Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

So as crazy as some of this stuff may seem the one part that still gives me pause is the ECU. After reading and reading and reading, then calling and finding out I've totally misunderstood what I was reading, now I'm looking at an ECU that seems to actually do what the docs seem to indicate it does. I was planning on using the AEM Series II, then the AEM Infinity 6h, then maybe the full featured Infinity 8, but they are closed up and I can't do what I want with any of them, Holley Dominator and FAST xfi 2.0 were the same. So I started looking at some higher end stuff, the problem is the price tag, it's a holy crap moment. :eek:

So I'm now considering going with a MoTeC M600, it's a whole other thing. Open definable message logging and message output over CAN, you can add expanders to increase I/O, is very oriented towards the type of induction limitations I have (no MAP or MAF or stable vacuum source) and can do most of it's air/fuel adjustment based on closed loop Lambda monitoring of the exhaust. I can't even bring myself to say what this magic box costs in a public forum, but lets just say if you bought 2 of the top of the line boxes from Holley or AEM or FAST it would cost you less than an M600 and if you wanted the M800 (the 8 cyl box) you could buy all 3.

The MoTeC is a pretty special animal though, not that it does it out of the box, but it can be made to do some stuff that really makes you re-evaluate what you thought you knew about ECUs. They have hooks for GPS mapping and can adjust your engine management to change as you go around a track, they have add ons to manage power so you can essentially eliminate your fuse block and regulate, limit and manage power via software, they have out of vehicle remote monitoring that allows a crew to tweek your vehicle as you are driving it, way out there stuff, really expensive stuff.

There also seems to be no deals on the MoTeC, pretty much the same cost no matter where you go. The unterminated harness cost is just silly, so I'll have to build my own from scratch, which is OK. Even though you can define the CAN message format, what the gauges I was going to use understand is apparently *not* standard CAN but some variation of CAN used by OEM ECUs that is typically sent over ODBII, not really CAN. This means I'll probably need double senders for almost everything I have a gauge for, what a PITA.

Also a hindsight moment, apparently if I had ordered my Moser axles with the lobes for antilock brakes, with the sensors the MoTeC can use those for launch control, may re-address that sometime down the road, we'll see.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Have you considered LED bars from companies such a Rigid Industries and Vision X. You could fill the factory grille slats without needing to slice and dice it.

Also, at least one company is making LED headlights in the 5.75" size needed for your quad headlights. ORACLE headlights function as both hi/low beam...

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Well no I haven't and really wouldn't.

First off it'll be a tech vehicle under the covers, but there is a certain somewhat crude vintage racing look I'm going for, big LED arrays don't fit that look at all. I'm even trying to figure out how to disguise the LEDs I would like to use like marker lights and such, I'd like the reliability but don't want the array look.

Second those Marchals will throw a focused beam over a mile and a half, no current LED can do that at least not for a few more years. Even some of the huge LED arrays that are dimensionally bigger, are super expensive, and draw even more power can't do that.

I kind of like the horizonalless grill, it has a sort of Pontiac look to it which I think goes with the Trans Am extractors I'm putting in the fenders and Grand Prix door handles, and you know the GMCs were sold on the same lot alongside Pontiacs most of the time.

Very well funded World Rally Championship teams and Paris-Dakar teams are still using these long out of production Marchals and Cibie Super Oscars in preference to any LED or HID technologies. The same is true in the 24 hour races the vast majority of forward lighting is halogen, while LEDs are starting to creap in, I don't think any of the cars are using LEDs exclusively. HIDs have pretty much come and gone already, virtually absent from high dollar night racing.

I do think the LED stuff will eventually take over, but it's just not there yet and I don't think it'll ever look vintagey well not until it actually is.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Now I understand that it's the vintage look you're going for, I understand why the LED lights wouldn't work...

Have you picked up the oil pan yet? I am really interested in the Vortec 4200 motor now as I was thinking about using it for a future project. I understand the factory 07+ ECM will control the motor and 4L60e as well as simple a simple turbo set up... Where did you get your motor and what was your cost?

