Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

For what the top x brace has done due you think doing the bottom might be over kill.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Thanks McMurphy!



The lower half of the frame rails still flex and rotate under the brace a good bit. The lower brace with tubes welded in to tie the two X's together will hopefully eliminate nearly all the twisting.
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Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Man this build is over the top!!! (and I thought I was crazy :-)

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

So with this much frame reinforcement, you are.....
dropping in a badazz drivetrain with sheetons of torque, or do you just live on a really bad road?

I just figure this much engineering has to be for something (of course I probably missed it if you already explained it. Either it didnt sink in, or you didnt use small enough words and concepts for me to follow) Hahahahah.

I do really like reading, Ok .... looking .... at this thread.

I am gonna sit in the corner with my crayons now and not be a nusince....

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Thanks dude!!



Crayons huh... Somebody should send you a PPG coloring book! :haha:

I'm bracing the frame to keep it from twisting down its length. Right now it twist quite easily, much like a torsion bar would twist. The overall goal is to make the frame stiff so that the suspension works as it should instead of the frame deflecting and changing/reducing the effectiveness of the suspension's geometry. I'd like to eventually autocross the truck occasionally just for fun; I really enjoy driving anything that is nimble and responsive but I don't think just bolting on performace suspension parts will get the truck to the level I want it. A stiffer frame should make the truck more predictable, more solid feeling, have less sqeaks and rattles, and give a better overall driving experience. As far as the drivetrain, I'll eventually build an original 250 inline 6 for it, looking to get 350+hp from it. It'll get backed by a T56 six speed and a posi rear end.
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Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Very nice thought process, looks like you have thought of everything. ;) I'm watching and learning.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Astronaut love what's happening with your build, I am curious though how or what is your plan to extract 350 hp out of that 250 inline? I know they are doing crazy things with the inline down in Brazil so I know it's possible. Just wondered what your thoughts were on the motor so far. Thanx...Vernski:burnout:

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

I dont know about that, this is my first time working on a ladder type frame since I've always had unibody VW's that are pretty stiff to start with. Im sure theres things I've overlooked since I'm new to this. I couldnt find much to go on so Ive tried to analyze how the frame is flexing and figure out what "direction" each section of the individual frame rails are moving in when it flexes- thats helped me figure out what style of bracing should help the most, and where the bracing should be the most effective.



Here's what I've got planned so far. The hp numbers I posted are just a rough guess, but it shouldn't be too hard to make around 1.4 hp per cubic inch with a roller cam; my vw motor will make right at 1.5 hp/ci with a solid flat cam. 250x1.4 is 350, and I'm not sure how many cubic inches will be added from boring yet.


Bore the block enough to clean up the cylinders and leave enough meat for any future rebuild.
Balanced stock crank.
Lighten the flywheel.
Eagle forged 4340 rods, 5.7"
Forged pistons, haven't found any "off the shelf" yet. I think it can be bored enough to fit 305 pistons.
Head bolt boss removed from intake port, lump port kit installed.
Larger valves, ported heads, decked for more compression.
Block decked for .040-.050 deck height/quench.
13:1ish compression (will be running E85, 105 octane)
Solid roller cam, wanting it to pull to around 7000-7200 rpm.
Comp Cams Aluminum roller rockers, 1.75 ratio.
ARP main and head stud kit.
Triple Weber/Dellorto 2 barrel side draft carbs, or triple throttle bodies/efi.
6 into 1 header, single 3" exhaust, magnaflow/dynomax straight through muffler? I'll probably go though a few mufflers to get the sound I want, I'm pretty picky about how I want it to sound.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

I like the race magnum that they have. My buddy has them on his race truck and I them on my Duramax Diesel and they sound great.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Ok all kidding aside, that is an awesome explanation and just made me consider the overall design of the truck all over again. Are you going with the 250ci over the 292ci due to availability of parts or is there another reason? I ask because the 292 should give you a higher base line HP platform to start from, and is still an IL6 and bolts up to everything without adding too much additional weight.

With double or triple carbs, you are still going to go with a 6 to1 exhaust manifold instead of a dual exhaust? I see you are planning on 3" pipe but still.... on the other hand it would help keep the weight down I suppose.
With the dual exhaust there is still the option of installing electric exhaust dumps at an H or X crossover.
No doubt you are planning on a hotter ignition system, if not full electonic?
What are your plans for air flow? Cold air induction, or some form of forced air like a blower or ram air?
And I am guessing you are going to go with the smaller high torque starter as well, or will your flywheel shaving not make that a good idea? I guess the last thing you want to do is disintegrate your flywheel....

