Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Well, I am using the stock TBI lines from the tank to the TBI fuel filter location. From the filter to the fuel rail I am using Workhorse Custom Chassis 8.1L RV chassis fuel lines with concoction of a Dorman fuel line repair kit to connect the WCC lines to the fuel filter. There are lots of ways to set up fuel lines for these type engine swaps and most are pretty good.

Fuel lines...
Return: W0000540
Supply: W0000539

Those lines can be purchased from any Workhorse dealer as they are a Workhorse exclusive, not a common GM part

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Thanks for the info, Larry. I thought there might be a plug and play solution, but I'm sure I can come up with something. I might try to find those workhorse parts, or come up with something else. I'll have to do some more looking into it.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

http://workhorse.navistar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=197

The state lookup feature is broken, but if you put in your zip code it should bring up a dealer near you or at least in your state.

Keep in mind since the product got axed in 2010 dealers have been dropping off as the warranty work is done. The only thing left is a small amount of repair work and parts ordering.

I work at a dealer that still has access to Workhorse parts so if nobody local to you is still doing it we can order, you'll just have to deal with the shipping charges.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Actually, 2012…. I was there watching the doors close :whine:. You’re close though as the 8.1L stopped production in 10 where we built the last 8.1L chassis up through summer 11. The new Workhorse Group is nothing more than a Press Release generating investor money eating machine with pipe dreams of drones and electric pickups... they haven't built a thing and probably never will. The sole of the 8.1L lives on in the form of a 8.8L in the Navistar IC Bus though :)

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

That would be the TR4050. The AWD version is available from Rockland Standard Gear.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry,
What clutch release bearing did you use in the suburban and the truck? After all these years I'm finally putting the nv4500 into Big Ugly, and it seems like I have very little clearance between the backside of the clutch fork arm and the opening in the side of the bellhousing. I'm wondering if you used a "taller" or longer bearing than I. I'm using National bearing number 614018.

Thanks.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Yep, I am using the same release bearing. Pretty much the common GM release bearing prior to them moving to integrated release bearing/slave cylinder assemblies.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

What brand of fender flares do you have there

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Warn 4XFlares. Unfortunately, they are extinct now. They stopped making them a year or so ago. Same with Xenon, they stopped too and were hoping to sell the dies to someone like LMC. Bushwacker is the last game in town for flares for square bodys

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Looking for an 8.1 to put in my 87 suburban, found a 2003 engine but its set up to run propane and comes with a wiring harness and the ecm. The guy wants 800 bucks for it. How big of a problem would it be to convert it back to gasoline?
Love your build by the way!!

Thanks,
Mike

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Thanks!

Propane engines are good ones to get as they are CLEAN! If you ever rip it down the valves and pistons will look like brand new. If the engine came out of a Schwann’s truck all you need is a gasoline fuel rail and injectors and you’re ready for gasoline action. On the other hand, if this was a gen set or well pump engine it could need an entire intake. I’d find out what the engine came out of before I jumped on it.

As far as the harness goes, I am not in favor of reworking original harnesses. They just are not worth the hassle. The best money you can put towards one of these swaps is starting with a new, clean stand alone harness from Howell or one of the many other vendors that make harnesses.

This thread should help you along…

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I decided to buy it, didnt want the 6 hour drive to be a total waste. Here is a link to pics of it.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post8253226

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Congrats! That is a great score! Definitely a GM Medium Duty truck engine with about 99% chance it came out of a Schwann’s Foods truck. Those are easily converted back to gasoline with a fuel rail and set of injectors. Ironically, you can buy complete take-off fuel rails and injectors on Ebay from that were taken off Schwann’s engines back when they were new and converted to propane. The only downside is those rails are returnless. New return type fuel rails can be purchased too but they are pretty pricy. The injectors are the same on returnless and return type fuel rails. I bought one of those Schwann’s take off rails and move the injectors over to a new returnless rail when I did the 8.1L in my Burb. I probably have a few returnless rails laying here as I don’t like returnless systems and always remove them and replace them with return type. Its much easier to control fuel pressure with a return type fuel system.

Obviously, the ECM will need to be reflashed but it would need reflashed regardless. Personally, I would sell the harness, get a new Howell harness and use your ECM as a core for a fresh Howell ECM. There are many choices other than Howell as well.

Have fun!

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry, what kind of mileage do you get with the suburban both empty and towing your camper? Best and worst mpg?

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

That is everybody’s favorite question. The Suburban pulls 12/13 most of the time and about 10/11 MPG with the travel trailer behind it. This is about 1 to 1.5 better MPG than it did with the old gutless 5.7L. More power and better fuel economy as the 8.1L isn’t working its tail off to move this big ole rig. Now the K10 with the 8.1L gets lower fuel economy due to its weight and aerodynamics with the camper on top. That one gets 10/11 and probably single digits flying down the Interstate at 85 MPH.

My stock Silverado with an 8.1L always did the worse in fuel economy but I recently had the ECM retuned but have not checked fuel economy yet but I can already tell it is up there with the Suburban if not even greater. What kills fuel economy with an 8.1L is an automatic trans, especially an Allison. If you can run a manual and shift them at low RPM’s like a diesel is the key to getting decent economy out of them. All of my 8.1Ls have manuals behind them.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Thanks for the info. So if you had to choose between automatics, allison or 4l80e?

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

If you must have an Automatic, 4L80E would be the best. NV4500 manual is my preference

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

What's the difference from the 4L80e and the 4L85e (that is suppose to be in my 8.1L Yukon XL)?

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Well, I'll chime in here a little bit. I think Larry is extremely patient with all the questions that he answers because this is the build thread for his Suburban. The questions at least have to do with work he's done on his Suburban. I think the question above can be answered by a Google search. I would recommend that.

Larry this is the second time I've read through this entire thread. So cool! The first time was to gather information and see how you work. The second time is because I acquired a Suburban. I hope you continue to enjoy the heck out of it.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

well said.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Yes, indeed! I’ve come so accustom to threads getting derailed I’ve almost come immune to it. :lol: Glad you’ve enjoyed the thread. Been a long time since I’ve had time to write much on the trucks lately between a little human and demanding job.

:metal:

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

How often do guys ask you to sell it?

Asking for a friend. :D

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Quite a bit on Instagram. Every few months I'd say. Tell your friend it is not for sale. ;)

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Blowing the trail dust off this thread...
Larry, did you have driveline problems/vibes when you went to shackle flip?
Have to drop t-case etc?
I just got the all legos from ORD for my 90 Sub..
I've read it can be right on the money and out when loaded with as little as a fun tank...
Im only running 33s on a 9.5 but rest of suspension is pretty much what you did.
Thanks in advance!

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

You been spying on me on Instagram? :lol: Ya, mine has had driveline vibrations forever but it wasn’t due to the shackle flip. My angles turned out pretty close to perfect after the flip but I’ve had issues where my rear shaft likes to wipe out seals and slip yoke bushings. I never put a gauge on it, but I’m pretty sure the outputs shaft was bent as I’ve seen that before on other 241s. In fact, I’m in process now of having a fresh driveshaft made as I did an ORD slip yoke eliminator on it last week. I should get the shaft back sometime later this week. And, no….. I am not doing a CV on the rear driveshaft like so many others are doing these days. I know adding CVs to the rear shaft is getting popular these days, and it makes perfect sense in something short like a Jeep or maybe even a Blazer, but I have reservations about adding a high maintenance item like a CV to a rear shaft of a heavy rig when a front CV needs attention ever few years when they don’t even get used all that often. Pretty sure there is a reason CVs were never installed on a rear shaft from the factory

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...07d17904_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...93fd1b44_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...30fc5882_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7df73ca4_c.jpg

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

You have my attention...I love your forum content and vehicles, can I follow?

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Sure, why not :lol:

bigassgas8.1 is my IG handle

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Instagram? Are you mad? I can barely work email...haha
That's good to hear on shackle flip. Never built a Sub for keeping but given current status of things, middle of no where sounds about right and this one was as close to free as you can get.
Now with the little girl, pandemic adopted dog, wife plus camping junk, Blazers are just too small plus I like the "I'm off roading in my lazy boy" that Sub seat gives me.
Your squirt must be must be huge by now. Mines 8 and she knows EVERYTHING including how to read wrench/socket sizes. Finally handy to have around now.
I'm joking...;)She loves helping me fix stuff that isn't broken.

I like the rotor t-case balancer holder upper. Smart...like Homer smart.
And sure looks pretty in there. I like clean a underneath.
Ive got the JB SYE kit going in but like you no need for CV on this length of DS. Flange yoke, slip joint and go. I am stuffing a 1" zero rate to bring rear up more than front for gear, gas etc.
Every lifted 208/241 with slip tailshafts killed seals. Never a bent one, just the angle stress wiped them out. 5-8k miles all I ever got out of them before making a mess on the drive.
I'll let you know how it goes and glad to see you still respond. You're a good egg.
Thanks!

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Ha! IG is quick and easy, which is about all I have time for anymore. My days of playing on forums has been whittled down to practically nil outside of a few entries into CK5 a month.

:lol: sounds like as good reasons to grow into a Suburban than any! Kids, dogs, camping! Blazers get small quick!

Ya, mine is getting big as well. Its absolutely amazing to watch her grow from an infant to now a 2nd grader that is much smatter than I ever was at that age. It’s amazing what they learn these days and how she speaks like a little adult. She loves to hang out with me in the garage and play with tools, look at parts, ask how things work, etc. In fact, when I bolting the transmission back in the Suburban she helped run the DeWalt driver to screw the shifter boot down while I held a wrench below. She also helped bleed the clutch. She is becoming a little shop rat and photo bomber!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...33a42023_c.jpg




Funny about the 8 lug rotor/transfercase holder. A few 241s builds ago, I rummaged through my junk pile to look for something to use a jig besides using a bucket and spotted an 8 lug rotor. As it turns out the nose of a 208 and 241 fits perfectly in the hub hold and stays well balanced too. Total Homer style! :lol:


Got the shaft back yesterday. It had to be cut down to make it longer. The reason I suspect the rear output on the 241 was bent is because I had a shaft made for a years ago what was a tad long. It wasn’t long after the 2016 Desert Trip when one of my friends came along and drove the Polar Bear did the vibration get worse. I’m pretty sure while flexing and bouncing that week the driveshaft stabbed the output hard on a compression when the back of the Burb was loaded with camping gear. After that trip it started eating seals and slip yoke bushings as well. I should have ran a gauge on the output before tearing it down but I was too excited to do the SYE regardless
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c3910c93_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f4b7fb076e.jpg

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Wow..time flies...I remember when my shrimp would play in back of one of my trucks (AKA corralled) so I could get things done. Now grade 3 doing crazy math!
https://i.imgur.com/Z6nthRF.jpg?1

Here is the Sub as it sits today. Threw on set of 15x8 steelies and some 33s BFGs. Need to adjust speedo ratio but it works.
https://i.imgur.com/fvi32hE.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/CYTe5Tg.jpg?1
It was filthy. Hadn't been washed in over a year but everything worked (almost) and price was unbeatable. Came with a full tank and tags paid til next yr!
Same owner since '94. Got a stack of maintaince 2" thick going back to when he bought. He never skipped oil changes, diffs etc. Doesn't leak anything.
Has engine oil cooler and PS cooler which was neat to see.
Still needs ton of cleaning but but it'll be trail ready in next month or so.
If it stays around, it'll get a 6.2 6L80 eventually but this TBI is running smooth for now and passes smog.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Looks good to me! :c2:

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry, the new pieces sure look great! I really like that fixed yoke set up on there.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Great thread! Bump for an update...:D.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I believe I saw some pictures on IG where he is out galivanting around in the reborn K10, I'm waiting for an update on either of his squares. :lol:

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

That he is. I'd be there with them, but I need to stick close to home as my Mom isn't doing well healthwise. The rebuild of the K10 and my 8.1 swap sucked up most of his wrenching time over the last year.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Jumping on the 8.1L band wagon, well I have been on it for a while but finally getting to do some work on mine. Wanted to thank you Larry for all the information that you have provided on this swap. I was wondering if anyone has ever put one of Raylar's superchargers on one of these while doing the swap? It is something that I am looking into and thinking it would be a lot of fun.:devil: Only thing I am wondering about is the pulley set up as I am running the brackets for the top mount a/c compressor. Called Raylar but haven't heard back form them. We will see where that goes.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I noticed in an early post that you steamed cleaned the engine bay after removing the engine. Which steamer did you use? And did you do any scrubbing, or did the steam handle most of it?

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

The guy I got my 8.1 from put a Raylar supercharger on an 8.1 in his 3/4 ton Yukon XL. He later used it on a PSI 8.8 block with a stroker crank that makes 9.5L and the blower. I got to ride in with the blown 8.1. Rowdy. I'll put it this way, with the 8.1 it was way quicker than a 3/4 ton Yukon was ever intended. With the 9.5 he told me it loses traction in 3rd gear north of 60mph.

As fun as it was, for what I do with mine it would be complete overkill. It's worth every penny though. I saw it before he installed it. It was very well done.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I finally talked with Larry from Raylar and he told me to keep the factory suburban brackets and notch the frame as the high mount a/c compressor would cause problems with clearance and the new supercharger. So now I face that dilemma, ditch the supercharger idea or notch the frame. :smoke:

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I'm not a fan of cutting the fame. Even less so if you are stuffing a heavy blown big block right on the area of the frame that would need to be chopped up.

I guess it really depends on what the primary goal is with the truck. For Larry and I, having the blower is pointless as the power isn't needed like that off road 100 miles from pavement. If you plan on drag racing or embarrassing diesel bros with a blown 8.1 on the street, it may not be as much of an issue to chop the frame for ac compressor clearance.

Squarebody's have notoriously flexy frames so it wouldn't be my first plan to chop the frame and stress it further with a blown big block. But it ain't my truck.