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

The other issue is that the high output LED stuff is still in it's infancy, most if not all automotive LED lighting is constructed from off the shelf components no intentionally designed as automotive lighting which makes the current products essentially arrays of tactical flashlights. If you happen to have one of these tactiacl lights like a Fenix or similar, at full output they are glare monsters, shine one on a printed page full on and it's practically illegable, for me anyway, I have to crank it down and it all comes into focus, but at that output it's not all that impressive as far as light output. Unfortuanatly at this point most of the LED stuff is doing it the easy way and there isn't really the focused development on making pre-patterned automotive arrays yet with a tight pattern and ditch the reflector since LEDs don't ned them, it's just to make it look like something familiar. Their day will come and when it does everything else will be an antique.

Sorry for the rant...

Anyway, yes, I am in posession of the Lavazza Fiat 500 pan now, looks like it will work out well, and is really a very very nice piece. My one complaint is that the bottom plate did not come with a gasket and suggests it be attached with silicone sealant (as near as I can figure the instructions are in Italian). I think I'll be making a gasket for it. I've been trying to get some time to go do the tour, Machinist has my 4200 pan and it's been sliced but he needs my input on what to cut out internally around where the front drive shaft re-enforcing ribs were. There is quite a bit of random structure there. He's also going to be doing the new bottom and flange for the Fiat pan to bolt on to (with a relocated dip stick hole), and my fabricator will be welding it together. Then the Fiat pan just becomes a removable sump on the bottom of the 4200 pan.

My engine came from a yard in Louisville, Ky out of a totaled 2008 Trailblazer with 10K miles on it. Apparently it was lost in the inventory and sat on a shelf for 5 years, forgotten. Anything that wan't the motor however was hacked, they basically sawzalled it out of the truck, cutting through the harness and several of the sensors, oh and one of the motor mount purches.

The 2008 and 2009 engines (and maybe '07) use the 58X crank triggers like the LS motors and can use the, and I hope I get the number right here, E67 PCM which is also capable of controlling a 6L80/90 trans, which is damn interesting. They are capable of being tweeked for turbos, google "limeswap" he's a guy doing turbo reprograms specifically for the 4200s. I believe he has even done a variable vane turbo setup. Doesn't help me though, OEM PCMs require MAP which requires some sort of stable vacuum source which with me going with ITBs I won't have. Basically factory ECUs need a common plenum, common throttle body, and drive by wire to work, I will have none of the 3.

My engine cost me $1200 and another $400 for freight to a dock. Original pan was cracked in a couple of places where the front axle got tweeked in it from the accident it was in, it was covered in either lime stone or gypsum dust, and the above mentioned demolition style removal method but other than that it was in really really nice condition. In SoCal it would have cost me triple that, so I view it as a steal. There are early (2005) complete crate engines floating around, though they are probably getting more scarce and have the composite valve cover vs the cast aluminum one. Oh and the heads are different between the plastic and aluminum cover versions and covers do not interchange, also early motors have much smaller exhaust ports.

Be warned the 2006-2009 engines are mechanically similar but the harnesses have different connectors, GM was concerned that they may lose Delphi as a source at the time and changed over all the connectors to some Bosch, Metri-pack and Weather-Pack randomness with some Delphi leftovers in the later years. So if you plan on using an OEM PCM get an engine with all the electronics still intact or know the specific year. Stupid things like AC compressors, alternators and sensors are interchangable mechanically but have different connectors. Oh and know that AC compressors and alternators are specific to 4200s (or actually Atlas motors) and bolt directly to the block.

These engines are (within a few mm either way) very similar bore and stroke wise to the 4.2 litre Jaguar XKE engines and where as the XKE engines take quite a bit of tuning and mods to get to 300hp, that is about where the 4200s start out. I really am hoping that by sort of treating it similarly (tri-Y headers, and individualised intake) I can get the sort of sound that a high hp Jag motor can have, almost like an angry V12 with a pop-pop-pop when you let off on the throttle and defenatly a sound that sounds like it's from another era. Like this Jag:

300 bhp Jaguar E-type 4.2 Litre built by Lex Classics

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Thanks<
I found Limeswap on one of the other forums and a few other sources for info. I also found a cast rear sump pan that looks sub par in quality based on some pics. I just found another pan that has a billet flange and the rest fabricated... If any of my plan comes together(getting the car I have my eye on), it will have a NA 4200; then maybe upgraded to FI later...

