Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

The ole guy in the Stupid Duty got me all worked up again tonight. Here is the result from last weekend’s episode and after spending all afternoon at the hospital. Doesn’t look bad on the surface but the BMW dealer is estimating $3000 to $4000 in damage. It is pretty banged up behind the bumper cover and there is an exhaust leak under the hood now, which could be part of the twin turbo $y$tem. Stupid girl in a Sonota nailed us doing about 40 MPH while we were going around a corner doing 2 to 5 MPH.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5053/...eb4f0e5c_b.jpg

Rant off….

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Sorry to hear about the accident. Glad everyone is OK. That's one reason I like the old truck: there is enough road noise to keep you off the phone so I'm not even tempted. Good lick on unloading the old gearbox. I can't wait to see the finished product.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

I know where you are coming from and glad everyone is ok. In the hands of inept person a car can be a weapon.

Sounds like the truck is coming along. Very impressive. I've learned a lot following your build. Thanks.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Md passed a law no hand held device while driving I saw a police officer talking on his cell while driving the law changed nothing.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Speedy recovery to your wife Larry. Sorry to hear about the bad luck and glad to hear about the good.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

A few interior work in progress photos. The Rhino turned out really nice but cost WAY TOO much! The Rhino dealer should have been wearing a ski mask! $668 is ridiculous!

The long test drive from the Rhino shop back home brought out a few issues that need dealt with. The suspect hose from the booster to the gear box finally started leaking which figured it would. The slave cylinder is also leaking at the bore where the push rod comes out and the clutch pedal doesn’t feel right with very little travel. Go figure….another piece of junk Napa part. Lastly, I am worried out this trans as it is pretty loud in 5th gear. Granted there was no insulation inside the cab at the time so once I get the interior back together it may be just fine….I hope! I do love the way the 8.1L runs with the NV4500 though, much more so than the ZF S6-650 in my 2001 HD.

My trip to Detroit this week was cancelled so now I have another week at home to play with it.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5220/...9d39d91e_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5017/...e13f3097_b.jpg

Oh, this heavy floor mat is a hassle to install and trim. This thing is heavy and tougher than heck. Funny...even the mat has the same texture as Rhino.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5136/...9dfbbfe4_b.jpg

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Ouch. You had better get a Christmas card from them.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Hi Larry. Interior looks great but ya ouch on the price.

2 things on the tranny noise:

1st: My friend and I have found through trial and error that the gears run loud (especially 4th and 5th) if a GL-5 oil is used instead of the GM/Dodge oil which is GL-4 rated. As soon as I swapped out the GL-5 for the GL-4 his trans was eerily quieter within 50 miles. I've been using AmsOil's version in mine and it too is quiet.

Risking foot in mouth here, I guess the theory is GL-5 oils are too tough or abrasive or don't have the protective properties for the soft yellow metals used in NV4500 sycros. I can't give ya a scientific reason, it's just something I learned through my experiences and info i've picked up along the way that a guy can't use GL-5 oil in the NV4500. Some someday someone will have to school me on GL ratings and oil properties. :lol:

2nd: Once again risking foot in mouth... I know you said at the beginning of this thread that the 8.1 uses a one piece flywheel but please look into any possible issues of using a Center Force clutch with your set up. You may be experiencing a balance issue which causes the 5th gear noise until it completely destructs. There are bulletins and notes in the GM's shop manuals about what to do with different clutch setups, i just don't know the specifics. My friend Tim installed a 12" Center Force DF clutch behind his 6.5 diesel. After the install 5th gear was very noisy and the trans granaded under 2,000 miles (empty truck) so bad he couldn't use it for a core. Come to find out there was a service bulletin in the diesel shop's manual stating a balancer needed to be installed on the tail shaft to use the Center Force DF with the NV. This was not the typical 5th gear nut issue.

You probably know all this already but i thought i would share what little i've picked up.

Nice seats by the way.

