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Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
That is a good score.
Rob |
Tailgate and Headlight Moderization
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Now that spring has finally arrived in Central Illinois, it's time to get back out to the garage. The good news is, I have plenty of fun projects to work on. The bad news is, not all of those projects are on my '65 C10.
As I posted recently, a few weeks ago, my son picked up a C10 of his own (a '77 Silverado). We've spent most of our garage time getting it back on the road. There's still quite a bit of work to do, but it's getting closer to roadworthy. While my son was working this weekend, I took a break from his truck to spend some quality time with my own. I checked a couple of modernization/practicality upgrades off my list. Tailgate Chain Delete I like the "old truck aesthetic" of the tailgate chains, but I open and close the tailgate enough to make the chains a pain in the rear. And, the chains don't support the tailgate level with the bed. They sag and the tailgate hangs at an odd downward angle. So, over the winter, I went in search of a tailgate cable and latch conversion. I wasn't really excited by the ones available on the market. They're expensive and overly complicated. So, I set out to build my own. I started with a set of tailgate cables for a '07-'16 Silverado. They're cheap and readily available. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CGRDN4DP...lig_dp_it&th=1 Next, I found a set of stainless steel spring-loaded latches. Again, cheap and readily available. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B41XJ77B...lig_dp_it&th=1 The rest was simple fabrication work.
LED Headlights Last summer, I installed a set of high intensity headlight bulbs. They were better than the original T3's, but they were still a far cry from the LED headlights we're used to on our daily drivers. I didn't feel safe driving the '65 at night with all of the modern vehicles (and their glaring headlights) on the road. So, I stepped up and bought a pair of Holley RetroBright headlights. They're pricey, but if you plan to drive your classic truck at night, they are totally worth it. Safety is a good place focus your project budget. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Holle...SAAEgJCL_D_BwE The installation was fairly simple. Just pull out the old bulbs and pop in the new ones. The pigtails on the RetroBrights plug right into the factory headlight harness, or in my case, the upgraded headlight harness I installed last summer. I had to correct the headlight aim a bit, but that's to be expected whenever you remove and replace the bulbs. I'll also note how good the RetroBright's look. Most LED bulbs look much too modern for a classic vehicle. Holley did a very good job making the RetroBright lenses look like vintage bulbs. They look right at home on a '60's pickup. You can see a comparison shot below between the RetroBright (driver side) and the high-intensity incandescent (passenger side). The RetroBright is a lot "whiter" than vintage, but the lens pattern mimics the old T3's much better. When they're turned off, you have to look closely for the "Holley" logo to know they're not vintage bulbs. Last night, after sundown, I went for a drive to try out the new lighting. The results are impressive. The RetroBrights are significantly brighter than the old high-intensity bulbs and they do a much better job of throwing light sideways toward the ditches. This is a huge safety advantage, especially when the critters are twitterpated and frolicking near the roadways. The low beams don't seem quite as bright as those on my '21 GMC, but the high beams throw light WAY out ahead of the truck. This upgrade makes a huge improvement in terms of safety and practicality. |
Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
Nicely done x2.
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John |
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Help them all you can while you can is my core belief. |
Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
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John |
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Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
Nice progress on your truck. The problem with your son's gearbox is annoying,
I'm also keeping my fingers crossed that you find a good solution. |
Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
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John |
Making up for Lost Time
Sorry fellas, no pictures this time. Just a good story about a kid and his old pickup.
