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Re: Its Gone!!! hit by a DUI
even if the state says the cop/city is immune from suit id still sue as well as the bar , barkeep and anyone else involved . this may be the case that sets new precidence. its total BS what happened to you. personally id love to take a trip to florida and beat the heck outta the bar tender ,drunk and the cop just because they were all morons.
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WELLLL....after several days of phone tag and chasing down the correct City's Insurance CO. I finally found them, "Lexington INS Co. in Boston, MA 617-330-4062 Susan Bard. 1/11/07 1:40 central Time I spoke with her and she is VERY fimiliar with the case/claim. She has mailed a letter to me(certified) stating that there is NO COVERAGE that the City has that can help me. I need to go after Thomas Fletcher(the drunk), yada, yada, I have heard it all before. The Officer has been punished and it was a judgement call, yada, yada. Thomas Fletcher has pleaded guilty and has to make restution(sp), My home owners has fixed the fence($500 DED) 1 car has been fixed from INS($500 DED), My GMC truck has been fixed $3450 out of my POCKET, The 72 Burb is still in my yard with no INS agreement on it as of yet. She says that I am left to hold the bag....on this one. She has gone through the policy and there is no coverage since it was a judgement call by Officer Cramer and The driver, Thomas Fletcher did the damage. WOW!!!! But if I find anymore info that may turn it in my favor, I can call her and let her know......RIGHT! I guess I can let CNN, FOX and Inside edition know its OK to go ahead with my story. "DUI Friendly Cities across the US" especially when the Cities and States tout ZERO Tolerance for DUI!
Pass it on, THIS SUCKS!!! “ Welcome to Pensacola The DUI Friendly City on the Gulf Coast!” Here is the Chief of Police Reply that made me think they were taking care of this.....RIGHT! Dear Mr. Smith, In reference to your email below, I wanted to advise you I have talked with Tom Mulroy(850-435-1613) with the City of Pensacola's Risk Management Office and he said your claim has been forwarded to the city's insurance carrier. As you are aware, I suspended Officer Cramer for three weeks without pay and mandated he attend remedial training on DUI recognition as a result of this incident. You have been in contact with Lt. Randy Stull, who supervises our Professional Standards Unit, and he has supplied you with a copy of the in-car video since the defendant in this case plead nolo contendre to the DUI charge. If there is any additional information we can provide, please feel free to contact Lt. Stull at 850-435-1865. John W. Mathis Chief of Police Pensacola Police Department 850.435.1855 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is what 1 viewer wrote: Florida's Zero Tolerance for DUI Drivers is not enforced in Pensacola. Welcome to Pensacola "A DUI Friendly City" WEAR-TV, I saw the story that recently aired on WEAR-TV channel 3 about the intoxicated 21 year old who slammed into Mr. Jeff Smith's home just minutes after he had been stopped by the Pensacola Police. http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/searc...1/oXmt8wIE.xml Dash Cam Video: Videos: http://www.weartv.com/players/news/t...vid_1606.shtml http://www.weartv.com/players/news/t...vid_1779.shtml http://www.nbc15online.com/news/loca...5-31522fca1169 Pensacola News Journal article: http://www.pnj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...712140340/1006 http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/searc...1/oXmt8wIE.xml I just can not believe that PPD Officers would let an individual such as this leave the scene of the original stop at the Cabana Lounge in the condition he was in. Firstly, would it not be standard operating procedure for the Police to administer a field sobriety test to any individual who was stopped for recklessly driving his vehicle in a Bar or Tavern parking lot?, especially at the time this incident occurred? Is this a situation any Officer can deviate from? Even if the Officer had another call, unless it was an obviously grave situation, I can not for the life of me, understand why anyone would let a person who wreaked of alcohol drive away in his own vehicle after such a stop under any