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I used the GM 12345349 Synchromesh fluid that the NV4500 calls for. Interesting on the clutch bulletin. Yeah, it has a one piece flywheel. I doubt that would be the deal but you never know as I have ran this part number clutch for years with no issues. Who knows…I don’t even really know if I have an issue until the interior is back together and drive it to see if the noise is still there. Between the Rhino, Dynomat, insulation and the rubber floor mat it should be pretty quiet inside. We’ll see. Gonna work on the interior more tonight. I dropped the driver’s seat back off at the upholstery shop this morning so they can finish the arm rests. Hope to see the seats by the end of the week.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

that sure is interesting. For my sake i hope its just a fluke because i just put my DF centerforce clutch in this weekend when i did my swap. I'm sure i'll rack up 2000 miles long before Larry does, so i'll let you guys know how it works out.

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Hey dude are you sure that Rhino lining shop owner isn't from the Congo? (Just finished reading that epic trip report on the nuts driving through Congo) The price seems steep for the inside of a regular cab truck. He'd probably want a grand to do the inside of the K5. It looks good, but DANG! Can't wait to see the chairs finished too.

As far as the trans noise goes, from reading the repair order when we pulled your trans out, the main complaint was that it was popping out of 5th under load. Noise wasn't a complaint at the time. It was pretty clean inside when you had it apart too. Plus lopping off the last 4 inches of the tailshaft and installing the collar to retain 5th should have eliminated the original problem we pulled it for in the first place. I can't remember from when we installed the collar if there was a possibility of it sliding and possibly installed in not quite the right spot. Considering the AA adapters were so tight in tolerances if the collar was too far to the rear (talking fractions of an inch here) it would be rubbing on the adapter. It might be worth it to take a sample of fluid to see if there are any flakes of metal in it.

Don't freeze your nuggets off in the garage tomorrow, it's supposed to be stupid cold at 0* compared to the 60+ we had Saturday. Gotta love Colorado weather!

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They claim the Rhino raping has more to do with prepping than materials. Aside from the prepping I already did they claim several hours of taping had to be done for the priming. They basically charged me the same amount as a full-size truck bed. Same price they quoted me to Rhino the bed of the Cracker. Still chaps my rear being I also bought the SnugTop from him and had other Rhino work done there.

Good to know the guy wasn’t complaining about noise. The noise may have just been exaggerated by the lack of interior insulation and boots on the shift towers. Man, installing this heavy duty rubber floor mat is a major undertaking of its own. Two nights work and still don’t have it completely fitted.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Some progress on the interior. Currently waiting on a set of new seat belts and the seats. Have a new clutch slave on order from Napa but other than that the interior is ready to go. The new stereo is in, tough as nails floor mat is in (Dynamat and insulation under it), and all the seat and seat belt holes have been located, which was a huge hassle through that thick rubber floor mat.

A while back someone asked if the Superbrite LED’s that I put in the cluster dimmed with the dimmer switch. To my surprise yes, they do. The lights are really brightened up the cluster too! I highly recommend them. It is nice to have a newer cluster that actually works. I haven’t had interior signal lights for years due to a broken printed circuit.

Once I get seats and belts and replace the slave it will finally be time for a good test drive to see about that possible transmission noise. I’ll deal with the seeping hose then too as I’ll need to drive it to the hydraulic shop to show them what needs to be fixed.

From this…

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4124/...7d4e2049_b.jpg

To this…. The center console had to be moved back 3 inches to clear the twin stick shifter.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/...754a2305_b.jpg

How do you like the nice cargo net I borrowed out of a Chevy HHR rental car. It works great to keep winch controls, snatch straps, TP and gloves in. :lol:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/...f7febc14_b.jpg

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Funny you mention the clutch pedal feeling funny. My set up right now with the newer slave and early master has a lot of travel but the clutch acts quickly towards the very bottom. Being used to driving my dads truck with the sm465 and manual clutch, it feels completely different and weird. After almost a week now, i'm used to it. fifth gear isn't real noisy in mine, but all the gears have that awkward low rpm rumble like a 465 has. im still rocking the hole in the floor while i figure out my boot situation, so everything seems super loud.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Larry, you got any plans for making the t-case shift handles match the trans shifter?