So now lets see some progress pics... even if it's just some cool new parts...

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

quote=mcmlxix;6674394]Thanks<
I found Limeswap on one of the other forums and a few other sources for info. I also found a cast rear sump pan that looks sub par in quality based on some pics. I just found another pan that has a billet flange and the rest fabricated... If any of my plan comes together(getting the car I have my eye on), it will have a NA 4200; then maybe upgraded to FI later...

So now lets see some progress pics... even if it's just some cool new parts...[/quote]

hmmm, you are likely talking about the pans on the Vortec4200 forum, there is 3, all vaporware. The cast pan, the guy who did that one had to find another foundry after he made the first one (he may have made a few, but I've talked to most of the guys in that forum and no one has ever seen one in person), I was supposed to get the first one from the new foundry, after a few months of back and forth, they apparently blew out his mold.

The Billet flange pan with the fabricated bottom, that guy had to sell all his machinery, so that pan is gone. Also that pan did not have the bosses for the lower bolts for the AC compressor if that matters to you.

The "bolt on" rear sump pan is a one off, never made again.

There is also a mid sump pan made by a guy in Ohio for swaping a 4200 in to vintage Rolls Royces, it exists but is super expensive and really buys you nothing for a 67-72 swap.

Believe me if there was an off the shelf pan, I never would have gone down the Fiat pan path. However, the Fiat pan path can be done on many levels there is probably 8-10 different aftermarket pans for that old Fiat 2 cylinder with varying capacities. You only need the top 2 inches of the original pan, plus the transmission dirt skirt. You do however need to be able to get to the inspection hole in the skirt to put the torque converter bolts on, so the removable Fiat sump solves that problem. I've been told that if you had to, you could bolt up the torque converter through the starter hole.

Here is a pic of the Fiat 500 pan gasket laid over my broken pan to give you an idea of scale:
Attachment 1254152
..and this is the Lavazza pan laid over that gasket in the position it would be, remember that the entire bottom of the pan will be milled off and replaced with a new bottom:
Attachment 1254153

So, when you say NA and FI later, are you talking carbs? That maybe more difficult than you think. There are no aftermarket intakes for the 4200, only the factory composite (plastic) one. Also the injectors are in the head not the intake so if you plug those for carbs you may make doing fuel injection difficult later. After I posted my respose late last night I was on the phone with Jenvey in England (4am LA time) discussing my fuel injection plans, they suggested I would get better performance by moving the injectors out away from the head and into the throttle bodies. I guess I always assumed squirting directly into the port was the optimal position, Jenvey was telling me that that is done for emmisions and cold starting and that fuel injection atomises better and is more responsive if you inject at the furthest point in the individual runner not the nearest, and these guys are kind of the guys in that market so I tend to give a lot of credit to what they say.

Anyway this new info may make me reconsider the plan, since the OEM fuel rail and especially the injector plugs are really in the way for a good clean manifold design and if moving all that out to the throttle bodies gets them out of the way and actually improves performance, well that maybe the solution. Since the throttle bodies already have all the spots for the fuel rail and injectors in them already, the same style injectors, it's just a fuel rail and Jenvey will make one to order with whatever spacing I need for about $100.

So back to the subject of carbs, I will be doing my manifold (and chose the injectors I did) so that if I ever wanted to I *could* run DCOE weber carbs instead of Fuel Injection, not that I see that happening, but the option would be there if I ever decided to go all non-electronic.

Here is the throttle bodies from Jenvey, they sent me 2 rights and a left for a 4 cylinder, instead of a left a right and a center for a 6, so this is why the interlink linkages don't seem to work all the way through. They are sending me the parts to fix that as well as a left and right hall TPS and a batch of injector plugs I can use to cap either the injector bosses in the head or the throttle bodies:
Attachment 1254154
Also new are the flanges for the stacks to mount an air filter which I've ordered from ITG, also in England:
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/f..._jc100_25a.jpg
I'm getting a taller one than that, not that you can really tell how tall it is from the pic. Oh and mine is being made with the logo upside down so the screw flanges are hidden on the bottom.

