Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

More Pics....

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Dale, Your truck is one of my favorites on site.

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Thanks Mike, I'm still waiting for those pics of your fine ride.;)

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

I've been busy lately trying to sort out my disappointment with my engine. I thought part of the problem was I had a Turbo 350 trans with a 3.08 rear end. So....I had a 700R4 with a 3.73 posi rear end installed. It did help quite a bit over the T-350/3.08 set up. However, My GM ZZ4 350 crate engine did'nt feel like it had the acceleration I thought an engine rated at 355 HP/ 405 ft/lb. of torque should have. After Tuning the carb and Timing. I still do not feel this engine is putting out the performance numbers that GM says it does.

Last week I took the truck to a guy who is considered one of the best small block engine builders in the Houston area. I asked him to drive the truck and tell me what he thought. He told me after the test drive that he would be surprised if my ZZ4 was putting out 300 HP. He said the engine ran good and smooth but did not have much power. He went on to say that this was not the first ZZ4 that he had looked at due to the owner not being happy with the power output. He said the cam is lazy, the L98 aluminum heads were junk compared to what is offered today. Also, the 750 cheap Holley carb is to big for the engine combination. He also went on to say the engine would run for 150,000 mi. with no problem. I did buy a GM engine for reliabilty but I also expected it to live up to the posted power claims. Apparently this engine is missing the mark by 50 or so horsepower. I then ask for advice on what to do to the ZZ4 to add some performance. He said if I just wanted to get my 50 HP back, A Cam, intake manifold and carb change was in order. If I really wanted to make it run, junk everything but the basic block and buy a Edelbrock E-Tec topend kit and forged steel 383 Stoker crankshaft kit. This will jump the power up to around 450 to 470 HP.

Not sure what I am going to do here, I could just live with it the way it is.
On the other hand, its only money!!......;);)

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Try simply changing to a lower 570-600 CFM carb and see what difference that can make. What torque converter are you running with the 700R4? Stock stall or a higher stall speed? That will make a big difference on off the line acceleration and parasitic drivetrain loss eats up a lot of the HP when you have an automatic anyways. I know what you mean though. I built a 350 to the ZZ4 specs back several years ago and put it in my 80Z28 and was never satisfied with its' performance.

I have heard several positive reviews of the edelbrock package.....but there are other nice options out there as well. Look over the posts on the racing and high performance forum on here for more engine combo's with some real world power numbers in these trucks and dyno slips...

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

I'm running an 2200 stall converter. yeah....I have been reserching Comp cams ZZ4 stage 4 package and the AFR top end kit.

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Ok, I now have a 383 cu. in. motor. I did go with a all forged crank, rods and pistons. I have the Edelbrock Etec 170 heads, Air Gap RPM manifold, # 2204
Roller cam with Lounati roller rockers topped off with a Quick fuels 680 CFM
carb with vacuum secondaries and Hooker full length Headers. Dyno'ed at 453 HP/442 FT/LB torque.

It does have a lumpy idle, however not too bad. Throttle responce is good.
Don't know about the fuel miledge yet, I suspect not very good. Oh well, its a lot of fun to drive.;);)

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Sounds like a sweet little small block.
Did you start with a completely different engine?
Or is the re-worked ZZ4 that you originally put in it?

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Keith,
Its the ZZ4 re-worked. However, the only thing left of the ZZ4 other than the accessory drive system is the ZZ4 block. Looking back on it, I probally should have built a all new long block. However this build kind of grew in scope as my engine builder got into the build. One suggestion led to another until this is the build I wound up with. Not the most cost efficent way to build a engine. Maybe I'll build a second engine of whats left of the ZZ4.

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Wow nice engine Dale, would love to hear a sound clip of it

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

x2 lets hear a sound clip

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Nice motor Dale, You must be rich. Give us a burnout video.

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

looks great!

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Dale,

Your truck is perfect in everyway. I have a 1970 Chevy C10, and you have already done everything I want to do to mine. I have been wanting the summit racing legend 6 wheels, but I didn't know the back spacing or look until I saw your truck. They are now sitting in my garage. I need to keep in touch with you because we think the same.

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Glad you like the wheels, thanks for the comments on my truck. It has been a lot of fun going thru this experience the last year. All my choices went reasonably well except for a few hiccups along the way.

I hope you start a build thread for your truck to keep up with your progress.
What wheel spacing did you get?

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

So,... what's next Dale? :lol:

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Hi Nate! I could ask you the same question. ;)

Right now, I have a major problem with the new engine I so proudly annouced in the above post last week. You can go to the High performance thread to get the low down on whats going on:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=429329

Basically, The engine builders have the Static Compression too high. The engine is pinging on 93 octane pump gas. Oh well, its something else to deal with.

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

I went with the 4.5 backspacing for the front and rear. I think yours turned out perfect so I wanted to keep it the same. You mentioned something about putting a spacer on the rear and I was wondering where you got it? If you could give me a part # and mfg that would be great. I will post my build thread this spring when I pull it out of storage and get busy.

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

The only ones I could find thick enough is 30 mm thick spacers, 6x139.7mm with 12mm lugs. This fits just fine however you will have 7/16 in. lug nuts in the front and 12mm lug nuts in the rear. Here's the link:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EIB-908300041/

Oh....the picture isn't right on the Summit page. Actually the 6 12mm lugs are attached to the spacer recessed from the back.
The spacer is bolted to the original 7/16" hub lugs. So....there are 12 holes in the spacer.