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

jonessmc87,

Yep, that is exactly how my pedal feels. I probably could get used to it but since it is leaking hopefully a new one fill correct the leak and improve the pedal feel. This hydro clutch feels nothing like my 2001 HD but I haven’t driven a GM truck with an external slave in probably 17 years. I’ll keep ya posted.

jbclassix,

Actually, I haven’t thought about that. I did screw on the original 205 knob to the ORD twin stick just for kicks a whiel back but the threads were different. When I bought the new NV4500 shift knob I ordered two, which even they have different threads than the original 205 lever, 465 lever and still different threads than the ORD twin stick levers. I might have to look into some adapters to make the ’78 style knobs fit but I don’t mind the little round balls.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Looks Killer. Where's the pic's of the 8-track?

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

what thread are they? I will keep my eyes open for something... i have also re-threaded a few knobs.

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Zooo,

It even came with a little bitty remote too :lol:
http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchf...5KDA525-F.jpeg

Jb,

I am not sure. I’ll have to take a look tomorrow. Now you got me wanting to make OEM knobs fit the ORD shifter. :lol:

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Nice tunebox. How's it sound? At least it looks like it's not overly complicated to run. Some of these new stereos need a degree in sound engineering to operate.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Larry,
maybe i missed it, but did u post a picture somewhere of those new super bright LEDs at night. you got me pretty curious.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Naw, I haven’t taken any pictures of them yet. I’ll grab some at night and post them up.

These are the bulbs I got as suggested by member Zoomad75.
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...%2FWLED-x5.htm

Got the new clutch slave installed Saturday and the clutch works much better now. Works like it should! Between a replacing the slave that was leaking out of the bore and a much more thorough bleeding made all the different. You might want to try bleeding yours more when you get a chance.

Still waiting on my seats! Errrr :m6:

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Nice build! Your truck really looks great. I like the pic with the mountains in the background. Looks like there is some good wheelin in your neighborhood. We are thinking of moving to that area, sort of south from Denver. How do you like it?

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Im gonna borrow your thread for a minute Larry... if you do move out here, you wanna swing up to Lancrapster and bring my sisters jeep out to me so i have something economical to drive? just kidding!:lol:

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

So I'm sitting on my arse eating a chili-dog while I surf the net and my doorbell rings tonight. I look at my better half and think who's here now? Open the door and it's DirtyLarry and the distinct rumble of a 8.1L at the end of my driveway. Come check it out! I ditched the dog and grabbed my jacket. Our buddy Bill is sitting shotgun and Larry pushes the seat back and tells me to go take it around the block. With the disclaimer of "Don't Wreck IT!" being announced as I shut the door. He knows me all too well, or at least my heavy right size 14 shoe.

Bill and I take off and I can say this, a nv4500 is no dump truck trans. The shifter is much more positive and slick to engage than a new 465 ever could. It's not quite like a rifle bolt in precision like a car with a quality aftermarket shifter assembly but it's pretty close. As I climb up in the gears I can hear the noise that Larry was talking about. The noise isn't consistent with speed. I can best describe it as more of a rattle. The noise is there as long as it's in gear, but will go away in neutral and the clutch pedal released. It's worse in 5th but still not obscene or loud enough to drown out conversation. It almost sounds it could be coming from the t-case, but it's hard to tell. He's going to drive it and play around with different t-case shift positions to see if he can isolate the noise between the trans and t-case.

Overall impressions.. This truck rides and drives like no 1978 ever did. The 8.1 pulls like a locomotive, shifts smooth and the rides smooth. I can remember riding in this truck when Larry first moved to Detroit and it was just running the 3/4 ton axles and buckboard wagon stiff suspension with 350/350 auto trans combo. Man what a difference. It's been a long time coming, but this truck is dialed in. I can't wait to see this beast shredding some snow soon! I got to say this, the seats came out great too. Worth the wait. Good job dude!