A lot of stuff is ordered and in transit, my paddle shifter is at the anodizers apparently, and the steering wheel, I dunno maybe being stitched up by Luigi in Italy. My short tail shaft for the 4L80E (so that the 4l80 is size interchangable with a 4l60 should that ever be a thing I need to do) is on order along with the trans controller, apparently waiting on the shaft itself from the mill. I did recieve what I'll be using for the floor P-N-R-D-L Floor selector, a B&M Quicksilver, nice piece and probably overkill for just selecting drive, but I want things to feel solid in the truck, and it certainly does. I'm probably only going to use the mechanism so the knob, floor housing and cover (which are the cheesy parts) won't be used.

Oh and I got the last pieces to make my '69 Grand Prix door handles work, this one you have to use your imagination on a little:
Attachment 1254164
The cutouts get welded into the doors and the stamped pieces are the backing plates. The handles are recessed so you basically push the ribbed part to pop the handle out. Cool old Pontiac parts.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Sorry....
NA = Naturally Aspirated (stock)
FI - Forced Induction (turbo)

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

I just figured FI was fuel injection, so I was thinking NA must be... :hm:

These engines do boost well, real well, 500hp on stock internals with an OEM PCM is doable, and 700hp on a built engine has been done... It's tempting believe me. I just always loved the look of a Weber carbed straight 6, especially one with a cross flow head. This all started because I was origionally thinking about doing a Northstar and came across one some guy adapted Hayabusa throttle bodies to, sounded wicked. The Nothstar was really to expensive and complicated (the best of the Northstars were made for front wheel drive cars and took a lot to make them work in a north-south orientation), so then I came across the 4200, but that ITB seed was already stuck.

I know this sounds crazy, but I really wanted the engine in my project to sound right... um, but wrong, if you know what I mean. I am kinda bored with the sound of loppy pushrod 8s and if I'd done one it would have been some giant aluminum Merlin block whose displacement was measured in gallons that I couldn't afford to feed. :lol:

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

If it sounds like that Jag, it will be awesome... very vintage racer ...

I'm working on picking up a 1962 Rambler American that came with an I6... no room for a V8 without major surgery... so the LL8 will be perfect...

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Really? the Atlas is huge, length wise and top to bottom I think it's bigger than a big block. It maybe narrower, but it's really big everywhere else. Even in a 67-72 I don't think you could run a clutch fan on the front of it and have it clear a radiator in the stock location. I don't know how Limequat on the 4200 board ever squeezed one into a Supra.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Is this some sort of prop from the original star wars movie?

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Those Pontiac handles are pimp!
My best friend has a 71 GP and always loved the door handles. Oh and the aircraft carrier sized hood!!

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Yes, It's the machine they use to make the Wookie noises with.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Yes the 60's and early 70s concept of the Personal Luxury car. Giant hood, check, poor visability, check, kooky obscure details, check. I had a '66 Olds Toronado, I've had 2 actually, I loved the look of that car, absolutely massive hood and massive wheel arches, it's kooky bits were a speedometer that rolled and the needle was stationary, and the vacuum operated auto seek radio, the "Wonderbar". I swear that car had more vacuum lines than wires.

I haven't decided yet whether I'm going to leave them chrome or take them apart and powder coat them body color or maybe semi-gloss black.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

+1 for the semi gloss. Don't remember are you going w flat black paint?

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

No, the whole truck is going to be powdercoated silver and will get color matched wet paint some time in the future. Silver is pretty close match to GM Switchblade Silver, AKA, Silver Ice Metallic, it's basically the Silver of the new Camaros. The powdercoat color I'm going to use is Tiger Bengal Silver. The goal is to sort of color match it to the cargo which is 2 1972 Honda XL250s.