condition, considering the amount of damage an inebriated individual could do with an automobile, up to and including negligent homicide. Secondly, if there is a 1985 law that protects the City from prosecution caused by the negligence of their employees, why are they punishing the Officer with 3 weeks of unpaid time off? Is he not protected from punishment by this same law? Has any case since 1985 overturned this particular legislation? I know how lawyers like to quote laws and fail to remember that a particular law may have been overturned just to make a person less likely to file a lawsuit. Seems like something is very fishy here. Why are there no laws to require insurance companies to report to Police when a Florida driver cancels his insurance so that when the officer checks that persons information through his dispatch he would know immediately that the individual was not covered by any automobile insurance? I would like to know how we can continue to financially support a Police department that fails to easily expose simple criminals who choose to operate their vehicles in a unlawful manner while those same people that support the Police loose property and lives. I think that Mr. Smith deserves to be compensated for his damages up to what he had prior to this incident. I am ashamed that the City fails to accept responsibility for the decisions made by their Officers. I visited the site and noticed that a speed bump was in the road by Jeff's house where the drunk lost control was probably another fact that should be considered as a contributing factor in this incident. How does Mr. Smith or anyone else in this community recover from an incident such as this when no one is held responsible for their actions? The City should be held accountable so changes in their own policies can be taken seriously by the City Council. Maybe the Governors office could shed some light on this situation as it pertains to accountability. Thank you for reporting stories such as these as I know that political pressure can sometimes come to bear on your station for this type of story. The "little guy" needs you. Please follow up on this story and keep the public informed. Sincerely, Jeff Cram Ensley, FL |
Re: Its Gone!!! hit by a DUI
I'll call the chief to voice my complaint
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this post is on the main page of the site as well now |
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Jeff, Man this does suck! I'd say let the newsmedia know and maybe some one can help. Here in Memphis, all of our news stations have reporters that investigate things for viewers. People get in touch with them about how they've been wronged or ripped off, and these people get a camera shoved in their face while they explain what happened.... I'd also say let the national news people know what's happened to you. You've had to pay out of your pocket for being asleep at your house, while other people have done wrong! I'm at a loss for what else to do.......Good luck
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I have let the News Media know the update from when they came out 1st. I have also forwared this story on to CNN, FOX and Inside Edition. So we will see what they will do, maybe on a slow news day they will run my stuff. I have tried to keep it current with the links and news articles so it will be easy to verify when they look it it. |
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called and talked to Lt. Stull. Very professional, but gave me the Risk Management is responsible not the police department bit. He's right, but I told him I wanted to voice my disgust over the way it's being handled.
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I have had nothing but GREAT support from this board thanks so much!!!!! |
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Something stupid I should have though of earlier. Shouldn't your liability ins. on the burb cover the damage on the GMC since the van hit it then the burb hit the GMC just thinking of some way to help you.
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thanks for the thought |
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You should have hired an attorney from the beginning. Do not try to haggle with Insurance companies or city. Let the attorney do the work for you.