I hope to keep up with your engine build a lot easier than I can with the re-engineering of your frame!!

This is going to be a great build...glad I got into it on the first posting !!
Rock on man !!

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

I was able to find a 250 that's only 92 engines apart from the original engine, and the shorter stroke will rev better. The crank and rods are also lighter weight so they won't be as stressed at higher RPM's compared to a 292. The deck height is about 2" shorter so the block itself will weigh less, and the less weight on the nose of the truck the better.

I don't like the exhaust sound of split headers, and a 6-1 header should make better power if the tubes are arranged in the right pattern in the collector. As far as ignition, I haven't looked into what is available yet but probably MSD or Mallory or similar if I use carbs. If I go efi I'll use a crank trigger and Ford EDIS with individual coil packs. Induction will be N/A but I'm considering using the two openings in the hood to make a cold air box that will seal down on the carbs. The front edge of the hood has some rust in it so I'm not completely against modifying the inner brace for air ducts since I'll be cutting and welding on the hood anyways. I'm not quite sure what to do about the flywheel yet since I don't know if the stock one will withstand 7000+ rpm. If not I'll have to buy an aftermarket flywheel. A high torque starter would be less weight but I want the engine to be detailed like GM would have built it, so I'll have to try to disguise it if I use one.
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Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

http://www.stoveboltengineco.com/ has parts and tips including ignition.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Thanks for taking the time to post that link!

I poked around on there for awhile and didn't really find much info that I thought would be helpful for my 250 build. He posted that 200-250 hp is about all you can get for a "streetable" engine and 300hp wouldn't be streetable at all? 200hp isn't even 1 hp per cubic inch and there's a ton of factory engines (even old ones) that make atleast 1 hp/ci or more that are perfectly driveable and mild mannered. I think he's mostly into old school style power adders and not more modern (and better performing) parts. Newer style triple Weber's/Dellorto's with individual manifolds gets rid of reversion and the air/fuel charge problems that plenum/log type manifolds have, so they retain bottom end torque/smoothness even with huge cams. With pump E85 (105 octane) I can run alot of compression that helps add even more low end torque. I think most people that hot-rod inline engines do it for the old school style instead of actual performance gains and that's why there aren't many modern/newer technology hop up parts for them.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

I don't know why I've been posting about 6 into 1 headers, there's only four exhaust ports... :dohh:

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

I think I did that to you along the line of 6 cylinders into one exhaust tube, not necessarily 6 ports. I am glad someone else remembered the Stovebolt site, I could not recall it at the time I made my posts.

I cut my hood support in the front last weekend as well, like what you are talking about for forced (ram) air.
Cannot wait to see how you do yours!!

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Here is another link for performance parts for the 250 inline 6.
http://www.cliffordperformance.net/

Looks like they only have a split header for the 250. You could fab your own 6 into 1 header. on the 250 there IS 6 ports, but ports (2 & 3) and (4 & 5) only have bolt holes for the flange on the outter edges of the ports and not between them. If you look at the head and the gasket, those pairs of ports are divided by about a 1/4" of material making them separate ports.

The cast split headers on the stovebolt web site look like 4 ports on the outside, but I bet they are split on the inside...

I use to have a 6 in mine, made 250 hp easy. You could build 300 hp and still be steatable with a standard trans...

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Sweet! How much faster does it go now?!? :lol: I'm thinking of some sort of sheetmetal duct work and airbox that seals down on the air filters.





You're right, I was looking at dad's 292 from about 20 feet away when I was posting and only saw the four exhaust legs on the manifold. No problem making my own headers if I need to. The guys in brazil are getting 300+ hp at the wheels, the one guy I posted vids of is getting 373hp at the wheels with 15:1 CR and methanol!!

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Pump fuel will probably be the limiting factor, the turbo will more than make up for the breathing limitations of a straight 6. I can't wait to see your progress, very cool stuff.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Nice build thread! I texted you last year about the extra bbw cab you had for sale, and I think I still have your number saved in my phone. I'm originally from Abbeville. I was looking through your posts and I think I recognize the place in some of your pics. Do you work at the place behind the high school right off of the 28 bypass? I remember taking a 50 Pontiac Chieftain convertible there to have a windshield put in when I worked at John's Rod Shop. After I left John's I worked at the Line-X right there across from the high school on 28 bypass.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

I'll use an electric pump and run the line thru a gutted stock pump. Best of both worlds.


