've seen many designs by others for each of these but decided to try out a couple different ideas.
The only thing I really had to to do today was to weld on the power steering mount bosses that I made from some 1/2" plate. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...ounts%2001.jpg http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...ounts%2002.jpg http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...ounts%2003.jpg One lesson I learned today was not to weld (especially with flux core) without a your long sleeve welding shirt on. :dohh: |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
I like that idea, I picked up an adapter plate for my 68, basically does the same thing but isn't as HD looking as yours.
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Been making some slow progress the past few weeks, but I had a few days off and I'm excited that I'm able to start actually putting things back together...
I modified and fitted the rear spring hangers from the 73 to my 66 frame. This will allow me to use standard 1-1/2" OD x 9/16" ID rubber (or poly) bushings rather than a solid bronze bushing. I actually kinda like the idea of the solid bronze bushing but I think the rubber will wear better and last longer. This also lowers the spring mounting position compared to the stock 60-66 and should allow me to get rid of the huge 6" factory block. I also painted the five main crossmembers, built some wooden frame stands and bolted the main frame back together. Its starting to feel like an actual pickup again! :metal: http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...Frame%2001.jpg (excuse my neighbor's trash heap next door) http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...Frame%2002.jpg I contemplated doing a 52" spring swap up front. But the stock rear spring rates seem to be considerably lower than standard front spring rates, and I read that the truck may be a little too bendy and flexy for street driving and towing. So I'm sticking with the Rancho lift springs I have up front. I'm in the process of building a new front hanger to use a 9/16" bolted rubber bushing, and I'm modifying the rear shackle hanger to get rid of the really weird screw-in bushings that were on it and go to a standard 1-1/2" rubber bushing, same as on the rears. This leaves only the rear of front leaf bushing which for some reason has a weird 1.13" eye. I'll need to source a rubber bushing from somewhere in that size. (anybody have any good sources for bushings?) That's about it for now. I'm anxious to get the springs and axles under it. Maybe next weekend. I'm still contemplating pickup up a Dana 60 for the front, mainly just for the bigger front brakes and the bling factor. :D |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
I taught you good:ito:
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Quote:
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Nice work. What are you using for leaf springs in the back? Also, you said you got front leafs from Rancho that lift the front using the stock hanger locations? What do you want to end up for lift when you put it back together? sorry about the questions, but you are doing something similier to what I may go with on my 64 short box 4x4. thanks:chevy:
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
gmjim,
The rear leafs are stock GM springs off of the 73 K20 donor: 6 leafs + 1 overload, 52" long, 2-1/2" wide. The front leafs had already been swapped onto my 66 when we picked it up. They are Rancho 41054S: 5 leafs, 44" long, 2-1/2" wide. I think this is an obsolete spring because I've had a tough time finding any info on it. A quick google search gave me some info that these may be a 4" lift spring for a 72 pickup, with a spring rate of 720 lb/in. The fronts hangers will retain that stock locations, being that stock springs were 44" long too. I'm not really sure what the end result lift will be when I'm done. For starters, I have no reference for a 66 with stock springs. But also I've now got this mix of leaf springs and hangers. What I can tell you is I laid out the rear spring hanger locations to maintain geometry similar to stock, they just hang the spring lower. I know the front will sit about the same as in the photos on page 3 of this thread. Maybe slightly lower once the all steel big block goes in, but with this super stiff front springs it won't be much. The rear is a wait and see game. If it doesn't sit level I'll have to look into getting some 2" or 4" lift springs for the rear. Unfortunately I won't have these answers for a couple months until I get the powertrain and body back on it. Keep the questions coming. Hopefully at least one other person can benefit from the tings I've had to figure out for my build. :) |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Received my big box of polyurethane bushings today! After much deliberation earlier this week I decided to go ahead and diverge from my usual preference and give the Poly a shot. That means body mounts bushings, motor mounts, transmission mounts, transfer case mounts, and leaf spring bushings. They're not too high a durometer and more pliable than I expected, which is a good thing.