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Awesome! Excellent execution on the upgrade project!

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Larry, the described noise sounds familiar. One day when i make it down to Pueblo you can drive my tired old girl around and tell me if the rattle is the same.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Thanks Coyote,

You seem like a nice guy so I tell ya, it is a great place. I hate for this to be our first conversation but here goes……I am a native with a 6 year hiatus in Detroit years ago but don’t be surprised if you aren’t exactly greeted with open arms by native Coloradoans. Over the past 15 years there has been a mass outbreak of Californians and Texans moving here (mainly Denver....luckily we are 140 miles away from Denver) driving up our housing costs to ridiculous levels and bringing their liberal laws with them. Many of us aren’t real happy about that. So tell your neighbors CO is a terrible place where we still wear 6 shooters on our hip and are a bit trigger happy. You, however, are welcome to come here because you are a truck guy and obviously not a California bunny hugging pansy that would move here and push to close our trails, etc. But get rid of your California license plates as quickly as you can! CO doesn’t like CA like NH doesn’t like MA people moving there.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Joness87,

Here is terrible picture of the LED lights in the cluster. My old camera doesn’t like to take pictures with the flash off very well.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/...e8f64641_b.jpg

Got Seats! The cloth fabric in the middle is 2010 Silverado/Sierra cloth.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5093/...25fac665_b.jpg

I had him add pockets behind the seats for additional storage. Can’t have too many cubby holes to store snacks and maps when on the trail for 7 days at a time.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5097/...a78c31ef_b.jpg

I’ll get a better picture of the interior in the daylight tomorrow.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5212/...eb477982_b.jpg

Took it for a long test drive tonight, probably about 60 miles into and around Pueblo (went to see Rob). The transmission does make a lot of noise that it shouldn’t. Not really sure what the plan is at this point other than drive it for a while then check the fluid for any metal debris. I have heard some Dodge owners complain of how noisy the NV4500 is so I wonder if I just wound up with the noise end of the spec limit transmission. I’ll be keeping my ears peeled on this issue. Rob is right, it does sound more like a rattle.

Other than that, it runs great! WOW, I love the NV4500 behind the 8.1L much more so than the ZF S6-650 in my Silverado. The NV4500 shifts like a race car compared to the 465 and the S6-650. The gear split is better matched for a tuned 8.1L as well. It acts much more athletic around town.

Better interior pictures coming soon.

Yeah, JB…next time you are down this way you’ll have to stop by as I am curious to see what another NV4500 sounds like. The only other ones I have access to are behind rattly Cummins diesels.

Sorry you had to eat a cold chili-dog zoo! :lol:

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I was almost done with the dog, no worries. The 4500 shifts very much like the nv3500 in my S10. Not surprising as they share some similar design characteristics. It's a fun truck to drive for sure. It should be a pleasant place to ride for a week at a time out in the boonies. I couldn't say that for the same truck we would bounce all over in to our one and only mexican joint in the burbs of Detroit for lunch. It's come a long way.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

WOW not only is the interior really good looking but it's functional too. Worth the wait on the seats.After seeing your set up I might take your idea with the buckets and console for my truck.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Larry,
Is it noisy mostly or more so in 5th gear only? IF so did you happen to grab the Mainshaft 5th gear and rock it back and forth while holding the mainshaft? IT should have a slight press fit and not rock at all. If it does it may have the typical 5th gear wear. The only real fix for this issue is a new mainshaft and mainshaft 5th gear. My nv4500 has this issue so I am expecting it to be noisy, especially in 5th. Mins is currently a 2wd version and is staying that way for now, later I will covert it to 4x4 and will replace the 5th gear/shaft at that time. I do not have the funds for the 4x4 conversion but need the transmission now, so in it goes as is 2WD.
...Jason