That's us! I got the bed strips for my '66 from John, and had the bed in the blue '65 sprayed at that Line-X. Small world!!
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Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

fantastic work... and well written thread too.
man, i'm enjoying your build. and thanks.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

I think he means standard gasoline you get at the pump.... Only so much you can legally do to raise the octane in that stuff. After that you are no longer street legal if I am not mistaken. :uhmk:


For my ram air I am thinking of a cowl induction not dissimilar to the old GTO RAM III and RAM IV but with one of those dog eared Oldsmobile air intakes.

Fun times !!

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

[QUOTE=theastronaut;5170017]I'll use an electric pump and run the line thru a gutted stock pump. Best of both worlds.

Thanks McMurphy I am referring to octane, 93 pump gas will limit the horsepower for a street ride. Race fuel or octane boost if the compression is too high to hit the upper horsepower. I'm no builder, just what my builder told me. Do you have a way around that, or does the turbo compensate for the pump gas?

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Thought I recognized the place. I'd love to check out your project sometime when I'm back down that way. I need to get down there within the next few weeks to get some work done on mine(It's at my parent's house in Abbeville). My frame is sitting outside in primer, and I've got to get it painted before it starts to rust lol.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Glad you're enjoying it!!



I did misread that as "fuel pump" instead of pump fuel. :o. Can't wait to see what you come up with for your ram air system, sounds like its going to be awesome!



We have 105 octane E85 ethanol/gas blend at nearly every station around here and it's a good bit cheaper than regular 87 octane gasoline. It only has about 70-80% of the thermal energy that gasoline has, so it has to be jetted richer to compensate. It uses more fuel that way but since it's cheaper the cost per mile should be about the same. Since its 85% alcohol it also runs way cooler than gas does, so it helps the engine to run cool even with way high compression. For now I'll use three two barrel Dellorto carbs or triple throttle body efi. A turbo isn't out of the question but that would be way down the road after everything else is done and sorted out.


Let me know when you're in the area and I'll give you the grand tour :lol: My frame is outside too so it's gotta be sandblasted again since its already started rusting.
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Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

We have 105 octane E85 ethanol/gas blend at nearly every station around here and it's a good bit cheaper than regular 87 octane gasoline. It only has about 70-80% of the thermal energy that gasoline has, so it has to be jetted richer to compensate. It uses more fuel that way but since it's cheaper the cost per mile should be about the same. Since its 85% alcohol it also runs way cooler than gas does, so it helps the engine to run cool even with way high compression. For now I'll use three two barrel Dellorto carbs or triple throttle body efi. A turbo isn't out of the question but that would be way down the road after everything else is done and sorted out.


Aaaah the E85 didn't consider that, we don't have it here in canuck ville. I got into straight sixes when I had a '48 Chev Coupe, so I'm looking forward to your progress.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Well, it looks like it'll be even longer til I get started back on Goldilocks. The engine in my daily started knocking so I've got to fix that now. I got the engine out tonight and it's torn down to a short block, hope to have it back together in a few weeks, depending on the extent of damage and the time it takes for the trip to California and back for machine work. It's getting harder and harder to find quality parts for VW's and even tougher to find shops that know how to work on them. I'll try to get started back on the frame while everything is at the machine shop, the symptoms of C10 fever are still in full effect and I need a good dose of project progress!
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Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

or.... more cowbell!

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Check your email!!
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Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Your killing me smalls!!

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Ok, to keep everyone "in the know", I'd emailed MalibuKasey a link to a post on here about some KILLER custom billet 18x8 and 18x10 wheels that look just like stockers, even down to the rivets on the backside! I've been drooling over these things since they were first posted, but the price tag is, umm, "steep" to say the least. I'd have to sell Goldilocks and my VW to be able to afford them!