Right now I'm focused on the getting the chassis reassembled and rolling again. So I had the rubber bushings pressed out of my springs and pulled them apart to prep them for some clean-up and paint. I picked up a slew of plastic pads for the leaf tips a while back, but I'm not sure how it is going to go drilling holes in the leafs... we'll see. I'm also not sure about restoring the leaf packs. It seems like any coating I put on will just get rubbed off pretty quickly; Or maybe it won't if I can get the low friction pads mounted in the leaf tips. Anyway, I also picked up some various 3/16" plate and made plans to fab new spring and shackle hangers for the front springs. I'm going to all this trouble because the 66 and earlier trucks use a different combination of bushing dimensions and materials than the typical later model trucks. And I plan on using these bushings that are easier and cheaper to come by. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...%20Hangers.png |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Looking forward to your fabrication skills with the hangers. Excellent job you did on the frame for the steering gear. Frame looks like it did while still on the assembly line, actually better I think with the new bolts in it. Great work you are doing here.
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Thanks for the kind words, Quadzero.
Its been so dang hot here in the southland that I haven't had a lot of motivation to be outside or in my hot garage cutting, grinding and welding. I did get a few plates cut over the weekend. And I started drilling my springs for the tip inserts. Today when I got home form work I burned a few plates together. It came out pretty well. Now I just need to cut out the side plates/gussets and weld them on and the fronts will be done. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...ngers%2001.jpg |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
I finished welding up the front spring and shackle hangers last night. And I got my poly bushings machined over the weekend so that they all fit 2-1/2" wide leaves and 3" wide hangers. That means the fronts use the same bushings as the rears, except for the rear of front spring eye, which is only 1-1/8" OD instead of 1-1/2" OD.
I'm a beginner fabricator, so the welds could look better. But I made a few section cuts and the penetration is good. I used 3/16" material instead of 1/4" like most aftermarket stuff. I felt the 3/16" was strong enough, especially with so much gusseting and boxing. Time will tell. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...%20Hangers.jpg http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...%20Hangers.jpg Last weekend I tried to drill my leafs for little slider butttons at the ends, but it turns out drilling a 1/2 hole in spring steel is a pretty tough on bits. I even chipped the carbide bit that my machinist gave to me. I hate to be a quitter, but I think I might be stuck unless I find a local spring shop that can punch the holes. Oh well, can't win 'em all. Now I'm just waiting for some greaseable bushing bolts and caliper bracket for the 14 bolt to come in from diy4x so I can get the chassis back on the axles and rolling around again. |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Spent the day getting the front spring and shackle hangers on, in addition to some poly bushings and grease-able bolts.
http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...nsion%2002.jpg http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...nsion%2003.jpg http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...nsion%2004.jpg I also switched my 14B rear to a disk brake setup. Used a DIY4X bracket, 3/4 ton front rotors, and some wheel studs from a SRW one ton. I put new seals in the hubs and cleaned up the spindles, but regrettably I did not clean up the hub housing. I didn't feel like making a second trip back and forth to the shop after the drums were pressed off, so the hubs will stay a little rusty. Oh well. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...rakes%2001.jpg http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...rakes%2002.jpg http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...rakes%2003.jpg I also stripped and painted a few more parts today. doing a little at a time makes the tedious work more tolerable. Anyway, once the rear shackles dry I'll hang the front springs and get the axles back underneath it. Then it will officially become a K20 pickup! :sumo: |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Looking good.
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
I wanted it to be a one ton, but with all the other things still left to do on this pickup, I'll leave the Dana60 front swap for a future project.
Yes, I'm going to use the stock K10-20 parking brake setup. The brackets and lever arm are mounted to the back of the transfer case crossmember. I "borrowed" the brackets from my dad's pickup since his wasn't hooked up, and I'll be making duplicates for mine. And I'll use the eldorado calipers out back. I want to use the standard D52 calipers, same as the front, but then I wouldn't have a parking brake. |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Problem #1 of the day:
The center housing on the 14bolt is too wide, and the stock rear shock locations are too narrow. I would have to mount one of the shock tabs the the center casting on the left side. I'm not sure how I want to resolve this problem. I could a) make a whole new upper crossmember to for the upper mounts, moving the shocks outward more toward the insides of the frame, or b) try to mount the shocks outboard of the frame rails where there is a 3" gap between the frame side and the leaf spring. Problem #2 of the day: Like a genius, my new front spring hangers are in the way of the front bumper brackets. :( |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Solution #1:
I still don't have one yet. :rolleyes: At least not one that I love. But I have a few ideas and options. So I'll just get the rear axle cleaned and painted and mounted this weekend and come back to this later. Solution #2: I mounted the bumper and the discovered the solution will be an easy one. Just a few modifications to the bumper brackets and it should be fine. Anyway, in the mean time, I've been working on the front axle. Pulled it almost completely apart. At first I couldn't get the right side axle shaft out through the knuckle. Turns out there was a previous u-joint failure and it deformed the axle shaft ears. Luckily I have another Dana 44 from which I stole the short side axle shafts. New seals, new U-joints, rotors, hub flanges, etc are going in. And I got some new new spicer U-joints for all my axles and drive shafts in the mail yesterday! http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...20U-Joints.jpg Pressed the severly rusted U-joints out (needles bearings were spilling out like rain drops when I was getting them setup on the press), and cleaned them up. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...e%20Shafts.jpg Front drive shaft, rear drive shaft, and trans-transfer case prop shaft. With the 14B going in I think my rear drive shaft will need to be even shorter. I'm going to investigate using the double cardan front shaft from my 73 donor pickup as the rear shaft on the 66. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...riveshafts.jpg A mix of old U-joints. Some spicer, some cheapos, some sturdy looking ones that say made in Japan. Never the less all are puny compared to my beefy new Spicers. :) http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...20U-Joints.jpg I also picked up some drive flanges for the Dana 44 external hubs. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...e%20Flange.jpg I decided to pick up a rebuild kit for the Rockwell T-221 and tear into it. This way I won't have to worry about it exploding on me later. I'll be doing the same with the SM420. Here it is, being wheeled in and prepped for surgery this weekend. :devil: http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...T-221%2001.jpg Does anyone know, is this an original build placard, or is it a service placard? http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...T-221%2002.jpg |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Interestingly, while I assumed the 14Bolt would have a longer pinion than the 12Bolt, I just measured and found that they're ony different by about 1/4". Looks like I'll be able to use the stock rear drive shaft after all.
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
isn't the ujoint different size? If so they make an adapter u joint that's smaller on two lugs than the other.
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
You're correct. The 1/2 ton stuff is all 1310 series in and out or the transfer case and axles. The transmission, and the 3/4 ton rear axle uses 1350 series. I'd like to convert to all 1350 series, but that would require new, custom yokes for the transfer case and it's not in the budget for now. It'll go in the list for future projects. Anyway I did pick up the 1310 to 1350 conversion joint from Spicer. The only bad thing is that it is built like their older type u-joints and not the newer, stronger type.
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
I've created a monster:dig:
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Just about have everything cleaned up and ready to put back together. So close to getting this thing back on its feet, er, uh, wheels!
Only have to fix the hub selectors, and decide whether or not to machine the right side knuckle for crossover steering. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...0Hubs%2001.jpg http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...0Hubs%2002.jpg |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
It will turn better with cross over.
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Wow, now that's how you put back together anything. All clean and very well organized. Since you have gone this far, I say for sure go for the crossover steering. Seems to me you know what your doing and you have some great resources where you live. I would love to have the crossover system on my truck.
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
My only concern with the crossover is that I want to retain the use of a front sway bar, and I've heard that the difficult or impossible to do wit the stock front sway bar.
