Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

At least words are fat-free. ;)

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

I talked to the lady that is going to roll out the center roof section for me today.
ended up getting a 4X10 sheet of cold rolled 20 gauge , so I will have a bunch left over for patches and other stuff on other projects...
the piece I need for the roof is about 5X3.

as of now the roof skin is cut in half side to side about 4 inches from the back of the door. I will have a new 30-32 inch long, by 65 inch across piece rolled out to put in the gap, there will be 2 seams running side to side.

on another post a member mentioned gluing his roof skin back on after replacement, and after it is all one piece again I am thinking of doing that as well

so I have options on putting the 3 pieces of roof skin together and would appreciate opinions if you have 'em!

1) but weld and hammer weld: I have a guy that can do it, but it is probably around $40-$60 an hour, and maybe a 6 hour job?

2) slowly tack it together with the mig: I could do this, and do about 6 half inch beads a couple times a day until it is done.

3) flange it and use glue to glue it together instead of welding: the first guy also suggested this, he mentioned putting a few holes to weld it as well, but the glue would do most of the work

4) the sheet metal lady mentioned that she has a spot welder with a 24 inch reach: she suggested flanging it and spot welding it , then lead on the seam ( I don't , and don't know anyone that does lead, or solder around here) the 24 inch reach wont quite get the center of the front seam as well,about 12 inches short, it could get the entire back seam.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

It sounds like you have found a good sheetmetal shop over there.

If money wasn't an object, I would go with #1. Welding it yourself is cost effective, but if you're luck is like mine, you'll end up with warpage or an oil can. The panel adhesive probably makes the most sense these days, I just have not used it on a large panel like a roof.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

them 2 panels can be welded ! go to the site -metal meet . com. then go to the forums and look up rod doc postings -this is a good site about doing metal skin welding ! most people use 18 ga. ?? good luck

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

Great job Jon...Have you thought about trimming a 60-66 burb roof skin to fit? If you could find one to cut up.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

I have 2 'burbs, ...not gonna cut either up, but I did look at it to see if it was a possibility...
the burb roof is much taller than a truck (from the drip rail to the crown), so to use it you would have to cut it all around the perimeter and pancake it.

mentioning this brings up another bit of research I did the other day:
I looked into using 2 or 3 steel stock inner headliners.
I was thinking I could cut 15 inches out of the widest part of a couple of them, and splice them all together.. problem is , the little rectangle shapes that are stamped in them are all different sizes, they follow the slowly narrowing contour of the roof, they are all about 1/2 to 1/4 inch narrower front to back.

so then I looked at the 'burb headliner and braces , since I do have access to one of those, but after looking, it was a no go, all the inner sheet metal is taller to fit the different suburban roof...

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

Hey Jon if you decide to weld your roof panel yourself check out this build by mp&c http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=564201&page=5 post 107 to 134 and post 192. This is the technique I'm going to use on my suburban roof

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

thanks guys... that stuff is INSANE!!!, man I wish I could just whip stuff like that out.

I will have to cut a couple pieces of metal and give that method a try, and see what happens..

I will have my piece made a little oversize, so I can trim it to fit the hole if I can successfully do this method.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

Cool build ,just went through it all.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

When you say "flange it and use glue to glue it together instead of welding" do you mean to put an offset into the panels & overlap them, then glue them with panel adhesive?
I personally think that this is a great idea, and if you aren't totally comfortable with this you could always drill a few holes in the outer panel of the "overlap" to plug weld in designated spots to add strength.
They glue entire van sides on from the factory with this stuff to avoid warpage, why wouldn't it work on your roof?
Go talk to a major collision repair shop in your area, and I am sure that they can point you in the correct direction.
I randomly spot-welded, and finished a lot of the seams in my truck with a panel adhesive made by SEM that is used for this specific purpose...Not cheap, but easier to deal with than warped panels.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

yep , that is the other option the hammer weld guy had for me, and still might be an option I will go with.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

this is a wild job you are doing ....thanks for the tip heating it up and hitting it with water

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

isn't that just amazing? I had an old body shop guy teach it to me when I was helping him do a 38 Buick I was astounded the way after the heat cool cycle that the frozen bolts just came right out!

I only had the one screw break on me, and if I had been a little more patient, and done a couple more heat/cool cycles, and tapped it with a hammer a little bit, I probably could have saved it.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

I will be doing the same thing to the back doors very soon.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

here is the inside of the post for screw access, and the round leaded edge that you don't want to heat from the inside if possible

you can see all the little tack welds on the edge, pretty easy to remove

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

I think it helped immensely that I cut all the little tack welds off the center post inner panel, and got access to the threads and nuts (the nuts are welded to the floating plate) of these screws.