Details here:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...8&postcount=43

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1331253852

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1331253852

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1331253852

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1331253852

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

The VW knock turned out to be an easy and cheap fix, it was just a broken cam thrust flange. It didn't tear anything else up so no machine work needed, and only about $150 in parts to fix the damage and upgrade so it doesn't happen again. That means more cash left over for Goldilocks. :metal: I should be picking up a T56 soon so I can get everything mocked up.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

glad to hear about the Beetle...kinda wish i still had my '63, but with all the traffic around here i'll stick with my automatic S-10 (i'm no manual trans. expert, ha)....and that's interesting about the wheels...i subscribed just so i can keep up with whatever updates are made...but kinda like Scoti, it looks like i'll be sticking with 15's, lol

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Yeah, I'll probably stick with my stock 15's until I figure out what I'm going to do about wheels. I eventually want to go with bigger brakes that will make bigger wheels necessary though. The 12" discs it has now already require a 1/4" spacer to clear the 15's. The Titan rims aren't going to work after all since the offset is all wrong and no way to fix them. I'm kind of itching for lightweight 18/19" forged three peice wheels but I'd really rather have something more original/classic looking.

I don't think I could drive an automatic daily, I'd go crazy! Our whole family only owns one automatic car, so I grew up driving stick and still love the extra driver interaction and the ablity to always to be in the right gear at the right time- something an auto can't always do.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

yeah, i guess if i had grown up around manuals i'd be more fond of them...i know lots of people enjoy shifting gears....my wife used to drive a stick in high school, and she loved it....some pics of my old beetle:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...20VW%20Beetle/

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

I am planning to go manual trans in mine too!!

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

I've been following you build and I would like to know if you ran into any issues when you flipped the center crossmember? I was considering buying a new dropped crossmember but I might change my mind after seeing what you did. I've seen builders just flip the trailing arm mounts (which is a lot of rivets to remove!) but not the whole crossmember.

Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

If I remember right, there's 12 rivets to remove the T/A crossmember. There's doubler plates on the bottom of the frame rail that have four rivets each. I already had the crossmember out of it so it was easier to flip it than take the T/A mounts off. If you take the mounts off though, you can easily fab brackets that are adjustable. I don't have my trans in yet to check for driveshaft clearance at full drop, but I'll probably have to raise the top of loop to clear the shaft. The biggest reason I had it out was I wanted to get rid of the rivets and weld the crossmembers back in to get rid of flex. It would probably be easiest to just take the brackets off if your's is already together.
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Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Since there no physical progress being accomplished, I'll post the "mental progress". :lol:

When I bought the truck it came with an old Esso filling station key chain, and the previous owner told me the history of the truck. It was bought new by a guy that started working at our local downtown Esso station when he was in high school. He eventually took over the station when the station owner retired. I've had a few guys tell me that they remember the truck being parked at the station, and usually inside if there was room for it. When he passed away (around '08) a family member got it and kept it until our mechanic bought it.

So I'm thinking about doing some door art (?) with an Esso logo and the old address and phone number. I don't think I want it to cover a large part of the door though, like most guys have on their doors. Or I may not even put anything on the sides of the truck and just use the corner of the tailgate. Either way, I want to somehow get an Esso logo and the "Thomas Esso Station" name on the truck somewhere but do it more tastefully than the typical door art.


http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/c253d838.jpg
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Re: Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build
 

Finally some real progress!!!! :metal:


I pulled the column out today after work and started shortening it. Decided to go three inches since that seems to be about as much as you can shorten it, and I don't like being close to the steering wheel when driving. I put about 100 miles on the blue '65 I restored this weekend and the first thing I noticed was how close the steering wheel was.


I disassembled it and stripped it to bare metal with a DA to have a clean starting point.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/f84bea86.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/b0263f3d.jpg


Decided where my first cut would be. It would have been easier to move the cut back a little but I wanted to save the "M" in the split of the tube. :crazy:

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/5ddcf2df.jpg


I blacked out the area with a sharpie and used a sway bar clamp off my VW for an even edge to scribe the cut line.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/6e636ee3.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/ff5e5e82.jpg



Then measured 3" over and made another scribed line, and cut out the middle.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/32a1c2f6.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/17afb727.jpg


Reassembled on a piece of angle iron to align the two pieces. You can see how the clamps help make an even cut for a tight joint. I also beveled the edges slighly for better penetration.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/2f69569a.jpg


Welded up.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/07540f55.jpg


And the welds ground down and smoothed with the DA. I cut out the groove where it was welded along the seam with a triangle file so the weld area matches the split along the length of the tube. Nobody will ever see it but that kinda stuff drives me crazy if I know its there.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/c003ecc1.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/31dfbe54.jpg