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
I believe that front sway bars did not come on trucks until 73 that's when they went to a longer front spring. Your not running a long front spring so you could get away with out one or depending on what oil pan you be running and exhaust you can run a custom one behind the axle.
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
James,
Good call. Although I have the 73 parts truck sitting right here I didn't realize the springs were 47" long versus 44" for the pre-73. You really think 3" shorter springs have that much torsional stiffness? I might look into the custom behind-the-axle option. You know any vendors? |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Right now I'm still in the middle of the front axle rebuild. Waiting to get my right hand knuckle back form the machinist and looking for the right (cost effective) crossover steering kit. I also had to repair my cracked and broken plastic hub lockout selectors. I had a steel tube turned down to loosely fit the id of the selectors, then epoxied it inside, and drilled the pin holes. Seems to work pretty well, and these type of lockouts are kind of rare.
The rear axle is done, except for the damper brackets. I also pulled apart the transfer case to inspect and reseal. It has been rebuilt before, and it does look like the rear bearing on the input shaft exploded once before because the rear bearing cap has a couple of ball shaped indentations in it... :eek: But the bearings and hard parts all look good. So I'm just replacing the oil seals and cutting new gaskets, since the guy at drivetrain.com said he can't get many of these parts anymore. I would like to put new shims in, but he said he can't get those either. Bummer. :( Doing the same to the SM420. so far the bearings and hard parts look decent so new seals and gaskets. In the mean time I just thought I'd outline a few part numbers in case someone else rebuilding similar stuff does a search! (in general Napa carries SKF parts, and Autozone carries Timken) Dana 44 Front Axle (with external hubs lockouts) - pinion seal: SKF #15788 - axle seal: SKF #13165 - hub outer seal (wheel seal): SKF #25077 - hub inner seal: SKF #22311 - the metal and fiber gaskets for the Spicer hub lockouts came from quad4x4.com, and they were a little pricey. Corporate 14 Bolt - pinion seal: SKF #21955 - wheel seal: SKF #28426 - axle flange gasket: SKF #55350 - wheel studs (with disk brake swap): Dorman #610-189 - brake rotor (3/4 ton front rotor): 4885677 SM420 - gasket kit: Fel-Pro #TS5100 - front oil seal: Timken #7412S, SKF #12363 - rear oil seal: Timken #9613S, SKF #22340 - clutch pilot bushing: Dorman #14650 Rockwell T-221 - yoke seals: Timken #472164, SKF - shifter seals: Timken #480954, SKF - input shaft bearings: --- front: Timken #207KD (with single shield) --- rear: Timken #206KD (with single shield) - idler shaft bearings: --- front: Timken #02467-02420 --- rear: Timken #15126-15245 - rear output shaft bearings: --- front: Timken #15126-15245 --- rear: Timken #15126-15245 - front output shaft bearings: -- front: Timken 207KG (with snap ring) -- rear: Timken 209KG (with snap ring) While I'm in the transmission and transfer case I'll try to pull out part numbers from on the bearings. |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Impressive! Very impressive, looking good Jason!!!! :metal: What part of the family did you take after to have all this talent? How come I can barely draw stick people?......and they don't even look good. :( :waah:
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Finally got my passenger side knuckle machined, ball joints pressed in, knuckles mounted, high steer arms installed, axles inserted, spindles loosely mounted... I need to strip and paint the caliper brackets so I can bolt them down with the spindles, I had completely forgotten about them! I also need to pick up a length of 1-1/4"x.125w DOM tube to make the drag link and tie rod.