If you have an oxy/acetylene unit, it is much easier to use and control the heat.
I was using an old oxy/propane torch, and it is pretty clumsy.

you want to try not to heat up the pillar metal that is behind the lead seam on the edge, and if you can, just heat the nut, so that you don't melt the threads.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

well, there is a lull in progress right now...
yesterday I wrote down a big list of what needed to be done for the entire build, so now I need to get it in order and and start crossing stuff off.

I am thinking that I should probably do the frame out at the yard, since most of that stuff is still out there, and then finish the cab up at home so that when it's ready I can just drop it on and go!

so with list in hand I figured I would spend the day shopping at the local wrecking yard....
got a bunch of cool stuff-more than this one build, but stuff I wanted.

I have a decent 60 hood, but I really like the 61 hood better (it has a hard defined edge connecting the "pods" at the back, while the 60 is kind of a soft roll) so I got one for this , and 1 to replace the 60 hood that is on my 65 too!
also scored a set of emblems with each one: "apache 10", and "apache 20".

I grabbed a couple of fenders that aren't too rusty in the back, patch panels will fix 'em, and I will either use these on this build, or steal the ones that are already done that I have for my suburban , and use these on it.

got a nice little pile of parts: a couple cowl extensions without holes or dents, a whole pile of front end bolts, door panels, glove box door, 2 heater controls to make 1 good one, heater deletes 60-61, and 62-66, 60-63 radio deletes, a 62 washer wiper switch, gas pedal , throttle knob, ash tray, headlight rings, and 1 (wish there had been 2!) apache 30 emblem.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

Nice score on the parts. Wish we had junk yards like that around here

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

If you have any pics of where the bottom of the doors line up and meet the rockers that would be great. I got both front doors today fitting pretty good but both of them are short about 3/8" compared to the backs. Mat have to re-skin a portion to make them line up better. Thanks

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

nice find ...what happen to all the snow you had ...looks like a spring day lol

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

here is what I have:
I measured from the jamb to the edge of the rocker and got 50 inches, this is also the same measurement on my 63 which is as it left the factory...

looks like the driver rear door is a tiny bit low, but it is all dented up too!

couldn't get a good shot of the pass side, because it is not bolted on , when I push it up the gap lines up, but it is real close at the top... will have to find a happy middle ground....

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

Thanks for the pic. I wll check it in the morning. I see your front door is also shy of the rear just like mine. Im not expecting everything to be ridler award winning gaps but pleasing to the eye. CHIZZLER

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

I made another parts run, this time it was from my yard, so it didn't cost anything!
all the windows from the crew were broken or shot out, except for the right rear door.
my "new" front doors were stripped 62/63's , so I had to source parts out of all my 60-61 doors, luckily I had just enough. (62-63 have the tempered non metal frame side glass)
at some point I will need to get a 60-61 glass weather strip kit for all 4 doors...$$$
So, I grabbed 3 or 4 of everything, and got to work putting the doors back together. there were a few broken screws that I had to drill and tap, and then I have been running a tap through all the threads, and keeping them all lubricated so that I can pull it all apart again without any trouble..

I discovered the window mechanism down/stop under the door control on the rear door, it is intertwined around the vent window/window track as well, and I might say quite sloppily done too! The screw was long enough that it had pushed into the window track, so I used a shorter screw when I put it all back together.

sooo lucky that I found the passenger side door stop in the bottom of the passenger door, it fell through the rust hole in the bottom corner when I had it off, and must have been laying down there for years. As you can see it is a bit longer than the front , it shows no signs of being spliced together, so it is either custom made , or sourced off another vehicle.

the door side of the door stop mechanism is pretty crude: looks to have been cut in with a torch, and just left that way.

I was able to unscrew the mirror bracket off the yellow truck. I have another left hand one of these, and the bottom is universal, the top is left/right only, so I am going to try to reverse engineer the top left piece and make a right.
these brackets aren't as aesthetically pleasing as the standard 60-61 bracket, but I like the different rugged look that they have....usually they had a mirror arm that was about 2 feet long, they were used on big trucks and stakes mainly... both of the ones I have came on cab/chassis trucks, so maybe they were standard on them?

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

Wow never realized the 60 hoods are different from 61!would you post pictures for comparison?