The bikes have black and like a dark mauve accent stiping on them that I plan on kind of mocking in the truck paint. So like a wide black stripe from roll pan to roll pan with the mauve as a heavy pinstripe accent. There is pictures of the bikes earlier in the thread.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

What I was up to while watching the 24 hours of le Mans, dimpled died my floor ends and rear roll pan, and bead died my rockers:
Attachment 1270197
The rockers are bead died and are punched to fit plastic plugs, I have 3 types , not sure which ones I'll use yet, 1 is a simple black plastic plug, I also have clear polycarbonite ones and black louvered ones.
Attachment 1270200
The dimple dies here (and along with the rockers) will allow these areas to get powder coated on the inside, as well as offer airflow to dry these areas out. I also figure it gives me a stealthy way of running wiring to the rear of the body.
Attachment 1270198
Here the punches allow the trapped air to get out from under the body, and let's face it it's just cool looking. They'll peek out from under the sectioned and widened '69 Camaro bumper.

As far as the front, that ended up not going according to plan, the front pan makes it pretty obvious the difference in pointiness between the 67-72 front end and the later 454SS airdam I was planning on using, worked behind a stock bumper, but under a pan, not so much, so scrap that idea. So now I think I'm going to go with a first gen Camaro style chin spoiler instead of the airdam. Spoilers by Randy offers a frame mount one for our trucks, and really it will probably do the job better, the job being to get that low air and direct it into the radiator as well as keeping the air from under the truck. Here is my re-rendering with the chin spoiler and the fog light moved up under the bumper:
Attachment 1270204
...and if you're paying attention I also moved the dimple died holes in the render from the bottom edge of pan to the top.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

I also got the seat brackets and paddle shifter in, the brackets line up in the front holes but not the back, so I guess I'll need to drill the floor for the back holes. The steep angle of the brackets makes for a ton of leg room, almost too much. They go way back to the point where I will barely be able to touch the pedals, and I've never had enough leg room in anything. When forward it raises the front edge of the seat up maintaining a lot of leg room even forward and my Recaros have adjustable thigh supports on top of that. I guess no one short will ever drive this truck.
Attachment 1270208
Attachment 1270209

...and here is the paddle shifter, really nice piece:
Attachment 1270207

My steering wheel is still lost in Italy somewhere, but as soon as that comes in I can measure for the column length.
Attachment 1270210

It's all a puzzle, the seats and brackets change how far you are from the dash, the paddle shifter changes the overall length of the column, and the steering wheel has a different dish from stock, so in order to know what the length of the column needs to be you need all the other pieces.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

I also got the windshield top frame patch kit in from GMC Pauls, nice kit, the top piece fit great lays right over the original top piece, and I believe it's pre-drilled for a soft top (which I don't need). The kit effectively replaces the entire top of the windshield frame, the one issue though is that while it does solve this issue:
Attachment 1270213
Attachment 1270214

It stops short of dealing with this issue:
Attachment 1270211
Attachment 1270212

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Oh, and my custom airfilter from the UK came in as well:
Attachment 1270217
Attachment 1270218

Now how cool is that?
Attachment 1270219

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Pretty damn cool!

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Liking this pretty good, but I just can't get myself to dig all those tail lights

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

I'm thinking those taillights will turn out better than you think, and if it turns out worse than I think, it's a real easy undo, Just change the tailgate.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

NICE BUILD.....:gmc2:

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

I kinda agree w spray bomb But I'm sure you will make it tasteful like the rest of your selections! You sure do have some Gucci parts on this thing!

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Yea,
er....... are, uh, are you from France or sumthin?

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

There is nothing gold, fringed, patterned or patent leather and I'm hoping it doesn't come off looking like a rappers shoe, so I guess I'm not sure I get the Gucci thing. Then again if I was a goomba from Jersey that would probably be a huge compliment so um, thanks... I guess.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

France? no I'm originally from the Midwest, and I'm Scottish and Norweigen and I do own both a kilt and one of those helmets with the horns on it but only wear the two together if I'm eating Haggis and Lutefisk in the same meal.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Yes it was a compliment and way to build it the way that you want!

