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1960 Apache K10 build
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So I have been a forum creeper for quire a while, and I figured it was time to start to contribute.
So lets start with the introduction to the project. I recently found a 1960 Apache 30 dually that used to have a grain box on it. I managed to pick it up for 600 bucks with an extra box that was laying around! The former owner was having health issues, and he wanted it to go to a good home where someone would actually do something cool with it. So that's the starting point... now the fun part is what is the plan for it... I have read lots of good things about frame swapping these trucks onto the 2000-2006 Tahoe frames. The plan would be to retain as much of the Tahoe as possible, maintaining the good ride and handling qualities, and have a cool body onto of the newer tech. will it work? I dunno...but it sure sounds good when you say it fast! The wheel bases match within an inch. 115 vs 116 respectively. So I bought the kit from ez chassis swaps to do just that. they have the solution for the front bumper/crossmember, box and cab mounts, etc. So the plan is going to be to turn this into a short box fleet site 4x4. I want to put a 4.5" lift, and 33 or 35" tires on it. The big picture concept will be to retain as much of a stock look as possible. Factory style heat and air, factory style gauges, retain the DBW cruise control system. Even make the LS dressed up to look like a small block as much as possible. obviously I will not be able to get it looking totally correct, but I want to make it look as close as possible. I'm also planning to swap in a healthy 6.0 in place of the 5.3. Cam swap, headers etc. Some of the cool stuff...Tahoe's have hydro boost brakes already, so I'm hoping to retain the whole brake system, maybe even retain the ABS system. I'm also hoping to retain the factory fuel tank, hitch, and spare tire carrier. They have 4 wheel disc brakes, and almost everything is tucked all nice inside of the frame rails. very little hangs below the frame. So it should look reasonably clean. f One thing worth mentioning about my life...I generally work A LOT. And I'm always gone working away from home. I work up in Alberta Canada, and you know how it goes, you either have time, and no money, or no money and lots of time. BUT!! I think I finally have found a balance of both in my life. I just started a job where I work 14 days on, and 14 days off. My plan is to buy parts like crazy while I'm gone working, and try to spend at least three or four days per set of days off working on the truck. so...let the parts gathering begin... |
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so...I did some googling, and this is what I want the build to look like. approximately the same stance, same color, same tires. In the end, it should be a sharp looking machine.
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Should be a pretty cool build, can't wait. :)
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Nice Starter truck:metal:
I subbed your channel and put my vote in:chevy: ... |
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well...I did some heavy duty parts shopping...
The back story, I did a job earlier this year, and I worked pretty much every day in march. And as I was sitting in the frozen town of Grande Cache in the middle of a snow storm, I told myself that I was going to take all the money I made on that job, and put it into this build. It was the only thing that kept me motivated to show up to work every day, haha. So I don't feel as guilty ordering all the fancy bling bling parts. So anyhow, here is the list I have bought so far. BDS 4.5" lift kit with Fox shock upgrade Classic auto Air AC system Entropy radiator Dakota digital RTX gauge package Brothers trucks bed sides, front fenders. Delmo speed retro intake manifold kit to make the LS look like an old school SBC Summit racing- Holley two piece finned aluminum 2 piece valve covers Finned valley cover complete American autowire wiring harness flaming river steering column new Fast 39lb/hr injectors 3200 RPM converter new Comp K54-426-11 cam kit 4 corner steam kit flowmaster 3" stainless u build exhaust kit flowmaster stainless 3" delta flow 50 mufflers Texas speed stainless headers I also ordered an HP tuners thingy. so that will be another thing i need to learn how to use. Yes...my credit card is so hot, I can hardly hold onto it. And no, I do not feel any shame. I also bought a set of junkyard 862 heads which I plan to try porting myself. I have read a bunch on it, and I like the idea that they bump compression on the 6.0. I've never done porting before, so I will see how it goes. |
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Why the Fast 39lb/hr injectors? I didn't see where you've bought the system yet. Or the engine?