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Well here is the letter from the City's INS and my email to them:
Suzanne Bard: I received your letter(pic attached) letting me know that: since you "do not insure the person responsible for the damages, Mr. Fletcher, you will not be able to assist me in this matter." Please understand this claim is NOT with Mr. Fletcher. This claim is with the City of Pensacola Police Dept. & Officer J. Cramer of which you do insure. Officer Cramer is the person responsible for the damages to my property(see video link) and has been reprimanded by City of Pensacola Police Chief John W. Mathis(Email reply below). I am sure this was an oversight. Since I wish to pursue this matter further and have info which will assist in changing your position with respect to liability. Please review info below. Dash Cam Video: J Smith Police Video Pensacola News Journal article: http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/...WS01/712140340 Pics the night of the accident: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=2461768 News Channel 15: (PENSACOLA, Fla.) Nov. 24 -- It was one of the first SUV's ever made, a 72' Chevy Suburban, and it was Jeff Smith's pride and joy. 400 restoration hours and $15,000 went into his baby, but it only took seconds for Smith's prized possession to become junk. The Florida Highway Patrol says a drunk driver was to blame, and it's an accident Smith believes should never have happened. "He hit the Suburban first. He pushed it into the other one. Basically sandwiched it like an Oreo." A Pensacola Police officer had stopped the driver, 21-year-old Thomas Fletcher, earlier Saturday morning. Assistant Chief Chip Simmons says Fletcher was caught spinning wheelies in a parking lot. "We did cite him for careless driving and then he was allowed to leave." The Florida Highway Patrol says, however, the careless driving continued. Just 16 minutes and 1.8-miles later, authorities say Fletcher drove his van through Jeff Smith's yard, destroying a fence, damaging a car and truck, and you've already been told what happened to the Chevy. "I forgive him, but I'm upset, mostly with the Pensacola Police Department. It didn't need to happen cause they pulled him over, and let him go," Smith complained. "We're looking back at the actual stop to see if there were some warning signs that we didn't pick up on," says Asst. Chief Simmons. In the end, Florida's Highway Patrol arrested Fletcher and charged him with driving under the influence. As for the '72 Chevy Suburban, it's a total loss, but Smith says he's holding onto his former prize because of its sentimental value. ---------------------------------------------------- Dear Mr. Smith, In reference to your email below, I wanted to advise you I have talked with Tom Mulroy(850-435-1613) with the City of Pensacola's Risk Management Office and he said your claim has been forwarded to the city's insurance carrier. As you are aware, I suspended Officer Cramer for three weeks without pay and mandated he attend remedial training on DUI recognition as a result of this incident. You have been in contact with Lt. Randy Stull, who supervises our Professional Standards Unit, and he has supplied you with a copy of the in-car video since the defendant in this case plead nolo contendre to the DUI charge. If there is any additional information we can provide, please feel free to contact Lt. Stull at 850-435-1865. John W. Mathis Chief of Police Pensacola Police Department 850.435.1855 __________________________________________________ damages: Listed below are the damage costs as a result of Pensacola Police Dept. Officer J.Cramer on 11/24/07 2:40am $ 3450.73 1998 GMC truck $ 660.73 2004 Hyundai Sonata (INS paid 1875.37) $14000.00 1972 Chevy Suburban $ 500.00 Fence & Driveway (INS paid $1900) $ 870.80 7 days work 4 182.74 garage Door repair ----------------------------- $19,665.00 Total Out of my Pocket Jeffrey Smith 3519 Gatewood Drive Pensacola, FL 32514 850-475-5030 |
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I read some of this thread, and I'm saddened to think you may be left holding the bag on some of these damages. I have a story to tell you:
Back in 2002 my parents neighbor decided he didn't like the fact that they had a tree farm next to their property blocking their view of Mt. Rainier. My parents converted their cattle farm to trees and open land starting in 1990 before these people ever built their house. It took a few years to plan, till and cultivate those trees - replacing dead ones, building fence, picking up rocks and sod - fertilizing, weeding. Back breaking work. Now the trees are over 15ft tall. Without asking my parents for permission they hired some knucklehead with a chainsaw and a 7ft orchard ladder to jump the fence and destroy over 150 beautiful trees, and drag the tops he cut down over onto their property and burn them in a huge pile. After getting over the shock my parents tried the "neighborly" approach - calling them up to ask that they at least acknowledge what they had done, etc...then after several weeks of stewing about it with no apology or any type of indication the neighbors were going to try and rectify the situation my parents got wise and hired experts to determine the extent of the damages and get an estimate, and sought out the services of an attorney. They sent an official letter explaining what an injustice had been done to their private property, and had estimates on all of the damages (over $200k worth). They informed them that if they didn't extend some kind of compensation for the damages they would file suit. Of course they didn't respond. Instead they decided to make my parents' lives a living hell instead. My parents filed suit in 2004. What followed problems with the county (they called the county and reported my parents had built structures that weren't up to code, etc., since 1987), battles with animal control (they informed them that my parents had "wild and out of control dogs"). They suffered through all of the problems being victimized by their neighbors while work on the lawsuit continued. They didn't give up. In April of 2006 my parents won their case against their neighbors - who had turned the claim over to State Farm Insurance, and refused to settle. After a lot of paperwork, and a possible appeal that never happened State Farm finally wrote my parents a check for over $250,000 this last fall (2007). Just to put things in perspective: 1. Beginning to end it took 5 1/2 years. 2. Attorneys fees were a huge chunk of the money. 3. The man who actually cut the trees down (hired my my parents' neighbors) actually died of natural causes during that time and couldn't be brought in to testify during the trial. 4. Out of pocket it cost my parents 10's of thousands of dollars before they even went to trial. 5. My parents suffered from health problems as a result. If you don't have an attorney get one now, and discuss your options. If you're thinking about suing the city remember that in the beginning it's going to probably cost you a lot more than your $19k, and there's no guarantee you're going to get anything in return. State, county and city government conveniently have laws on the books protecting themselves from things like this, and that's no accident. Ultimately they see lawsuits from private citizens as a negative impact on the people they govern to pay out every time a government official screws up (otherwise they would probably not have any money EVER in their budget). Most importantly if you're going to push this DO IT RIGHT. Don't get emotionally wrapped up in this, and get yourself into thinking that if you just keep pleading your case to everyone who will listen that at some point someone will bend and you'll get your compensation. It won't happen that way, because it's not about right and wrong, or how passionate you are about telling people about what happened. It's about who's liable, and how the law applies. A lot of the time it's not fair at all. So, you have to think hard about how much of your life is going to be spent dealing with this problem. You could turn around and find out you've been fighting this for 5 years with nothing but bad health, debt, anger and a lot of frustration to show for it. I'm not saying don't fight, but be realistic about how hard you want to fight and for how long. I hope all of the parties involved either get what they have coming to them, or do the right thing and take care of the people who did nothing wrong... Good luck. |
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I hope all of the parties involved either get what they have coming to them, or do the right thing and take care of the people who did nothing wrong...
Good luck.[/QUOTE] thank you so much, and well said. I can see it will happen that way if I keep going. once again, thanks Jeff |
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.."courts have without exception concluded that when a municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish police services, it assumes a duty only to the public at large and not to individual members of the community." The bottom line is that the police assume NO RESPONSIBILITY or LIABILITY for an individuals well being. The topic comes up regularly in gun rights discussions when the subject is taking weapons out of private hands and assuming the police will take care of everything. An attorney that takes your money to file such a case against the police is a thief or not too smart. My advice is to get a judgement against the driver right away. Tax refund season is just around the corner, you never know, maybe he has something coming that you could get. Good luck |
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Unfortunately, I've never heard of anyone who has been the victim of a drunk driver getting anything but trouble. The drunk driver doesn't get punished and the victim has to deal with it.
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Here are the brutal facts as I see them:
* Your insurance has covered all they will cover * The city/police evidently won't cover anything * The City's insurance company won't cover anything * The person responsible is the Drunk driver Now if you had a high priced lawyer they would most likely name everyone possible in the lawsuit in hopes those with money will settle, this includes the City, Driver, Bar, Bartender. What I recommend doing is filing suit yourself against the driver in your local court. Based on the information you have provided I'll guess he doesn't have the money to hire an attorney, try to use that to your advantage. Compile a list of your losses, including deductibles and your time. Include things like depreciation to your vehicles because of the repairs that were done. Create a list of enough expenses to bump up the dollar amount as high as possible. What you need to do is a little research on what court in your area you can file suit in. What I am hoping is that you could file a lawsuit against the driver, with the videos/photos/police report it will be hard for him to have any defense....what you are hoping for is he won't fight it or will self defend and you can get a judgement. Then contact a collections agent/agency and turn the total over to them for collections. It might take a long time, and he could claim bankruptcy, but otherwise this is the only way you'll ever see any money. |
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You might want to get Mothers Against Drunk Drivers involved. I doubt they can get your money back but around here they have a lot of influence with the Press and police dept.
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Jeff,
just an fyi, I had a truck stolen from me twice! 2nd time, they caught them, they got probation, and supposed to pay restitution, anyway, these clowns violated probation, got put away for 6 months or a year, and ended up not paying restitution. Not a thing I could do about it. It was kind of crazy. Good luck! |
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I am finding the same thing out. I think in my NEXT life(Doh!) I will be a criminal.......it will be cheaper......... Thanks |
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OK...here is what I would do.
go to www.jurisdictionary.com and learn how to do it yourself. File the cause of action, motion the court to do a lot and hopefully one of them will pay. Most want to settle rather than hassle with a lawsuit...and you can motion the court to excuse them. Find out who owns the van, sold him the liquor and let him drive, name the hot chicks he was showing off in front of just cause you can. Use the legal therories of expanded and extended laibility to find the deep pockets...even if it Anhauser Busch. I would also keep hassling the insurance companies and elevate your claim. They always sao NO right away to anything that looks expensive. Move your home 1/4 mile off the road with a winding driveway and lots of trees. I am so sad to see that burb hurt. |
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Just got word form my INS and they have come up with a new value for the Burb $9640. So I said finally! They are calling today to finish the claim
about time |
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Yee haw...that will at least help on your next project.
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Congrats on at least SOME good news.
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I would demand that money, AND keeping the old truck. You said it was worth about 15K right?
I would also keep beating on the city, but instead of trying to get fundage, just try to get that law reversed... maybe enough funds to cover your expenses on the legal stuff and to cover your deductables on all your claims. |
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however... this is still AWESOME news!
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It's great to hear your insurance is coming up with some $ for you. It's not nearly enough but it will help. The thing that burns me up is your insurance shouldn't have to be paying out on this claim. It should be the city and the van driver. Knowing the driver most likely don't have any money or own anything of value at best you could win a judgement against him and stand to collect something. The city and the club on the other hand need to be held liable here also.
In the end you may elect to take what your insurance company gives you and absorb the rest of the loss and count yourself lucky and feel the trouble of pressing the city just isn't worth it. Your call. It's just the principal of this whole deal that burns me up. That "sovereign immunity" label they are hiding behind just sucks! It's a legal manuever to protect the city government and funds even when a city employee or department clearly has made mistakes affecting a tax paying citizen of that city. They think they have made themselves untouchable. Looking at the possibilities even further, what if he had run over and killed or mamed someone or used a gun to kill someone? The officer had the opportunity to prevent this from happening and did not. Would the police dept or city still not be liable to some degree? That falls under the "Protect" part of "Protect and Serve" committment. Further back in these posts someone said the pd is liable for the people of the community but not to any individual person or property. Aren't these one in the same? " To Protect and Serve" don't mean all that much in situations like this one, does it? The chief said they were able to keep this officer since he had high marks in training. Fresh out of cop school the laws and what to look for during a stop should come easy to him so he should not have made this mistake and let the guy off and allowed to drive on. I feel bad for the officer being the one but if he is going to make these kinds of mistakes right out of school he is not the right guy for the job. He has to go. The officer gave this guy a break and you are having to pay for it. Unbelievable! I hope this story is remaining in the news down in your area as an ongoing ordeal with the city. This is wrong and everyone needs to know. |
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I would also file in small claims court against all of the involved parties.Use each vehicle as a seperate claim and the fence eetc. also.Since there is a limit to the amount of such claims I would suggest you keep them under that limit but file everything you can think of and some that are suggested by others.Any that don't come close to that limit ask for "Pain and suffering".Make them spend so much time in court dealing with it that it would be better and cheaper to pay. Just another thought if you need to find more of the $$$ you are out.
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any updates?
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yes, alittle update.....
My INS said I can buy it back for $225, SO>>>I said YES SIR!. They are waiting to get the title re-issued as a salvage title then they will send the $$ to me, minus the $500 DED & $225 Buy back. I have not decided to part out or find a 72 rolling chassis(Truck) and swap stuff over. I had not heard from the City INS, so I sent them an email, and next day they sent this reply.......WOW! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mr. Smith, Due to the complexity of this matter, many levels of personnel here are involved. Please be patient. I'll contact you as soon as I have ANY news for you. Thank you. Sue Bard Claims Examiner Miscellaneous Professional Liability 617-330-4062 866-402-4215 (fax) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Smith MVP [mailto:mvpco@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 2:53 PM To: Jeffrey Smith MVP; suzanne.bard@aig.com; John Mathis; John Fogg; Subject: Re: City of Pensacola Police Blunder claim # 030-252080 Lexinton INS Letter Suzanne Bard: I have not heard from you since I sent the email below. I would like an update please Jeff Smith 850-475-5030 --- Jeffrey Smith MVP <mvpco@yahoo.com> wrote: > Suzanne Bard: > > I received your letter(pic attached) letting me know > that: since you "do not insure the person > responsible > for the damages, Mr. Fletcher, you will not be able > to > assist me in this matter." ----------------------------------Snip---------------------------------- So maybe something might happen .....OR NOT!! I am not holding my breath. |
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Ha!
That means you found a loophole and now they are scrambling... Good luck! I have been following this thread since it appeared on the main page and even though I don't post on this end much I wanted to wish you luck in getting this settled. Keep the news stations updated too. Whatever happened to the drunkard? Can you take him to court and put a lein on his funds/paycheck/house/whatever to recoup some money? |
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Jeff, I just read this tread and feel for your loss. In April of 93' I unknowingly walked in on a burglary in my home. I was shot, 7 hits with a 9mm, and left for dead by the intruders. The culprits were caught and sentenced. There were three of them but only one shooter. Two of them were 17 and the third, the shooter, was 21. The two 17year olds were sentenced to 15 years and the 21 year old shooter was sentenced to 42 years all with no possibility of parole. I was 36 years old at the time. The two younger boys were release last year 2007. One in April and one in Oct. Part of the courts requirements was the offenders pay restitution. I was out of work for a year with hospital and doctor bills in the hundreds of thousands. I did have insurance and they payed in full. In Dec. 2007 I had two surgery's both related to the gun shot wounds I took during the burglary. Here it is fifteen years later and I am still dealing with this issue. This incident has cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars out of pocket and will continue to cost me the rest of my life. I have not seen a dime nor do I expect to. It is a terrible injustice. The criminals have all the rights and no responsibilities...
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WOW! I am glad you are still with us. You are right, Criminals have all the rights. I am still amazed that this is 2008 and this sh** happens. I feel it is cut and dry...but thats just to easy to think that.
Good luck and hope things get more comfortable THANKS!!!! |
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502Tripower,that story makes the hair on my arms stand up. Im glad your here to tell the tale as un-ruly as it is. Things in this society need to change is a bad bad way.
mvpco,I am glad your getting this ironed out. I know it doesnt seem possible but in the right hands your truck could be fixed......Ive seen alot worse and with the right amount of time and resources I would look into rebuilding myself as tough as it may seem. |
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Really sorry to see that. This just happened to my cousin last year. I hope you come out better than he did. He got screwed bad! Good luck.
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I would be calling Mrs. Baird and asking for a rental car.At the price of a rental it would up the cost considerably over a couple weeks.Usually getting in their pocket speeds things up ;)
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the rental has to be a big SUV too... like the one that got totaled.
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quote: My INS said I can buy it back for $225, SO>>>I said YES SIR!.
They are waiting to get the title re-issued as a salvage title then they will send the $$ to me, minus the $500 DED & $225 Buy back. I have not decided to part out or find a 72 rolling chassis(Truck) and swap stuff over. So now the truck will have a "salvage" title. Even if you rebuilt it that stamp will remain? It does in some states. In others the vehicle has to be inspected after repair to get a new clean title. At least that was the case a few years ago. |
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