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Then thank you, because a rappers shoe with family truckster taillights isn't what I'm going for :lol:

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

considering putting a atlas engine in a square body pickup as i heared some good stories about the relyable power they make when fitted with a turbo, i keep my eye on this one

cool idea about the fiat oilpan
so you now need to machine the whole bottom part of the pan till theres only 2 inches left up from the gasket seal part and leave the dustplate for the clutch then make and weld a flat piece of alu plate over the hole
do you still need to put the stiffener ribs to the dustplate back again ? they look kindah in the way of the new oilpan
is the casting thick enough to just make a bunch of treaded holes around the circumference make a gasket and bolt the flat part onto the original cast part

thinking about all the machining needed
it might be simpler to have that 2 inch pan part cut out of a 2 inch sumtin thick piece of aluminium billet complete with the bottom the holes for the fiat pan and a seperate dustplate for the clutch bolted to the back of it and call it done
might even be able to leave material in the cavity as a studgirdle inside the pan for the mainbearings with the mountingbolts going trough and through.... if it wasnt for the brackets for the accessories on the side you mentioned the cad file shouldnt be THAT hard to make

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

The pan has already been sliced:

Attachment 1279455
Attachment 1279456

The cut is nice and flat. I'm going to go pick it up next week, at this point I'm planning on just CADing up the plate in Solidworks which I decided to teach myself to use last week. If I CAD up the contours for the new bottom I can replicate the ribs of the Fiat pan which I think will be pretty cool, not that anyone will ever see it but I'll know. Oh and the dirt skirt ribs are gone.

The pan rim is about 3/16 give or take and I plan on doing the new bottom, probably our of 3/8ths with the ribs taking up about half the thickness. I plan to leave some extra girth where the Fiat pan mounts. A bolt on bottom probably wouldn't work too well, I don't think there is enough sealing area given the placement of the rail bolts which would probably bow out the pan bottom, You'd have to completly goop the thing up with sealant. To really make a wise joint like that you need close tolorances, not a lot of flex and something like Hondabond which is specifically make for mating machined surfaces without physical gaskets.

I thought about doing a full milled pan, but we're talking a really hunky chunk of aluminum even if you are just doing the top pan section without the sump, you're talking maybe about a grand just for the block of 6061 aluminum.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

So I've been working out the design for the intake manifold in Solidworks. The original plan was to cast it from a 3d print, however the casting house wanted to get their model maker involved so it went from very reasonable to really expensive really quickly. After looking at it I really need to keep it really short anyway, so I'm looking at milling it. I only have access to a 2 axis mill so my first design, which I really like BTW:
Attachment 1279457
Needed to be radically simplified:
Attachment 1279458
And may need to be simplified even further by the time I'm done. I also need to slice up the basic layout from a block of wood first just to get the angles right. Clearance on the number 1 cylinder is obstructed in all sorts of ways, and has to exit just right to clear everything.

I've decided to move things along I'm probably going to use actual Weber DCOEs at first instead of the DCOE pattern throttle bodies. The whole fuel systems becomes simpler, and I can do all the electronics later. No pressure regulation, no loop back tank, no 02 sensors it's all old school with a new school block. To start then I'll just need a crank triggered wasted spark ignition since there is no distributor on the Atlas engine. I will probably need to run premium in it, where the electronic version could get away with regular. Anyway this was one of the advantages of using the DCOE patterend throttle bodies, it gave me options.

Oh and after months of waiting my headers finally arrived, sorry for the poor angle on the shot:
Attachment 1279459

Also Frame is coming along, here it is on the fab table being mocked up:
Attachment 1279460

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

You have some serious skills sir.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

If you are refering to Solidworks skills, thanks, if you are refering to my fab skills, I wish I could take credit, but I can't. The frame is being put together by T J Dalrymple at his shop space in Burbank, CA and the pan slicing was done by Findlay's Machine shop in Santa Monica, CA. I don't have the shop space to do it myself, I wish I did, I'd be a lot further along.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

a while back i seen someone using trottlebodies from a motorcycle for his car
there cheaper to buy if you can find them used and another good thing is they usually have the linkages that can be adapted to work on a inline engine
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e5...g/d0b21d29.jpg
according to the website you need to find those for a Suzuki GSXR 750, 1000, and 1300 (Hayabusa) ITB's up to '02 are the best for altering the spacing
the newer ones are paired together

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Interestingly the roots of the project hover around 'busa throttle bodies, well sort of. I knew from the beginning I wanted a modern engine design in an old truck, specifically a '75 or older truck, the year California considers too old to care about if it's older and I'll never need a C.A.R.B certificate for anything I do and I'll never need to smog it. Essentially it's off the grid and I can rewind the clock to good old fashioned hot rodding and take advantage of all the modern advances.