Are you keeping the stock running gear? |
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https://www.cpgnation.com/lets-talk-...4%2C800%20rpm. I'm thinking 475hp should be a lot of fun in the light little pick up. |
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Lookie what ended up finding its way home with me!
I have a buddy that runs a wrecking yard in Red Deer, and he found me this beauty. It's a 2006, with a 5.3 and 180,000km (about 115,000miles for you brethren south of the border). I paid 2500 bucks for the truck...AND he gave me a deal for an extra 500 bucks, it came with a 2003 6.0 LQ4 in the trunk! Apparently the back story is that it was a theft recovery. Its super clean inside and out. It's almost a shame to pull it all apart! it has the full leather interior that is in amazing shape, the Bose sound system, DVD player. Also interestingly enough, it came from Florida. it must have been imported into Canada at some point, because the dash was swapped over to metric. The funniest part that I found was that is sounds absolutely awful. It has the usual broken exhaust bolts, so it has a major exhaust leak. At start up and idle, its quite loud, and you get to hear FUB FUB FUB FUB FUB when you fire it up, but it does actually quiet down a little once it warms up and gets rolling on the highway. The good news is that it actually drove really really nice. It made me super excited for this build. It handles and steers so nice and light. I drive HD trucks for my work, so to jump from a Dodge 3500 4x4 into this thing was amazing. The only small thing I noticed was that there was a thump/rattle coming from the front drivers side wheel area. I'm hoping that might just be a bushing or something that is worn and will need replacing. It definitely did not affect how it drove. I think that's what I am most excited about for this build, I want this thing to ride and drive really nice. That's why i went with the BDS lift. From what I read, they are the best riding and driving lift on the market. We will see I guess. I checked the tag in the glovebox, and it has 3.42 gears, so a gearing change is definitely in my future. I'm thinking 4.10 or 4.56, depending on if I go with 33" or 35" tires. I don't currently have an engine hoist, so I'm going to have to rip the 6.0 down to nothing so I can hand bomb it out of the back of this thing. Should keep me busy for a while! |
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I got the front accessories off...Next step will be to tear this thing down so I can actually lift it...then carefully ponder my poor life choices not having a hoist.
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Might as well go ahead and pick up an engine hoist. It'll save your back and is useful for many other things than just hoisting an engine. Check the used market for one too. Someone might be doing a moving sale or shop clean out
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I got the 6.0 all torn apart and ready to clean up and paint. It was a little bit awkward, but I managed. But...slow and steady, got it pulled apart. I also pulled apart and cleaned the 862 heads that i got.
I tried a few different methods of cleaning, and I think I settled on a nice middle ground. I hit them with some oven cleaner and let them soak for about 45 minutes. this gets most of the grime off of them. After that, I mix some purple cleaner and water in a spray bottle, and soak them down, and scrub them with a wire brush. They came out actually looking much cleaner than I had expected. The plan with the 862's is to do a quick little port job, lap the valves, and put them on the 6.0 for a little extra compression. Anyhow, I should be getting some parts soon, So things should keep rolling right along! |
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On the gearing thing here is some comparison numbers for you if you do interstate. I will say I'm not a big fan of a higher stall converter in a heavy car\truck but that may be a personal thing and depends on the motor setup pretty heavily.
265\65r17-3.42 R&P-4L60E=1843RPM@70MPH 315\70R17-4.10 R&P-4L60E=1965RPM@70MPH 315\70R17-4.56 R&P-4L60E=2185RPM@70MPH |
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One thing I forgot to mention was the broken exhaust bolts I fixed. Like usual, the 862 heads that I bought had a bunch of broken exhaust bolts still stuck in the head. I had done a bunch of research on the best way to extract them. The top two methods I saw were either drilling and using an easy out, or welding on a nut. I know how bad my results have been using the drill and easy out method in the past, so having said that, I found that the method that made the most sense to me was welding a nut onto the broken stud. So I figured I would give that a try. Besides, I just bought a new welder, and I am looking for every excuse I can to practice with it.