When last we met, my son and I were doing battle with the 700r4 in his '77 square body. That was in April and he had dreams of driving his project truck off to college in the fall. I won't keep you in suspense. He and the square body made it to college (four hours from home) safe and sound. And now, as Paul Harvey would say, the rest of the story. Transmission Shift Points Back in April, we thought the transmission was skipping 2nd gear and shifting WAY too hard for a stock 700r4. It turns out that the transmission was actually fine, it was just extremely misadjusted. Whoever did the drivetrain swap missed a step. The TV cable was installed and it was even adjusted more-or-less properly. But, they forgot to add the geometry correction tab to the carburetor throttle arm. So, even with the cable properly adjusted, the 700r4 was hanging in 1st gear until 35mph. We thought is was skipping 2nd gear because it never hit overdrive until you were going 75-80mph (allegedly). With the throttle arm geometry corrected, the 700r4 shifts now shifts smoothly at the proper points. With the transmission problem solved, we moved on to the rest of the pre-college punch list. New Tilt Steering Column The original '77 steering column was non-tilt. And, more importantly, someone wrecked the column attempting to steal the truck. The ignition lock cylinder was loose and only worked if you knew the secret handshake. The column housing was too mangled to repair. Plus, the turn signal switch was destroyed and the colar that actuates the PRNDL indicator was broken. The column had lots of problems. On top of all that, the truck had an ugly aftermarket steering wheel that looked completely out of place in a '70's pickup. So, we sourced a good used tilt column and a factory steering wheel from Doug's 4-Wheelers in Iowa. Doug's is only a few hours away from us, so we made a day of it. We walked their yard (hundreds of old trucks) and picked up several salvaged parts that were missing from the '77. Once we were home, we ripped out the old busted steering column and installed the replacement column and wheel. The whole job only took about four hours and it all looks 100% original. My son greatly appreciates working turn signals, tilt steering, and a proper square body steering wheel. New Floor Pans When we bought the '77 the cab floors were shot. In fact, the previous owner had already bought replacement pans from AMD and included them with the sale. We chopped the rot out of the footwells and welded in the replacement panels. In the end, we replaced about 70% of the driver footwell and about 80% of the passenger footwell. Luckily, the raised seat pedestal was solid. We treated the remaining surface rust with rust converter, seam sealed all the welds, and coated everything with rust encapsulator paint. New heater core, fan, and speed control resistor The previous owner of the truck bypassed the heater core because it was leaking (and contributing to the rotten footwells). This was another problem he obviously knew about because he included a replacement heater core with the truck. Since we had the interior apart anyway, it was a perfect time to replace the heater core. The core replacement is a pain in the butt, but it is doable. Once it was all back together, it became obvious we had a problem with the heater fan. Actually, we had two problems. First, the fan ran at a very low speed all the time. It would speed up with the fan speed control, but it would not shut off. Second, the fan rattled and squealed. The bearings where kaput. A replacement fan fixed problem number 2, but the fan was still running at a slow speed, even when the HVAC was completely shut off. A replacement speed control resistor solved that problem. My son is all set (or so we hope) for colder temperatures this fall and winter. New Seats and Carpeting With the floors patched and the heater box all back together, it was time to gussy up the interior. We laid down a fresh layer of jute padding, followed by a some generic automotive carpeting we ordered from Amazon. By luck, it is a dead match for the original dark green factory carpet. Lastly, we installed a pair of Procar lowback bucket seats. They're the same ones I have installed in my '65. They are a little bit old-school for a '77, but they're comfortable and my son likes the musclecar style. Transmission Leaks (and lots of them!) The very day we parked the truck to start digging into the rotten floor pans, the transmission decided to hemorrhage fluid all over the garage floor. It appeared that fluid was leaking from everywhere. Frankly, I was afraid we might have somehow cracked the transmission housing itself. I've resealed transmission pans before, but this was way beyond me. And, we were running out of time. This was just two weeks before my son was scheduled to report for his 1st day of college. I reached out to a local transmission shop and the shop owner assured me he would get the leaking under control for us. So, we topped off the transmission (it was over 4 quarts low) and we headed for the shop. A couple of days later, the shop owner called to let me know the transmission was fine. It was indeed leaking from multiple locations, but it just needed some new seals. Best of all, he was able to do all the work with the transmission still in the truck. Believe it or not, the job cost us less than $100. Thank goodness there are still honest mechanics out there. The hard part is finding them. Tonneau Cover and Tailgate Locks If the truck was going to sit on a college campus for days/weeks/months on end, we wanted the bed to somewhat secured. We ordered a folding tonneau cover that can only be opened from inside the bed. Of course, the vinyl cover will only keep the honest people honest, but at