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Nothing new to report, just wanted my thread to appear again.

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Oh man,... I thought there was an update. .

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

:lol:....me too!!!

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Sorry Keith and Geoff, Did not mean to trick you.....

I have done some updates to the truck, I had it rewired with a Painless
wiring harness. Other than that , I have been taking care of a few bugs
that were left on the "To-Do List" from the initial build such as finding and fixing a bad rattle coming from the passenger side floor board. Turned out to be the new Hooker full length headers hitting the frame. I fixed that. The truck now has about 4ooo miles on it now, the engine/drivetrain is smoothing out very nicely. I have been driving it to work a couple of days a week. I am pretty happy with the truck.;);)

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Well, I'm having the engine worked on again. I was not happy with the original ZZ4 350. The engine ran on 93 octane only with the CR of 10:1. It did not idle very well for a fairly mild engine and its off idle street manors were not very good. On top of that, no way the engine put out the 355 HP that GM claims. Well I then went wild and had the ZZ4 stroked to a 383 ci.
with AFR 180 Heads, Comp Cams HR269H cam, Edelbrock RPM AirGap manifold and topped off with a Quick Fuels 680 Holly type carb w/ full headers and magnaflow mufflers. I have put about 3000 mile on this set up in the last eight months. The engine is pretty good. Puts out about 420 HP/ 430FT/LB
of torque. The low speed off idle responce has improved from the ZZ4, however the MPG is still pretty bad at about 9 mpg if I take it easy.

I thought I wanted this kind of engine, a real hot rod, however I have found I do not really want to live with this engine on a daily basis. So..... I am backing down the cam and carb specs. I am having Bumbera's performance install a milder Comp offroad cam that Comp tells me will improve the low end responce and torque and smooth out the idle with very good gas miledge over what I have now. I also am changing the carb from the QF Holly to a Sean Murphy built Quadrajet. I have read and talked to a lot of people about the Quadrajet. I've heard everything from the "Best Street Carb ever made" to the quadrajet refered to as "quadraJunk". My Engine man (Kenny Bumbera) says If built and tuned properly they are a very good street carb. The idea is the small primaries give you excellent off idle response and good gas miledge. And the huge secondaries give you decent power if you want it. I hope this will accomplish what I am trying to get too. I want an engine that has good low speed and idle manors with decent MPG. Yet will produce decent power.
I know I should not care about gas miledge on a vehicle I will drive only 3 to 4 thousand miles a year. But for some reason it bothers me I am only getting 8 to 9 MPG. I will post the verdict after I get a few miles on this set up.;)


Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Good luck with the changes to the motor, hope everything works out the way you want it to. Is that a Endurashine Manifold, very nice.

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

The description of the engine you want sounds alot like a 5.3 or 6.0 LS swap.
I know you have a ton of money in your current set-up,... but it might be something to think about.
I would love to have an LS engine in one of my trucks,... but I don't know enough about the swap.

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Keith,
You are right, if I had it to do over again, I would go to a LS swap. maybe in the future.

G4L,
Yes. that is a performer air-gap endurashine.

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Good to hear from you Dale... even if it is due to your continued longing for the right motor. :)

Best of luck on the engine search and like Keith... I would love to do an LS swap in a future project. Can't wait to see what else you have in store for your truck.

Anything else new? Did you hit/win a few shows this summer?

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Good hearing from you Nate, I see that you have been busy with your extended family...Oh congrats again on your LMC cover, very cool.

Yeah, I'm determined to develope the engine manors that I want.
I also am going to install a wood bed, I'll Post pics. The only other thing I'm working on is the windshield and back glass with the SS trim. What a mess getting that done was. After two installers who destroyed 3 windshield gaskets and one set of new trim, both windows w/trim are in the truck. However the top of the gasket on the windshield is laid back on the inside of the cab. Leaks like a sieve. big time wind noise. Getting someone that knows what they are doing is hard to come by. So....I need to sort that issue out.

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Look what I got for Christmas!!! A Bruce Horkey Show Deck. It went together pretty easy.;);)

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

More Show Deck Pics.

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

VERY nice!

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

:agree: That looks great!

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

How's the engine doing for you now since the changes...and did you get the gasket issue solved?

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Love the new Horkey floor; nice addition!

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Wow I really like that wood floor.......One more thing to add to my list....Everytime I check on someones project I end up spending more $$$$ lol

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Thanks,
I read thru you build thread, very nice truck!

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Well, I said Good-Bye to the Green Monster sunday. A very nice couple from Pensacola, Fl. bought the truck. I'm sure they will give it a good home.

I would like to thank Nate and Keith and everyone on this board. a lot of
people gave me advice and support during this build. It was a lot of fun.;)

I am moving into a new house, and the wife insisted her car has a place in the new garage. I considered dumping her (the wife) but thought better of it!

Dale

Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

What?
After all the hard work?

Congrats on the new house.
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Re: 1969 GMC Short Fleet Build
 

Hello everyone. My name is Kevin and i am the one who bought this truck. I must say that pics dont do it justice. The truck is great and I really appreciate all the time and work he put into it. Thanks again. I will keep you posted on any new pics