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Jason,

The noise rattle is pretty much always there but gets louder in 5th. When we had the trans apart everything looked fine so time will tell. I can live with the noise as long as it isn’t self destructing or gets worse. We’ll see in time. :lol:

A few better pictures of the interior. Was hoping to get some outside in the light but there is a 2 ft snow drift in front of the shop door. Truck will make it in and out fine, I just don’t feel like shoveling out the shop once the door opens. :lol:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/...32846290_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5056/...be5c6e62_b.jpg

1990 Suburban cluster
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/...2b9c827e_b.jpg

From this…
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5208/...ee876174_b.jpg

To this…
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/...8a756f8c_b.jpg

To this.....
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5220/...9d39d91e_b.jpg

To this…...... I sure don’t miss those Husky Floor mats, as they never allowed full movement of the gas pedal. I must have gained 25 more HP by being able to poke the pedal further down. :lol:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5214/...7e018558_b.jpg

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Larry,
I agree, time will tell. When I researched these nv's before getting mine I found they rarely succumb to a catastrophic failure with the proper lubricant level and type. Even the typical dodge 5th gear failure will usually still allow the transmission to function in all other gears. I did notice while carefully inspecting mine that it had a number of bearings that were not looking good with some scoring. However mine had lots of miles, nearly 200k in a heavy application that was towing to boot, and as previously noted my 5th gear is loose on the shaft. Everything else looked really good.

Your interior really looks great!! The seat upholstery really look a lot better.
JLT

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Larry, those LEDs look awesome, and you didn't have to do anything else, just plug and play right?

I know the rattle your talking about, mine does it too, but i wont know how bad it is until i get the floor back together (dynamat shows up today)

for the life of me, i cant seem to locate a shift knob. I'm currently using an old 205 shift knob for my nv shifter. What did those knobs come in, at this point i'll just order one from GM. Thanks bud.

my 205 shift bracket showed up last night so i'll be back to 4wd tomorrow hopefully.....

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

Yeah, the LED’s are plug and play. I don’t recommend putting them in the turn signal indicator spots though as they do not pull enough resistance for your signals to work correctly. I ordered 7 bulbs and have one left over. Now I wish I would have put that 7th one in the HVAC control head. Will do that someday.

Starting to sound like many NV4500’s are rattley. I thought the ZF S6-650 was loud! It is nothing compared to the NV4500.

The shift knob part number is 15982540. This was part number was discontinued through GM years ago but it is still available from Workhorse. Workhorse is the old GM P-chassis stripped chassis that is still used under UPS trucks, bread vans, etc today (NV4500's were dropped in 2005 though). Go to www.workhorse.com to find a dealer near you to order one.

Keep in mind, the 15982540 knob has different threads than the original SM465 shifter. I suspect they are metric. I can’t remember which shifter you ended up using on yours.

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Guys,
I wonder if the Damper that goes between the tranfer case/transmission would alleviate any of the "rattle" (They were more typical on diesel transmission but some of the gasser nv4500's had 'em too). I am sure with the Advanced adapters you are using it would not work for you Larry, it does not appear to leave much room in the transmission tailhousing. Not sure what combo you are using jonessmc87.
JLT

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

That is a good point JLT. I am still going to keep my eyes open for a newer 32 spline round 205 in case I ever decide to change to that concoction, which I think would leave room for the damper. Snj8198 would probably know for sure as that is how his is bolted together. Same with Jonessmc87 . The round 205 is a much better way to go about a NV4500 swap over the kit I used but I couldn’t find a round 205 at the time.

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Your interior turned out sharp Larry. You gota be proud to cruise in that.

The damper that JLT mentioned is what my friend Tim put in his after granading his 1st NV. The replacement (used) trans is much quieter with the damper.

Re: NV4500 swap is underway
 

I didn't mean to stop up your thread, and appreciate the reply. We want to move away for the same reason you don't want Californians there... Your interior looks really dialed in! Hope you figure out your trans issues.