At first I was looking at maybe a Northstar engine, and seeing a youtube video of one with 'busa ITBs really got me, it sounded rude and knarley, and snapped to rpms almost instantly. This is a link to that vid:

http://youtu.be/nhoAR3UfLRo

Then I started looking into what it would take to actually use a Northstar, not so easy. The best examples of the engine were used in front wheel drive cars, and required lots and lots of mods to put things in the right place to turn it 90 degees and run it to a rear wheel drive setup. All very ugly and all very expensive, and in the end the engine doesn't really have a very good reputation, lots of oil burning issues, failed head gaskets and almost any of many common failures renders it non-rebuildable. ...and it still runs a cross crank, so it still sounds like a typical American V8. I considered it to the point of thinking about getting a flat crank made for one. Eventually it became obvious this was too far out there. It's also wider than a big block.

The ITB thing stuck, that was going to be whatever the engine choice. I make my living as a disaster recovery engineer, so even though I was set on ITBs I always wanted to give myself the out of running carbs.

I have a last year 2003 GMC Sonoma with the 4.3l V6 and the ZQ8 handling package and a limited slip, great little truck but of course it seems to throw a check engine light within days of it's smog check every single time one is due. Anyway, when I bought it as an end of year model the new Canyons were already shipping with the 5 cyl version of the Atlas. Being an inquisitive guy I asked about it at the time and was told that it was a great engine that made more power than the V6 and there was a 6 cyl version that was a beast in the Envoy. It got filed away and what made that bit of archive data pop out again years later is hard to say.

I really wanted an overhead cam, 4 valve per cylinder engine in this project, preferably from the company that made the body. I was always fascinated with the Offenhouser and Cosworth engines in my youth, I also love the sound of an engine that fires in even pulses.

I am well aware the LS motors do the job quite well but I don't find them interesting or exciting, to me they are a rehash of a 60 year old design. The ZR1 engine is really interesting, but carries a crazy price tag and nothing about it is common with anything else. Ford makes some interesting modern V8s with their modulars, even a V10 version, but that just seems wrong to drop one into a GM truck. Europeon and Asian engines, even wronger.

When I started looking into the Atlas it seemed to meet all the requirements, modern 4 valve DOHC engine with a bore and stroke really similar to an old Jag E-Type 6. Very respectable HP (near 300 stock from 4.2 liters on regular gas), relatively small displacement (gas is $450/gal in California, highest in the US and seems to go up if an Arab sneezes), adaptable, has a great reliablity record despite a lot of urban myths that it doesn't (usually propagated by guys who try and tell you why a small block Chevy is the only engine practical to swap into ANY project), oh and lets not forget cheap, my engine with less than 10,000 miles on it cost me less than $1500 shipped from 2500 miles away. It has all the same type sensors as an LS engine, same 58X trigger, same coil interface.

What's usually easy is harder than it should be with this engine: oil pan is all wrong for most everything and it's cast with important stuff in the casting like AC compressor mounts and the cover for the bellhousing. It would seem like the idea of a simple wasted spark ignition triggered off of a common trigger wheel configuration would be something simple, but without commiting to fuel injection and an ECU, mmm not so much. As a matter of fact if you specifically want just a crank fired stand alone ignition for something other than an LS engine you have a choice of one, ElectroMotive. There is no aftermarket intake manifolds of any sort for this engine and the stock one looks like a plastic toy. The bellhousing pattern is unique to the Atlas Engines so anything other than a 4L60/65/70E trans is tricky.

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

think you can get that msd computer they make for carburated ls1 engines to work too
think the best pricewize would be the megasquirt for both the engine injection and ignition

i been looking in the northstar swap a long while back , there was this company that made a bunch of stuff for them including adapterplates to fit inline transmissions
they seemed to be more intoo the sandrail stuff though

Re: Project Madera: A Jimmy GT
 

Just spent a 1/2 hour going through the whole thread.

Subscribed and Intrigued :ito: