Re: Project: Recycle
 

Latest update....

I've been waiting for a steering column bracket & received it last night (upper column under dash bracket). I popped the old/used van-tilt column in place today & as expected it's too long. I needed that bracket to properly secure the column so I could get some accurate measurements & will now start researching my options. I’m probably going to attempt to cut it down for my needs since there seems to be quite the wait for high quality shortened aftermarket columns (plus they’re freaking expensive :eek:).

I've also been researching & sorting through info for a front sway-bar. I mocked-up a couple different combos & decided on a set-up that offered better clearance w/minimal intrusive fab work. I placed orders for all the misc sway bar parts yesterday.

What I think I learned . . …..

The OE GM bars & a couple aftermarket bars in my possession:
BellTech C10 'Sport' solid bar @ 1.375"OD @ 40-41"
Addco/Porterbuilt C10 solid bar @ 1.25"OD @ ~43-44"
2014 Ridetech 'MuscleBar' tubular 1.375"OD (?) @ ~45-46"
GM 73-87 C10 1.125"OD solid bar @ ~44-45” (off memory)
GM 73-87 C20/30 1.25"OD solid bar

My set-up on this project has about ~39" width between the end-link mounts as measured @ the a-arm. But, the 'link' bracket on the lower arms is angled/tilted in toward the center of the truck which makes the links (where they will meet the sway-bar) even narrower (~38"). None of the ‘on-hand’ bars would work as everything was too wide.

The BellTech bar was very close & the end-links were just outside of the brackets on the arms. I debated options to make this bar work but there were 2 problems that changed my direction: 1) The a-arm bracket angle mentioned above was opposite of the end-link angle of the sway-bar; 2) I noted that the set-up was extremely low (the lowest item on the front rails) when mounted. The mounting position on the frame is dictated by the alignment of the sway-bars end-link mount/the a-arm mounts & you can’t change that on a 1pc bar. This seemed counter-productive considering everything was modified for low ride height w/excellent ground clearance.

I also reached out to Nate (Porterbuilt) for bar info as he’s building them in house now. As always, he was helpful. But after more research, I decided to utilize a different approach.

I searched online for some sort of equation, calculator, or chart to better understand/compare the rate of the bars I had to help narrow a starting point on a modular set-up.
During this search I found some tech info for Ridetech's current C10 Strong-Arm 'MuscleBar' set-up: Tubular 1.5"OD x .250" wall bar w/a listed rate of 1020#. I'm using that as a comparison with the other bars I have by utilizing a spread-sheet for modular/splined bars I found @ Speedway Engineering (not SpeedwayMotors). It has info for modular/splined bars (bar-size, type, arm-length info/calcs).
While probably not 100% correct/exact on the 1pc. OE bar numbers, I know I’m somewhere in the ball-park vs. just assuming:

Fixed Rate
OE GM standard bar @ 1.125" solid w/14" arms = ~264# of anti-torsional twist
OE GM HD 1.25" solid w/14" arms @ 350#
Addco/PB 1.25" solid w/15" arms @ 330#
Bell Tech 1.375" solid w/14" arms @ 494#

2020 Ridetech/Musclebar 1.5" .250 wall tubular @ 1020# per online specs


Modular/Adjustable Rate
Speedway Eng. 1.5" hollow w/14" arms @ 549#
Speedway Eng. 1.5" hollow w/8" arms @ 957#
Speedway Eng. 1.375" solid w/8" arms @ 864#
Speedway Eng. 1.25" solid w/8" arms @ 617#


The 2020 Ridetech bar rate is confusing based on the fact that all the other bars (which are OE or direct OE configuration replacements) have a measured arm length of approx. 14". Using the Speedway spread sheet for their hollow bar @ 14" arm length indicates the 549# and that's w/thicker .500" wall tubing vs. Ridetechs .250" wall. I don't know if this new 'C10 MuscleBar' is somehow different.

A modular set-up allows moving the sway-bar back (closer) to the a-arms.
By moving the mounting location, I gain ground clearance because the rail starts rising as it gets closer to the main cross-member. This relocation also allows using shorter ‘arms’ for the bar. The shorter arms increase the rate of resistance @ the bar because of the inherent differences in leverage. A shorter arm in this application (sway-bar) = harder to move. Win/win. The 8" arm length is the result of the ‘new’ sway bar frame mount centerline.

Instead of having ~3” of ground clearance in a ‘stock’ placement position on the rails, I’ll now have 5.25”.

The 8” ‘arm’ length vs. the OE bars 14” increased a 1.25” solid bars rate of twist-resistance almost double vs. having to move up to a 'bigger' bar. Plus, the modular set-up allows tuning the rate up or down by having multiple positions on the ‘arms’ where they connect to the end-links. In this app, moving the end-link to 9” decreases the rate to ~547# or going the other way to 7” increases the rate to 705#. I will also have the option to use different bars (larger diameter; tubular or solid, ETC…) as the arms can easily be swapped over.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Dadgum, that's a lot of research. I like the extra ground clearance with the shorter arms

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You 'aint kiddin.....

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Don't be afraid of fabricating your own sway bars exactly to your liking.

I've made a few over the years.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

This modular approach seems good.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

70shortfleet on this forum built a van tilt column for me, shortened it 2", all new bearings, wiring, and plastics. Can't remember if I already said something to you... He has several options you can request. He is also half the cost of new reproduction units(the good ones). If at least, he could provide some information if you wanted to build it yourself.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/member.php?u=83680

:chevy:

Re: Project: Recycle
 

You did provide info but I wasn't aware of the/an ability to modify & shorten a column as well. Good to know!

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Parts came in yesterday so I did a quick assembly last night for a glamour shoot...

Unfortunately, I'm missing one of the end-links that I ordered (circled). I'm debating what to do about that @ this point because the piece that did come in uses Metric hardware that is too large for the spherical link. I'll have to remove the Metric stuff (10mm) for SAE (3/8") & modify accordingly for this app or just make some better suited from scratch.

Making them from scratch might be better since I don't have to 'undo' things first (stud welded in the bottom isn't quite long enough & one hole for the upright portion has to be drilled to the correct size; the stud & other hole are slightly larger 10mm vs. 3/8 holes) & it would allow me to put a slightly larger foot-print/base as well.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Got the 2nd/missing end-link mounting bracket for the a-arm side of things & I also purchased some materials in case I decide to make my own (for a better/beefier fit). The same parts shipment also had the 'male' ends of the end link fittings & new SS steering u-joints that will replace the mild-steel units I've had.

With all of the sway bar items now in house, I made some temporary 'arms' for mock-up purposes yesterday so I can install & ensure everything aligns as envisioned. I'll get it all installed tonight/this weekend & if things work as hoped, I'll get the actual steel arms whittled down to size next week.

I reached out to my longtime buddy that's a GM Tech & he feels confident that between the two of us we can shorten the column length.
So, if the sway-bar install is finalized this weekend, chopping the column down is next on my punchlist....

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Just mocked-up temporarily but it's in place.....

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Awesome. I notice the arms have a bit of a down angle to the stabilizer bar. How important is that to be level? Mine has a bit of an angle in rear and have been wondering about that.

:chevy:

Re: Project: Recycle
 

I think it's more camera angle than anything. I recall the arms are fairly level @ this set-up height (ride height give or take a smidge) when you look @ them while laying on the floor. If I need, I can always move the bar up inside the frame vs under but I feel ok for now.

I feel the important thing is keeping the link/s as plumb & aligned as possible. If it's in a slight bind sitting still, does it get worse when compressed/extended? I know it did w/my dually & killed the poly bushings in short order. It now has Ridetech's Posi-Links which seem to be holding up.

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Nice work Scoti!

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Thank you sir!

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Wow what a great Idea! Where did you come up with the black U-shaped bracket? Think this would work? - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spherical-F...Cclp%3A2334524
https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...1&d=1603477265

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Yes, the 'black' u-shaped bracket w/the red bushings in my pic is a Spohn Perf set-up. The other one is for a Toyota 4x4 from Tera Flex Suspension. The Spohn part is spec for F or G-body GM cars & is a direct bolt-in. It also fits where standard bushing-style end-links are intended like the aftermarket C10 bars/arms.

Re: Project: Recycle
 

Just a thought...you ought to paint the actual arms too look like your wood mock up parts. That will get people to scratch their heads...

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LoL...

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If that U-shaped bracket was mounted horizontally instead of vertical, ie. like the side of the a-Arm. Would it hold?

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It's a 5/8" bolt so whatever the yield strength is for that from a sheer perspective. I would imagine it would be fine since it's just a sway-bar link (if there was a failure it would not be catastrophic in operational nature). The hardware that retains/locates the heim is 3/8".

Re: Project: Recycle
 

There were a couple of different head-scratching moments but the column length reduction has begun.....

Re: Project: Recycle
 

I've got an OE '66 automatic column that I plan to shorten for my '65. Wish I had tilt too, but this will work for now. Let me know if you learn any pointers or don't do this type info that will help with the process...

Re: Project: Recycle
 

I'll post up the info as I trudge along. I had to get a fresh battery for my caliper today as it kept dying last night when I was documenting dimensions which halted things. I plan to cut things down tonight so I wanted all my data recorded for reference needs.

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That is why I keep a dial caliper around, if the battery dies on my digital, I can keep on going...:lol:

Re: Project: Recycle
 

I had one @ one point but kept it @ work. Apparently someone borrowed it one day & I'm waiting for its return :rolleyes: