Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Ooooooo, cleeeeean! Yaaay, putting stuff together!
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Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

man you do some nice work!

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Thanks! I've been spending a lot of time on the little parts, and it's good to finally start putting them in.

Tell me about it!! I'm watching my parts boxes start to disappear, and my workbench is starting to have areas where I can actually see the bench top. I feel like I'm starting to finally gain some momentum, and things are happening quickly.

Dino, coming from you, I take that as a huge compliment! I've been in the aerospace industry for the last 23 years building prototypes, so I'm a stickler for the details. This project has been fun, and I've been really getting after it to get it on the road. I've been without a running hot rod for too dang long, and I'm tired of it! I was hoping to have it ready for Brother's, but it's unlikely that it'll be done by then.

Your "One and Done" event looked like a blast!! You guys knocked it out of the park!!

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

It's been awhile since I've posted on this thread, but that doesn't mean that I haven't been getting anything done on the '64. Quite the opposite, actually. I have been working on the brake system, and there is a design issue with the '60-'66 trucks that has always bugged me and I decided to do something about it. I have never liked the brake pedal height (way too high) and I have always thought that the trucks that have had the disc brake conversion have the wrong pedal ratio. There's too much brake pedal travel. After some thought, research, and fabrication, I may have come up with the answer.

I'm not a fan of buying expensive aftermarket parts because I try to stretch my "project money" as far as possible. I was adamant that this mod had to be inexpensive and utilize as many factory parts as possible.

First of all, let's talk about brake pedal ratio. Instead of going through a long discussion about theory, here's a link that explains it easily:
http://www.piratejack.net/index.php?...d=14&Itemid=21
I calculated the pedal ratio of the stock, manual brake pedal on my '64 and came up with 6.8-1. That's just fine for manual brakes, but wrong for power brakes. After some calculation, I determined that if you move the linkage attach point on the pedal down 1.5", you can get a brake ratio of 4.1-1, perfect for power brakes. So, I got a 3/8" drill bit and drilled the new hole. I mocked everything up, but I didn't like what I saw. Now, the linkage from the pedal to the booster would be going up at a steep angle to depress the plunger in the booster. I didn't like this at all:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps3ae6c285.jpg

I have one of Capt. Fab's booster adapter brackets (HIGHLY recommended) and have a 1996 S-10 booster. The biggest issue (at least to me) about using a late model booster is what to do with the eyelet on the end of the booster rod. A lot of guys will chop them off and re-thread the rod for a clevis or a heim joint. I actually LIKE the eyelet, but just couldn't figure out how to integrate it into my linkage. The only way for it to work was that it had to be supported so the booster rod would stay in a stationary arc. I pulled the pedal/clutch pedal assembly out of the truck and noticed that there was an unused hole about 3" back from the brake pedal hinge pin. It was obviously used on another truck application, probably the C60 and up models. I measured the i.d. of the hole, and came to the conclusion that it was the exact same size hole as the brake pedal hinge pin. Thank You, GM!!
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...psdf9a0392.jpg

Now, I knew how I was going to support the booster eyelet. I went to the wrecking yard and got another brake pedal and hinge pin. I wound up getting the entire assembly for $12.50. In this picture, you can see the pin slid into the previously un-used hole, and the attach bolt lined right up.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps823302b9.jpg

Here's the trial run mock-up. I did a quick chop on the extra brake pedal and basically turned it into a bellcrank. The existing hole in the brake pedal for the factory brake linkage worked out fine. You can see that the clevis on the brake pedal (the pedal painted black) will now attach to the tab on the chopped pedal.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...psab9521d8.jpg

Here's what the chopped pedal looks like after a little grinding and some paint. I want this to look 100% factory.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...psb42b74cb.jpg

Here's a picture of the set-up mocked in place. You can see how the bellcrank now supports the eyelet. You can also see the reinforcement pieces around the penetration holes for the hinge pin on the rear pin. I drilled out the spot welds on the piece I got from the wrecking yard and spot-welded the plates to the pedal support in order to make it all look factory. The issue now is how to attach the bellcrank to the stock brake pedal.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...psdc835024.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps15175b35.jpg

It had to be a clevis of some sort, preferably one that captured both sides of the bellcrank/booster rod connection. Brad was at the bolt shop and they had the perfect clevis. It's about 2.5" long, and the span of the jaw was .500", and it was a whopping $5. I measured the total width of the booster eyelet and the bellcrank tab, and it was .585", so the jaw was opened up slightly. The clevis is threaded on the end to accept a 7/16-20 fine thread bolt, just like the factory linkage. The only goofy thing about the clevis is that the eyelet holes are 7/16", so the factory hole in the brake pedal (which is now the bellcrank) needed to be opened up to 7/16". The eyelet in the booster is .640", which means that you will need to find or fab a bushing with an outer diameter of .640 and have an inner diameter of .437 (7/16"). I found a bronze bushing at Lowes with an o.d. of 5/8" (.625) and an i.d. of 3/8" (.375)., and it cost $3.88. The o.d. would work, but I opened the i.d. to 7/16" and chopped the total end to end length to .275. It worked perfectly. The linkage rod is merely a 2.5" 7/16-20 set screw, and it cost $1.80. The through bolt is a Grade 8, 2" long. The bolt head had to be ground down to about .250" tall in order to clear the side of the structure when the brake pedal is depressed. After all of the attach points were greased, the linkage works like butter, and the booster rod depresses the plunger with very little change in height. Another thing that this mod did was move the brake pedal closer to the floor. No longer will you have to lift your leg completely off of the seat to push the brake. Mission accomplished!
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps6e239da8.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps144c6849.jpg


Sorry for the long explanation, but I think that this mod will help anybody wanting to make their brakes work better and have vastly improved ergonomics. Plus, it was cheap, and I like that!!

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

This is another one of my favorite threads.
Nice job.
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Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Thanks! I've got a bunch of other things I'm doing as well, but I really want to post up the mods from start to finish in a single posting, so I'm waiting for a few of them to get completed. Things are starting to "come home" on this project, and hopefully, the momentum will continue.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

The brake pedal modification is a very impressive piece of re-engineering. This should be posted in the FAQ section as well. Beautiful work. Thanks for the detailed photos and technical explanations. I really appreciate the effort that goes into sharing this type of upgrade.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Thank you, Mark! You're a heck of a craftsman, and I really appreciate your comments.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

You do some amazing work, sir. I love this brake pedal modification. Thanks for detailing it so well, it makes imitating ideas so much easier. I like the idea of not having to lift your entire leg to depress the brake pedal. Kind of an increased safety factor as well.
Do you happen to have a picture of where the brake pedal sits at rest now?

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

This is always awesome! Killer work as usual. Too Kool.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Thanks!!
I'll get a picture of it on Thursday when I get back on the truck. I work 10hrs a day during the week, with a 135 mile round trip commute, so I don't get much time to work on the truck in the evening. Currently, the truck is over at Brad's house, but it will be coming back to my place as soon as we drop the engine and trans in and fire it off. My garage is too full of my other projects to have it at the house right now.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Thanks, Rusty!! Your comments are what motivates me to finish this thing and finally have something cool to drive again!!

I haven't finished a project in a long time, and I was doubting if I had the ability to do it anymore. I got so focused on my job that I would have a bad habit of starting some really cool projects only to sell them a year or two later because I was convinced that the project would never become a reality. One notable project was a 1967 Nova that I wound up selling to a guy who finished it, and I was crushed. He went 180 degrees from what I had started and wound up putting in a 305 TPI engine out of an 1988 IROC, along with the IROC wheels and gasp......the entire IROC dash and console. It was hideous.

I have to thank Brad (kustombrad on the site) for help keeping me focused and my eyes on the prize. Once he got his '49 on the road I was convinced that I needed to have as much fun as he was having. That meant getting one of my projects finished. It was time to quit being a spectator and start becoming a participant.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Very nice job on the brake pedal to booster pushrod fabrication, I like it. :thumbs:

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

always great to see you kat!

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

I was hoping you were going to like it. I am a HUGE fan of your booster and power steering adapters. Those things sure take a lot of guess-work out of how to upgrade to the later components. And the quality of the pieces are top-notch.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

You too, brother! I hope your trip home to Phoenix was safe and uneventful. Did you have to drive back at a speedy 55 mph all the way home?:haha:

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Very slick mod on the brake linkage!
Very nice & simple!

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

I spent a little time yesterday evening prepping the transmission for paint. I gave it a good cleaning, blasted it air to dry it, and did a bunch of sanding to blend out any chipped areas. I gave it a coat of DuPont etch primer last night, and got up at first light this morning and gave it a coat of chassis black. http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...pscc08e8f3.jpg
It's a 700r4 with upgraded internals (better clutches, sprag, servo). It's got about 20K very easy miles on it. The converter is a 2200 stall with lock-up capability. The cooler lines are some scraps I had in order to keep the ports clean, and the Lokar didpstick is going to get swapped to a stock style dipstick. I don't plan on putting any steel braided hoses under the hood, so the Lokar unit would not look right.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Lookin like progress! Just keep chippin', one thing no matter how small every day!
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Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Diggin' the tranny work man.
Totally stylin' :metal:

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Thanks!
I looked at the pictures again this morning, and the outside of the case where the clutch housing is looks like the paint crinkled, but it's the rough casting of the outer case. I even walked out into the shop and looked at it again to be sure.

Late yesterday, I decided to do a quick voltage check to see if I could hear the lock-up solenoid clicking, so I put 12v to the electrical plug and got nothing. I called my buddy who owned the trans before me and was the one who had it rebuilt said that he ran a non-lockup converter and had that function disabled. Bummer. I'm a big believer in the lock-up function, and I will ensure that it's operational before I put the trans into the truck.

So, I'll be draining the trans and getting the lock-up parts and making it all work. Something about tranny fluid just makes me want to send it off and let somebody else do it. It's messy, and no matter how well you prepare for spillage, you're going to make a huge mess.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Had a very productive day yesterday.
I am a real stickler about ergonomics whenever I build a car. It has to "feel" right, from the pedal placement, the column position, and especially the seat. I've sat in a lot of the '60-'66 Chevy trucks, and I've never been a fan of the "feel". You sit too high, the stock seat is overstuffed, the steering wheel is too big, and the pedals are too high off the floor. Because my '64 is essentially a clean-sheet build, I have the perfect opportunity to get the ergonomics tailored to my liking.

I was able to mount the column and the steering wheel, and the shape and size of the old wood wheel is going to be perfect, and it'll give me the '60s vibe I'm looking for.

On to the seat. I had two original '60-'66 stock seats that I played with, even using a pair of cut down stock seat brackets to get the seat lower, but I didn't like it. So, I wound up finding a bench seat out of the rear of an early '90s Chevy Crew Cab dually at the local Pick-A-Part that was in perfect condition for $70. It even has the flip down armrest that tucks into the seat. I put the seat into position, and it was a HUGE improvement over the stock seat, but it still needed improvement. So, with the assistance of Mr. Brad, we fired up the cut-off wheels and make sparks fly:

After careful consideration, it was determined that if the seat brackets had 2" chopped out of them, it would help get the seat down where it needed to be:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...psd629e3e7.jpg

The shape of the seat brackets don't allow the pieces to come back together perfectly without a slight gap at the bottom, but that's not a problem. I will build a plate to cover the seat bracket and probably carpet it when the time comes.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps7c890daa.jpg

This picture shows the new seating position. The seat is now lower by 2", and now that the gas tank has been removed from the cab, the seat is back all the way to the rear. You're not scrunched up anymore, like the stock configuration
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps8dd65b46.jpg

The gear selector and the turn signal lever are going to have to be chucked up in the lathe and shortened. Right now, they're much too long.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps65d23e07.jpg

One of the best things about using this seat in a '60-'66 is that you only have to drill 2 holes for the rear bolts. The fronts line up perfectly with the original nutplates in the floor. Again, thank you Chevrolet!

Next on the agenda:
Finalize the column position and "lock it down"
Gas tank(s) mod.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

With the seat lower, do you have enough legroom? I like the gas pedal spacer, too.

On your TCC, if you can put the trans on your engine stand and roll it over, it will make everything 100% easier. Good excuse to add a drain plug to the pan, too.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

From the original stock height of the '60-'66 seat to the '90 seat being modified(lowered), how many inches did you achieve?


The stock seat has me craning my neck at stop lights.
Even with the cab stretch I've mocked up stop light conditions and end up having to bend down to look up to see a light.http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sp...smiley-033.gif
Looks great, You took all the guess work out, got me sold on the idea:metal:

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Jonboy-
I believe that I have gained a bit of legroom by being able to move the seat farther aft. The seat back is thinner, compared to the stock seat, which helps a bit, too. You can see just how much thinner the bottom is from the side pictures. Cumulatively, this all adds to to more room. Plus, it feels so much more comfortable. The stock seat is way too bouncy, and the later seat has a much more dense foam, which I like.

I agree with throwing the trans on my engine stand. That's the best way to work on one, and being able to flip it upside down keeps it from dripping and is also nice when you're trying to get all the check balls in the right position when the valve body goes back on.

I'm not sure how much I saved because I never measured the stock seat with the stock brackets. If someone is able to measure their stock measurement, I'll get the measurement of my seat today and we'll post up the difference. It may only be a few inches, but in the grand scheme, that can make a huge effect.
I HIGHLY recommend an '88-'92(?) seat for our trucks. They fit well and are very comfortable. Cutting the seat brackets down may not be for everybody, but I like sitting low and as far back as possible. I don't like being bunched up because on a long trip, that will wear you out.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

This is what I'm talking about! Fellas take note.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

I have a stock bench I can measure out for you.
It will be tomorrow at the soonest though, I am on duty tonight.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Like the looks of it! I did my trams on the stand, highly recommended. Are you gonna use the BTO kit? I liked that it solved all the geometry probs in one whack. Are you gonna use a vacuum cutoff as well? Glad you're back on the job, as it were.
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Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

I made a measurement from the floor (no carpet) to the top of the front edge of the seat and it was 14.25 inches. A few board members offered to measure their seats, so we'll see what the difference is very soon.

I'm back on my game!! Feels good, too!!

Thank You, Sir!!

Not sure what kit I'm going to use yet. I was thinking about just making the lock-up work off of a switch for simplicity, but the vacuum kit makes it real simple because the trans does all the work.
Brad did his TV cable using a factory bracket with a slight mod and it works great on his Holley. I might use the same set-up.

Bow Tie Overdrives is actually in the next town over. I've used their stuff before, and it worked good. You'd be shocked at how their place looks. They do a ton of business, but their shop is a dive. 99% of what they do is mail order, so it doesn't matter how nice the place looks. Those boys crank out some transmissions.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Oh hey, if you're gonna have to do a converter, the 4.3 Blazer ones apparently have a tad more stall built in to get it movin'. Hope it helps!
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Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Here are a couple of quick and dirty shots of the stock bench seat measurements I promised.
I hope this gives you guys a ballpark estimate of what you were discussing.

Rock on man !!

Attachment 1130715

Attachment 1130716

Attachment 1130717

Attachment 1130718

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Thanks for the pics McMurphy.

From the way chevyrestoguy describes the room and comfort Im keeping my eyes open for a seat to try out.


Thanks Fellas

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

I was looking at only the standard cab trucks at first and had no luck finding a good, serviceable seat. Most of them were thrashed. Once I realized that the 4dr crew cab trucks used this same seat as the rear seat, it gave me another possible option. You will find that the crew cab rear seats have much less usage and usually in very good condition. Try to find one with the flip down armrest, it's a really nice feature for the driver.

McMurphy-
Thanks for the measurements. Is there any way you could get a vertical measurement from the floor to the top of the upholstery at the front edge of the seat? This measurement will tell us the height difference between my modified seat and a stock seat. My measurement was 14.25" from the floor to the top of the front of the seat.
Thanks!

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

What year crew cab seats are you using?

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Mine measured at 12" however the springs may be worn, which would explain the foam pad that was glued to the seat of it.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Because it was in a wrecking yard, I wasn't exactly sure of the year. In 1992, GM finally started building crew cabs in the body style that came out in 1988. If memory serves me correctly, 1995 was a year where they made a lot of interior changes, seats included. If I were to guess what year crew cabs had the "good" seats, I would have to guess 1992-1994. I'm not too versed on that generation of truck, so it's just a guess.

Because this seat isn't a 60/40, it also came in the standard cab trucks. Extended cabs had the 60/40 for access to the rear seats. The base models were usually vinyl upholstery, whereas the upscale models like the Silverado, had cloth upholstery and usually, the armrest.

This might be a good question to post up in the '88-'98 forum. Those guys could give us the exact years to look for.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

looks like your photos on page 14 got messed up...you're correct on the interiors changing in '95....I had blue cloth buckets in a similar pattern in my old '93 fullsize reg. cab....from reading, it seems as though crew cabs began in '88 for the '88-98 body style, but it was a 3500 series. Not sure when that particular seat pattern began though (if it matters), but I think '90-94 should be what to look for.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

The pictures are now fixed. I had exceeded my bandwidth and had to upgrade my Photobucket.

likaroc13-
Thanks for the info. I remember that they carried over the old (pre '88) crew cab 4 drs. until 1991, and the '88-'98 body style crew cabs showed up in 1992. I'm talking crew cab, not extended cab. I remember that everybody with a pre '88 wanted the '88-'91 crew cab front ends because they were cool looking and only the rich guys could afford the swap.

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

No prob. You are correct, as I had forgotten crews were square-body through '91. Same for the fullsize Blazer & Burbs. It's a little confusing sometimes. :lol: So yeah, I'd say '92-94 for the crew cabs, & '90-94 for regular OBS C/K trucks.

btw, nice job on your brake pedal modification...& I dig the steering wheel, which fits in nicely :chevy:

Re: Project '64 Cheapskate
 

Thanks!
I really stewed over using that wheel. I'm old enough (I'm 49) to remember when those wheels were really popular, and also remember a few years later when they were EXTREMELY uncool. I remember yanking them out of a few cars and tossing them right into the trash. A pristine original Superior or Grant wood wheel brings big bucks nowadays. I've seen them going for $300 on ebay. Who would have known?

My wheel is a little different because it hardly has any "dish" at all to it, which works out just right for interior space. I can only assume that my wheel came out of an old van from back in the day, because it's a small diameter and nearly flat. I'm going for a late '60s theme, so finding a suitable wheel was harder than I thought. It was absolutely trashed when I bought it, and some cleaning with acetone and a coat of satin clear made it look better, but the chrome is terrible. The patina will match the rest of the truck, I guess.