least it keeps the bed contents out of plain sight. The real challenge with an older truck is locking the tailgate. As far as I can tell, nobody makes a tailgate lock for a square body. We could have done something truely hideous like a pair of hasps and padlocks, but we wanted something a little bit less obtrusive. So, we installed a pair of cam locks (the same kind used for RV storage compartments), one on either side, near the top of the tailgate. We cut small slots in the rearmost stake pockets for the lock cams to engage into. The locks are unobtrusive enough that the untrained eye wouldn't even notice them. Again, these things don't provide Fort Knox level security, but they will keep the honest people honest. Off On a New Adventure Once we had the truck back in the garage, my son packed his bags (and his bicycle, refrigerator, and microwave) for the four hour drive to college. I led the way in my daily driver pickup and he (with his mother riding shotgun) followed behind in the '77. Is that a cool Mom, or what? We were all prepared to spend some family time on the roadside if the old truck experienced mechanical problems. By the grace of God, we arrived at school with no mechanical mishaps. So, our son and his squarebody are off on a grand new adventure. The truck gets to rest in a storage lot while my son is getting some edumacation. He's been on campus for about a week now and he says his '77 is the oldest vehicle he's seen so far. That's a pretty cool badge of honor. |
Power Steering and a Tilt Column for the '65
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Over the winter, my son and I found a good excuse to travel to the Speedway Motors headquarters in Lincoln, Nebraska. The retail side of the operation is just a walk up counter in the corner of the warehouse. No fancy storefront. But, the Speedway staff is impressively friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful. Beyond the giant warehouse full of go-fast parts, the big draw is the Speedway Motors Museum of American Speed. The museum is an absolute must-see. The shear scale, variety, and quality of the museum is overwhelming. If you're ever in the Lincoln area, it's definitely worth spending a few hours emersed in automotive history. While we were there, I took the opportunity to load up on parts for the '65 C10. My long term plan for the truck included power steering and an automatic transmission. So, I bought one of Speedway's power steering conversion kits and one of their tilt steering columns with provisions for an automatic transmission. Fast forward to August. After dropping our son and his square body pickup off at college, I suddenly have time to work on my own project truck. By coincidence, the bearings in my factory steering column began failing this spring. Throughout the summer, the steering has been getting rougher and rougher and the effort needed to turn the wheel has gotten heavier and heavier. The time was right to install the new Speedway parts.
The power steering installation went well. My only complaint is that Speedway's instructions where very lacking. Thankfully, I found a couple of YouTube videos of CPP kit installations, which are VERY similar. Here's the parts list I bought from Speedway Motors, including part numbers. I'll explain my decisions as I go through the installation.
Power Steering Pump The Speedway kit includes a '68-'72 style power steering pump, which looks right at home in a '65 engine bay. It comes with a very simple mounting bracket that seems to hold the pump well enough, but it doesn't do a great job of aligning the pulley with the crank shaft. The bracket is intended to align the PS pulley with the second (middle) groove on the crankshaft of a small block with a short water pump. The problem is that the bracket doesn't hold the pump perfectly square with the front of the engine block. It may be an optical illusion, but the pump appears to be twisted away from the center of the engine. Now that it's all installed, the belt seems to track OK, but the alignment isn't perfect. I will have to keep an eye out for signs of early belt wear. Steering Box The kit comes with a '73-'87 style power steering box. The kit includes a mounting bracket for the outside of the frame and a reinforcing plate for the inside of the frame. The brackets utilize a couple of the factory steering box mounting holes, but you have to drill two new mounting holes through the frame. Then, you have to drill out one of the threaded holes (lower front corner) on the steering box to remove the threads. This hole was the hardest part. Being cast, the steering box doesn't drill well. I ended up expanding the hole using a reamer. With all the holes drilled, you have to manhandle the box into place. It takes lots of hefting, fiddling, and adjusting to match up the holes. Once the box is mounted, the rest is pretty straight forward. Connect the pressure line between the pump and the steering box, flush the system with clean fluid, connect the return line from the steering box back to the pump, and burp all the air out of the system. Tilt Steering column Once the pump and steering box were mounted and plumbed, I turned my attention to the new steering column. I have the same complaint about installation instructions. The Speedway column is a good product, but there are literally no instructions. I learned how to install the new column by removing the factory column. Trial by fire. The key to success was researching the products (through the Speedway online catalog) ahead of time and making sure I bought the correct collapsible steering shaft and U-joints to connect the new box to the new shaft and the new shaft to the new steering column. The steering box has a 13'16" 36 spline input. The steering column is 1" DD output. In between, I used a collapsible shaft with 3/4" DD on the top end and 1" DD on the bottom end. The trick to making it all work is getting the correct conversion u-joint on each end. See the parts list above for part numbers. I purposely went with a 30" column (I think the factory column is 32"-33"). The shorter column puts the steering wheel a couple inches closer to the dash. This is more like the modern daily drivers we're used to. Adding the extra two inches and tilt makes a HUGE difference in cab space. It's much more comfortable now. With that said, the new column presented a couple of challenges. 