http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...sover%2001.jpg Hub bearings are ready for grease packing tomorrow, and I reassembled the hub lockouts again after picking up some silicone grease to coat the ring seals on the plastic selectors. This should keep these seals alive for another 40 years. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...sover%2002.jpg Since I worked into the wee hours of the night it was too dark out for painting my caliper brackets. So I stayed inside, rearranged my work areas in the garage and started working on the transfer case. Lucky for me this T-221 is pretty immaculate inside now. But I didn't like the rtv type gasket sealer the previous rebuilder used on all the shim stacks and bearing caps. It was leaky and also the rtv that squished out was clogging up half of the oil passages to the bearing caps. I'll be using a spray on light copper gasket coating on the shims, and I'll be drawing out and cutting new paper gaskets/cork gaskets where they are needed. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...eseal%2001.jpg The shifter rod seals has been staked in (who the hell knows why) which I found unnecessary and quite annoying. Annoying because it deformed the boss for the seals which would damage new ones upon installation. I'll all for staking disposable parts, like nuts and washers and things, but If anything they should have used some that rtv here. Anyway I was able to use a small steel punch to work these out. A little more light sanding and I think the new seals will go in just fine. http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...osses%2001.jpg http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...osses%2002.jpg http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...osses%2003.jpg Got my space all set up to start cutting new gaskets tomorrow. Hopefully it'll all be back together by the end of the day. |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
I will never get tired of these progress updates. You are so organized and tidy you could be building something for NASA. Great idea with the notebook. Something so basic and simple and yet I have little notes and numbers on random pieces of paper and cigarette packs all over the kitchen. The cross over steering is looking really well, btw. Note to self: get a notebook!
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Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Thanks for the kind words, quadzero. I do have some college buddies that have worked for NASA, but I passed on that opportunity... :-P
But yeah, the notebook is key. I just write everything in there, anything I read or think of or research, ideas. Then i can always go back to it. It looks pretty disorganized, but at least all the info is in one spot. I got the transfer case mostly put back together. I think the copper gasket spray should work out pretty well. I also picked up a couple four foot lengths of DOM tube for the crossover/high steer. The front and rear axles are just about done, but my new lift springs are on back order until late October :(. I was planning on having this thing rolling around in a week. I may need to modify my plans. |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Finally the front is assembled. After all this, I just noticed one of my wheel studs has mashed threads...
But now both front and rear axles are ready to go back under the frame. If only the front springs weren't on back order for a month. Grrr http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...0Assembled.jpg I was cleaning out the garage on Monday night and I found an old pair of front tow hooks. I can't remember what these are off of. Any help here? http://jase-ace.com/public/photo/196...ow%20Hooks.jpg The hooks that were on my 73 parts truck were flat. These kind of kink out at a 45 degree angle. I thought the 71-72's had a hook that sort of curled outward and was more pointy. So I'm not sure the origin on these. Tomorrow night's work will be to button up the transfer case. I need to cut the gasket for the top inspection cover and drive in the new shift rod seals. |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
Ah, google says that those^ are 80-87 chevy hooks.
What do you guys think. Should I use those or flat 73-77 ones like these: http://www.bowtiebits.com/store/grap...duct_3644P.jpg I also didn't realize until just a couple of days ago that the 2wd and 4wd brake calipers are different. I assumed they were the same because I don't really see why GM would need to have two different castings. Now I won't be using the new ones from my 64 and it'll be one more thing I have to buy. blah. |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
These are '73-'80 Chevy/GMC and are a good stout tow hook:
http://www.bowtiebits.com/store/grap...duct_3644P.jpg |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
I finally buttoned up the axles today. Got everything torqued to spec, closed up the diffs, mounted the wheels and rolled them back under the chassis. It felt good to bolt them up and get to chassis back rolling on the ground! It looks like the front of the chassis sits about 2" higher then the rear right now. I need to mock up the motor, trans, and all the sheet metal onto the Fran to see how the ride highly site before I out new springs in. I think therear will need either a 2" or 4" lift spring.
I did also get the transfer case hung on new poly bushings. It's in there nice and snug. :) Darkness forced me to stop for the day. I'll snap a couple photos tomorrow. Posted via Mobile Device |
Re: 66 4x4 my sons new project
What no update pic LOL
I know the correct tow hooks are pricey but I like the look of them over just a J hook. |
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