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

first pic is the 61, second is the 60... 61 has a sharp defined edge, while the 60 is soft and smooth...

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

got the roof panel today, not much to look at, it is just a flat piece of 20 gauge , we rolled it through a roller, and then spent a couple hours doing some bends on the edges to get the right shape for the drip rail.
the piece is the right size and shape, but it will take some massaging to get it together.
the factory inner headliner holds up the factory roof in the center, the stamping and ribs in it hold it rigid.
since this can't be used in the crew conversion, they formed some bracing to hold up the roof.
the bracing in the yellow cab is a little beat up, the front one is bent from something heavy on the roof, so I might have to figure out how to make a new piece, but for now I will need to use them to support the center of the roof.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

I needed to make the part of the inner headliner that goes in between the doors.
I thought the flanging tool would make it , but the bend is much deeper than that.
So I got out an assortment of metal and made a poor mans metal brake.
first I clamped it with some vise grips in between some angle iron, and then put that in the vise. then I got out the Bfh. and bent a 90 degree bend in it.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

next I got another piece of angle and some square tube that was laying around, and clamped it together with the vise grips. then put the whole piece back in the angle iron/vise and bent it over.
pulled it out and did a little straightening with pliers and a hammer, and done!

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

I'm really enjoying this thread

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

Me too and constantly amazed at all the fab skills .

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

so, yesterday was pulling the old roof off without damaging the structure.. I worked on this for about an hour and a half, and I recommend this for those that are pulling a bad roof skin, and replacing it with another.


this worked for me since I am using the front section of the green roof, as the orange roof somehow had a mouse nest right in the center between the roof and headliner, and both pieces were rusted through!..

first I cut around the perimeter leaving about an inch of the old roof.
next I went over the top and bottom looking for evidence of the spot welds: I was able to run my finger underneath the drip rail, and whenever I felt a divot I would mark it on top, then I looked around the top near my marks, and could see about 75% of the spots.
another method that works is to sand under the drip rail, or brush the paint off with a rotary wire brush to find the spots.

next I grabbed the pliers and started at one end and started wiggling the piece back and forth. as it loosens up you can see the spot sticking as the surrounding metal rips away, as I was able to see the exact locations of the spots I ground a little metal away with the cutoff wheel to make it break apart a little easier. when I got to the corners I cut some vertical cuts so that I wouldn't bend the lower metal.

the middle 2 photos are staged: I didn't take any during the progress:(

then after it was all off I ground off what was left of the spots,, and had to spend some extra time in the corners, since they are kind of double spotted where the little gutter joining clips are welded on, and now have a nice clean unbent surface to work with, most important no holes!

as I was pulling the green skin to use on the front I was trying to save the lower metal, (practicing!) and inadvertently at some point you go too deep with the spot weld cutter, and leave a big hole, or the pilot bit catches and pulls through before you have a chance to stop.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

ok: back to work!:lol:
welded in the inner headliner side panel sections, and got the B pillar upper plates welded back on.

I had to make a template for the front roof support since it was bent down on the passenger side.. I traced the good side, then flipped it and traced it again, then used the vise and knee and about 10 bends and I got it back in shape..

got the inner structure all clamped in.

you can see in the last photo right next to the ear protection the rust holes that I have to fix before I can put the roof skin back on-previous mouse nest location....they look like 2 little black dots... about 8 inches of the metal is very scaly, there are about 5-6 holes, so I am going to try to weld them up, but I might have to just weld in a patch panel if they are too hard to weld up.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

inner structure is in and I set the front skin on to see how the fit is:

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

wow, alot of work going on here, i love it.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

Looking very good.

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

Nice addition Jon, sorry I'm so late to the party, but just caught up on the thread!!!

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

great work

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

I like your method of getting the old roof panel you are replacing off. My question is how'd you go about getting off the "good" donor section your going to use (the green one)? I've got a 61 I need to do this to.

Thanks, Wade

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

The green one I used a spot weld cutter, however if I was to do it again, I would cut the roof off at the posts, and flip it over and drill all the spots from the bottom with the spot weld cutter..., this would give you a nice clean smooth surface to work with , then you could glue, or punch smaller holes and plug weld, or even re-spot weld it- this is if you had 2 roofs to work with...

Re: My 1961 crew cab- XRMYCRU
 

Thanks for the info. Sounds like what we NEED is for the aftermarket folks to start making a lot more sheet metal for the 60-63 era trucks! Anyway, I love the work your doing, keep on keepin on

Wade