1. The steering column is almost too short. More accurately, the Ididit collapsible shaft was almost too short. If either the steering column or the collapsible shaft were 1" longer, the installation would have been a bit more comfortable. As it was, there was no room for error. I had to remove the aluminum rivets from the collapsible shaft and extend it a fraction of any inch to mate up to the u-joints on either end. 2. The wiring for the column doesn't match up with mid-1960's dash wiring. The column is intended to be "universal". It comes with a GM 3 7/8" electrical connector. It will not match up with factory '65 8-pin dash connector. American Autowire makes an adapter harness that should make this a plug-n-play connection and it adds a hazard flasher circuit (Part Number: 35780). Unfortunately, I didn't know about this harness until after I started the column installation. So, instead, I did it the hard way, which really wasn't all that hard. I clipped the connectors off both the column wiring harness and the dash wiring harness, then matched the wire colors together. The only caveat is to know that the light green wire on the dash harness goes to the gray wire on the column harness. All the other colors match. I did not build a hazard flasher circuit, but that would be easy enough to add later. For the record, the hazard flasher circuit connects to the brown wire on the column harness. As I mentioned above, the column is equipped with a shifter for a future automatic transmission. I simply left the shift lever off the column and set it aside for the future automatic transmission swap. This wasn't intended as an installation write-up, but I hope some of this information will be helpful to others doing similar installations. I'm happy with the end result. The truck is MUCH easier to drive now, especially when tootling around town. The tilt column and additional couple inches of arm extension make the driving position more comfortable. The steering wheel isn't right in your face anymore. Apologies for the lousy pictures. Power steering isn't a very photogenic installation. |
Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
Congrats to your son on the new project. If you are still trying to figure out what the motor is the intake bolt pattern is the easy way to tell a vortec from non vortec. If the bolts are all straight up and down then its vortec, if the outer ones are angled but the center ones are straight up then its the mid 80s-early 90s TBI motor.
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Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
Thanks TacoZilla! We ran the numbers on his engine and transmission. The engine is a 350 from an '88 OBS and the transmission is from a '91 F-body (Camaro/Firebird). The engine has been "backdated" to carburation and HEI instead of computer controlled. It all seems pretty healthy. With fresh oil, the engine carries 40-45psi. After a bit of carb tuning, it starts and runs pretty well. We even got the electric choke working correctly.
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Unexpected Weekend Repairs
So, I've been preparing the truck for the Southern Illinois Truck Showdown this coming weekend in Marion, IL. If you're anywhere near Southern Illinois, you should absolutely come to the show. Last year, there were over 450 trucks in attendance. My goal was to have the power steering installed before the show. I finished that (or so I thought) last week, so I was prepared to spend the weekend cleaning the old pickup inside and out.
On Friday night, I popped off the hubcaps to clean up a bit of surface rust and give them a protective clear coat. Meanwhile, the head groundskeeper (my better half) asked me to go fetch some fuel for the mower. I jumped in the '65 and drove the three blocks to the gas station. As I pulled out of the station, the truck lean-popped and died. I was certain from the sound that it was a lean. The truck restarted and I drove back home. New Fuel Pump Needless to say, my plans for Friday night changed. The problem was actually pretty easy to diagnose. The fuel pressure gauge was sitting at 3psi. Adjusting the regulator down dropped the pressure, but adjusting up did nothing. So, with a quick trip to my favorite O'Reilly, I had a new fuel pump. With the new pump installed, fuel pressure came up just above 6psi. I regulated down to 5.5psi, readjusted the idle mixture, and called it done. More Steering Shenanigans On Saturday morning, I needed to run some errands. So, I put some miles on the '65 to make sure everything was running OK. It went well, until I was a few miles from home. I was driving through a small town on a state highway when suddenly, someone pulled out in front of me while I was cruising along at 35mph. After locking up the trusty old drum brakes, I thought to myself (and out loud), "WHAT A JERK!" Once my blood pressure settled, I figured out what happened. My right turn signal was stuck on and the other driver thought I was about to turn off the highway. They still shouldn't have pulled out in front of me, but the fault was at least partially mine. Obviously, there was a problem with the new steering column. Once safely back in the garage, I started my investigation. Looking back, it makes perfect sense. The steering column is fine, but I had the steering wheel in the wrong position to cancel the turn signals. The Speedway Motors column (and Flaming River and Ididit competitors) use the same basic turn signal mechanism and the GM '70's and '80's vehicles. The horn button contact ring has "cam" molded on the back side that automatically cancels the turn signals. If the cam is installed in the wrong position (too far one way or the other), the turn signals won't cancel. If you are familiar with this mechanism, this will make sense. The key is to install the ring with the horn contact wire at the 10:30 position. The problem was, my Grant steering wheel has a passthrough hole for the horn wire at the 2:00 position. Weird. Maybe it was designed for a Ford or a Dodge? I don't know. In any case, to correct the problem, I drilled new mounting holes in the steering wheel center and a new hole for the horn wire. With the steering wheel and the horn contact ring in the correct 10:30 position, the turn signals cancel correctly. Then, after all that, it took me four tries to get the steering column clocked correctly on the steering box to straighten the steering wheel horizontally. Back to Show Prep With the fuel pump replaced, the carb idle mixture readjusted, and the steering sorted out, I turn my attention back to primping the truck. It's an old truck with rattle can flat black paint. You can only primp so much. I finished cleaning and clear coating the hubcaps. I vacuumed the interior. And, I wiped the dust off the engine chrome bits. I'll give the truck one more washdown to remove the dead bugs before I head South on Friday. I hope to see some of you and your trucks at the show on Saturday. |
Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
Hope your upcoming adventure is trouble-free (& there's ample truck attendance)!
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Southern Illinois Truck Showdown 2024
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For the second year in a row, my son and I attended the Southern Illinois Truck Showdown in Marion, IL. Last year, we took my '65 C10. My son is now a college freshman, just down the road in Carbondale, IL. So, this year, he drove over in his '77 C10 and we took both trucks to the show.
The attendance numbers haven't been announced yet, but there were LOTS of cool old trucks on display. The forecast called for rain and thunderstorms all day. But, the weather held off until late afternoon, when the show was winding down. It was a good event. Lots of trucks and lots of friendly truck people. A good time was had by all. It was fun to visit with my son and spend the day immersed in the world of old trucks. We're already making plans to attend next year's show. |
Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
Nice! Good that the weather held out.
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Disc Brake and Power Brake Conversion - Part 1
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I finally "broke the seal" on the brake conversion project. I've been looking at this stack of parts for well over a year, just waiting for some time to put the truck up on blocks. All the parts came in the form of a front disc conversion kit and a power brake conversion kit from Speedway Motors. Most of the kits appear to be from CPP.
I'm only a couple hours in, but you can see my progress in the pictures. I have the driver side spindle knocked off and the spring removed. Ball joint removal comes next. This thing still has the original 1965 riveted upper ball joints. The driver side upper ball joint is plenty sloppy. Once the ball joints are out and the A-arms are cleaned up, I plan to install new lower A-arm shafts. At the same time, I plan to move the shafts 3/4" forward to add some additional caster. Full disclosure, I stole the idea for the suspension experts here on the forum. My goal is for the truck to track down the highway more like a modern vehicle. The front suspension will go back together with new spindles, rotors, calipers, and tie rods. Then, I'm replacing the original style single-reservoir manual master cylinder with a dual-reservoir power unit and new brake lines all around. While I'm in the brake department, I'll replace the rear wheel cylinders and brake shoes. My hope is to have the truck drivable again before I have to mothball it for the winter. I'll do my best to add updates as I make my way through the project. Wish me luck! |
Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
Good upgrade.
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Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
I will be curious to see how you handle your lower control arm bushings as to removal and replacement. I left mine on the truck to be able to hold them steady while removing the bushing. I don't think I have a big enough vice to hold them. Going back together, I may try the same things. Here is a video of my suspension break down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYa4kDEDDvw |
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Re: 1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread
Hey Scoti,
I was reading through another thread where you posted pictures of your OE and aftermarket replacement shafts. https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...487363&page=11 Your OE shafts had the alignment hole at 1.5". You drilled the new holes at 2". My OE shafts are at 1.75". I'm wondering if there is any point drilling new holes at 2". I'm almost there already. Thoughts? Thanks. John |
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