So the procedure I used was simple. I just cleaned up the end of the broken stud with a wire wheel on a Dremel so I had a good surface to weld to, I placed a nut over the broken stud, and gave it a little buzz with the MIG. And I simply spun out the bolt with a wrench. All of the broken bolts came out without a hint of problem after I welded the nut on. I made sure to spin the broken section out while the nut was still warm from welding. Not sure the heat helped or not, but it didn’t seem to hurt. Some were broken with a good 3/8” sticking above the gasket surface, and some were broken 1/8” or more below the surface. All of them welded no problem and caused no damage to the head. And for the record, the welder I bought is a Miller multi matic 220 AC/DC. It is a MIG/TIG/ Stick machine, and it is pretty amazing. It has a lot of smart control options, and it even makes my hack welds look almost like I know what I’m doing. One thing that I really noticed helped me a lot was switching from the straight CO2 to Argon CO2 mix. I found much less spatter, and much easier to weld thinner metals without burning through. I’m sure you guys that are better at welding already know this, but for the rookies like me, it was a real noticeable change. Anyhow, next steps, lap the valves, and try porting the heads. I bought a trunion upgrade kit for the rockers as well, so I will be installing that too. |
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That's a good trick and , yes, the heat did help. That's one reason why it works so good. As the aluminum got warm the hole got bigger, and the bolt shrunk a little as it cooled. There is a welding rod that will let you weld to a bolt that is broken deep down in the hole also, it's called extractalloy.
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Re: 1960 Apache K10 build
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I just weighed my 65 short step again this summer, and it is 3600lbs with me in it and a tank of fuel. It does have the fiberglass front end and no inner fenders, so that will trim a little weight off the nose, but I can't see that it would be more than 100-200lbs. The Tahoe frame is fully boxed, so I can see that would add some extra weight, maybe an extra 50 lbs? The engine and transmission should weigh the same, as they are both iron blocks, aluminum heads, and they both have the 4L60, so that should be the same weight. The only other major difference would be the weight of the 4wd parts, transfer case, front diff, and the extra drive gear. I was actually quite amazed how light the aluminum center sections and transfer cases of these trucks are. I don't think I will be paying much a weight penalty for all the 4wd goodies. If my current truck weighs 3600... add 150 for the steel hood, fenders and inner fenders, and extra frame weight add 100 for the np 246 transfer case add 100 lbs for the front diff add 100 lbs for front axles and drive shaft maybe throw in some extra for the bigger tires as well. the wheels should be close to the same weight as an aluminum wheel should be close in weight to what I'm running on my 65, the tires will be the main difference. I figure I should be right around 4000-4200lbs going down the road when I have it all together, which really isn't THAT bad, all things considered. I did some googling and found that most of the muscle cars of the late 60's tipped the scales in the 3600-3900 lb range, so if my truck ends up at 4000-4200lbs, I will be pretty happy. From what I have read, the Tahoe's are pretty porky, tipping the scales at 6000lbs+. I haven't weighed mine yet, but I will as soon as I get the lift kit in it. if any of you guys out there have a 2000-2006 Tahoe, and know the weight of it off hand, let me know. I would bet that a mild tune of the stock 5.3, the gear swap from 3.42 to 4.56, and the weight reduction of 1500ish lbs should make this a really fun driver. I have also made the decision that I am going to keep the 5.3 in it for right now to just get it running and on the road, and I will keep working on the 6.0 in the mean time. Getting the 6.0 to put down 450-475 hp should really make this a fun machine. |
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Next step…re-gear the diffs. I checked with the local driveline shops, and apparently there are some pretty long wait times, so I figured I should get at getting the diffs rebuilt. The 3.42’s just aren’t going to cut it with 33’3 or 35’s. I decided to go with 4.56’s and a true track. Pulling the rear end out was fairly uneventful. And I decided to leave the front in, and just buy a rebuilt unit.
I checked with the driveline shop, and they had them in stock, and I’ll get a refund for the core when I bring it back. I didn’t have time to rip the front end out before I had to leave for work, so she sits in the driveway with no rear for now. I’m planning to install the BDS 4.5” lift kit in once I get the front and rear diff’s back. It’s going to look pretty funny with a 4.5” lift and factory tires, but hey, I’m into things that aren’t normal. Everything Chassis and suspension related seems pretty solid so far. Part of the reason that I picked 4.56 gears is that I know the overall ratio works well. I have 3.73’s with a 27.25” tire in my 65 2wd, and I really like the overall combination. It has plenty of get up and go, yet it is quiet enough on the highway when it’s down in OD. I typically cruise on the highway at about 70mph, and I’m turning 2250rpm. The new combo with 4.56 gears will be a tad lower rpm on the highway, but not by much, maybe 100rpm or so, which is negligible. However, it’ll be interesting to take it for a cruise before I put the big tires on and see what the difference feels like. |
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well, well, well...looks like I got a visit from the delivery guy!
I was itching to see the new toys, so I thought I would mock them up on an engine I had on the stand in the garage. (no this engine is not going into this project, haha) The goal is going to be to make this look as old school as I can without loosing functionality. I want to retain the DBW throttle body, as well as the port EFI. So I went with the Delmo speed old school kit. And yes, I know I will lose low end with this manifold. That's a price I'm willing to pay to look this cool. So far...it looks pretty sweet. I also got the TSP stainless headers on, the summit valley cover, and the Holley valve covers/coil covers. I'm planning to paint the block chevy orange, and leave the heads raw aluminum. Should look pretty sharp. I'm looking for opinions on what kind of air cleaner to run on it. I might see if I can find something old school looking from an early 60's car. Again, I want to make it look fairly old school. I also have a couple ideas about turning that front filler neck into a breather like the old small blocks used to have. |
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This is what I was thinking for the breather. I would have to make a thread on the lathe and TIG it to the breather. I could use it as the breather for the PCV system.
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Love it. That engine will look cool. :)
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Thanks! I'm thinking it should all look pretty cool when I'm done. I'm not trying to look 100% original, but an overall original theme is more of my aim, hence dressing it up like a small block.
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Hear me out.... with the shape of those valve covers the engine looks less SBC and more 455 buick. Paint the engine\heads red and throw one of the dual inlet GS air cleaners on there, maybe stick coils up front under the air cleaner where it's hard to see.
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interesting concept...
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So one question that I have been pondering is if I will retain the Tahoe factory ABS system. I cant see any good reason not to keep it? Other than cluttering things up on the chassis, I can not see that there will be any kind of negative with continuing to run the ABS. Thoughts?
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Other than the clutter and added parts I don't see a negative to keeping it, that said it is a good many parts that can be expensive to replace later down the rd but you could always delete it then if it starts giving you problems.
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It's alright. :) Thank you for the kind words.
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I decided to paint up the 6.0, just to see how it'd look all cleaned up.
agian...I was questioning my life choices not having an engine hoist for this...I thought I was going to drop an O-ring getting it into my truck, and I dont mean an O-ring in the motor ha ha. I took it to the folks farm, where we have a blaster. I gave it a quick soda blast to clean off all the old paint and rust. I followed that with two coats of duplicolor engine primer, followed by the duplicolor chevy orange engine enamel. I think it turned out pretty good! The paint was definitely soft for a day or two, but has since hardened up a ton. I think I nearly killed my poor neighbor when he helped me lift it out of my truck and into my garage when I got home. Lesson learned...I bought an engine hoist. |
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Cleaning and prepping for paint
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primer and paint
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So I just realized I haven't updated this in quite a while. Life just got a bit busy. You know how it goes.
I randomly was driving down the highway to see my parents, and I saw a for sale sign on a small parcel of land. I tossed out a low ball offer, and wouldn't you know it, the guy ripped my arm off. Turns out the back story was that the property belonged to his great uncle, who was a bachelor, and had no immediate next of kin. The uncle passed away, and then a fire came through along the highway in the spring, burnt the entire place to the ground. Long story short...I now have 10 acres of a blank canvas to build a shop on. I really have way too much stuff to keep operating out of a regular garage. So I kind of shifted gears from building a truck mode to building a shop shop mode. My long range plan is to have something built within the next 5 years. I am thinking maybe a 60'x60'? If any of you have feedback on shop sizes, let me know. Anyhow, that is why the posts have slowed down. I have still been making progress on the build slow and steady, I just need to update what I have been up to! |
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I doubt this will be popular advice but I'm use to money being tight so I would build the shop you can reasonably afford now but plan for an addition down the line. I love seeing the guys build 120'x120' dream shops with living quarters as much as the next guy but if you can get anything over maybe 30'x40' on the ground with concrete floor you have a good start, just place it where you can expand type of deal. That and make at least one side have an extra concrete parking pad incase you have something to work on outside that won't fit in the shop that you will eventually fill up.
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So I thought I would take a crack at porting heads on my own. I read a couple different articles about a quick porting job on the 706 castings, so I figured I would give that a try.
This is the article I based my efforts around. https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ls...mber-work/amp/ So I got a set of carbide bits and cartridge rolls off Amazon, and went to town. The whole intent was to just unshroud the outside edges of the valves. I used the 6.0 gasket as a template, and scribed a line where the gasket would lie. I made sure I had at least 0.180” clearance between the edge of the valve and the edge of the head at all points in the lift range. This wasn’t too hard to do. I made sure to keep the shape as consistent as I could from cylinder to cylinder. Overall…this was pretty easy. I’ll see if it makes a difference when I put the whole thing together. From most of the research that I did, it should be good for something like 10-15hp. While I was at it, I chased all of the threads in the head and cleaned everything up all nice. Next step, lap the valves, put in new springs, and trunion upgrade kit. |
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Well, I can tell you one thing. Good heads are expensive…because they are worth it. Getting these junk yard heads cleaned up, and back together has been a lot more work than I expected. Either way, it was an interesting process to do.
I started with engraving the valve number on each valve so I wouldn’t mix them up once they got lapped. I got some lapping compound from the local auto parts store, and got to work. I lightly greased each valve stem, gave the valve seat a light coating of lapping compound, and chucked it in the drill. I tried to keep the time and pressure as even as I could with each valve. I think they seem to have turned out nice. We will see when I get them back together I guess. I also added new seals and springs while i was at it. I ordered the Comp valve spring kit to match the cam that I will be running. Pictures are of a before and after on the valve seat. |
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new comp springs beside the old ones
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Completed heads
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Started on the trunnion upgrade for the rockers. This was a fairly simple thing to do. I got the kit from comp cams. The new design seems much better than the factory design, as it retains the needle bearings in case of a failure. It also has a snap ring on each end so they really cant walk out. Do I really think failure is that likely? No. It that big of a deal? Probably not. But I feel better knowing that I have one more piece done. For install, I used a socket on each end, and put them in the vise. With a small amount of pressure, they would pop right out. I had a couple different sets of rockers to choose from, so I ended up looking through them all and finding the least worn ones, and using those. I put them in my ultrasonic cleaner for half hour with some purple cleaner, and they came out clean and new looking. When I was inspecting them, I noticed the push rod cups on the rocker varied a lot in wear, even ones that came from the same head. Some were worn significantly more than others. I used the best ones I could find. Installation of the new parts was the reverse of taking the old shaft out. Just make sure to check for free movement once you have it together. If you put too much pressure on them from one side of the other, the shaft will bind. It took a little trial and error to find the sweet spot, but eventually I got a pretty good feel for it.
Pressing old shafts out |
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New vs old bearing. Also showing the new snap ring style compared to the stock pressed in style.
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Ready to Rock (see what I did there?)
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In other news, I think I have decided the size of shop I want to build. I'm thinking 40'x60' is about what I want. I am playing with the idea of an enclosed 20' wide lean-to along the long side. Heat being optional on this side. The idea behind this, is that it gets things out of the elements, but not necessarily inside the main working area of the shop, and doesn't necessarily need heat. It keeps things away from snow, rain, dirt and mice. I'll see what budget allows in the spring I guess. Any of you out there with a 40 x 60? how do you like it?
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