Engine?
This is a 3 part question.
I'm building a 57 chevy pro-street themed P.U. and am considering going one of a few ways on the engine trans combo. My frame has a 67 chevelle front clip on it. #1 - 454 vortec pulled out of an 99 truck. This engine has 90,00 miles on it so I will have to go through it and freshen/replace what is worn out on it. On the plus side it has all the accessories and brackets on it. It also has the multi port FI and comes with the computer to run it. Is this a decent FI for the street? Is there a way to tell if it has 4 bolt mains and a forged crank without pulling the pan? I can get this engine for $1,000. I would need to get a trans for it, possibly a 4L80. this seems to be about the most cost effective way to go if the stock FI will make some decent power. #2 - I can get a 6.0 LS2 out of a 2009 SS Trail Blazer with a 4L60 trans and computers. This is supposed to be a 390 HP motor. Only supposed to have 18,000 miles so it should be good to go. I will have to change some things to make it fit my frame so that will add to the overall cost. My biggest concern with this route is if the engine trans isn't what it's purported to be. This could end up being a costly rebuild. #3 - I have a new 4 bolt 454 bare block that would have to be built from the ground up. I'm just looking for a cruiser that will have decent power and not brake the bank getting there. I'm leaning towards the BBs because of all the room in the engine compartment on the truck but the fact the LS 2 has the trans makes it tempting. Sorry for the long post. I do appreciate any info I get. Kim |
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If it is an LS2 from a TBSS then it is actually a 4L70E trans. Samething as a 60E but better internals from the factory.
The LS2's make an honest 400hp/400ftlbs. My wife has a 2007 AWD version and is a low 14 second/high 13 second truck at 4,900lbs, tows my truck with trailer with out any problems. Her AWD version get's 16mpg mixed driving, freeway it get's high 19's. I would assume in stock format that it would get low 20's if just 2wd. Go look at the casting numbers. Head casting should be a 243, here is a link to it's location: http://f.imagehost.org/0502/292.jpg Block should be 12568950 and found on the back top drivers side. |
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Yup, the LS2 would get my vote also. Even if you have to rebuild it! Big blocks have grunt that's no question, but to have the same power, in a package at nearly 1/2 the weight, and have drivability and effeiciency,, we all need to start looking at these LS motors more seriously.
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X3 for the LS2. Check the LSx section of the site out.
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Thanks for the info guys.
Kim |
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I would love to see a option #3 - 4 bolt 454 bare block that would have to be built from the ground up in your truck.
Nothing wild. 10.5 compression ratio, Dual Pattern cam, etc. Ground Pounder, but not sucking gas. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1305235070 I like things old school myself. I would stay away with option #1. 6.0 LS2 doesn't sound bad. But you will have to deal with the electronics. I think The 6.0 LS2 V8 was rated at 395 hp with 400 lbft of torque and claimed to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in an estimated 5.8 seconds with quarter mile times around 14.2 seconds at 100.0 mph.. 4-speed automatic 4L60-E and 4L70-E (only with LS2 6.0 liter engine) Here is the 2006 review Option #4 If you hit the Lotto ==> ;) |
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I like the big block. Once you go big block you never go back!
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Once you roll phat you never go back....:metal:
Foe Fitty Foe;) Posted via Mobile Device Posted via Mobile Device |
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I would go option #2 because it allows more air to move around in your engine compartment and...leaves room for a twin turbo setup later on.
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I'm also kinda antsy to get it on the road and my bad back keeps rearing its ugly head. Kim Quote:
Kim |
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Never had a big block, but I am more than happy whoopin on other trucks with a big block :)
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454. or 496 it!!
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Love to see folks faces that a SBC just spanked a big dog BBC. :lol::lol: SBC/LS lover to the end of my days! :metal: |
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This is my 1st one so it's all new to me.
Everything I've read says there very easy to get to know and make tons of H.P. Kim |
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IMO LS motors are very easy too, make awesome power with driveability. My 347ci motor with 247/251 degrees of duration and .610/.612 lift made 449rwhp and was easy to drive. That is a BIG cam in a 347ci motor. To have street manners says something. Would start cold, never surge or die. Heck, it even ran vacum brakes. Ran the numbers in my sig.
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Kim |
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I am a Die Hard Big Block guy for racing but the LS motors are very Impressive. A BBC will get half of the fuel mileage of the Ls Motor. I am putting a 454 in my son's truck but it may come out for an LS motor if it gets much street use.
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Okay I hate to do it but I just gotta..... so not trying to turn this thread but....!
LS vs. BBC for racing which would you have less money into and still put down some great times going down the track with good street manners? Toughie huh? |
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Street manners are open to interputation.
With an LS2 block and stock heads, the right cam/converter/gear/tire I bet you could go high 11's NA and quite possible high 10's with a little bottle. |
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Guys here's a link to a discussion on another forum about the LS with a couple of reply's from it. Seems the factory did their homework on these engines and they make tons of HP without a lot of extras.
Kim http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365904 Quote:
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What does it cost to build a NA LS motor to 700hp?
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69GMC910
I get where you are going with the cost. I probably have one of the stronger LS set ups on this board. I have about $8k in to my forged 418ci LS3 set up and I would guess with the new top end combo it will be around the 650 mark NA (Shooting for 525-550rwhp through a loose converter). That is a pump gas (California 91 octane) drinking hyd roller combo. Put that in any 4th gen F-body and it could drive tons of miles for years on end with manageable street manners, not to mention run deep 10's if not high 9's with the right drivetrain combo. I am not argueeing that big blocks can't be built to go just as fast(er), and might be able to do it with less outgoing cost. The big block has the advantage for sure with the added cubic inches. It really comes down to what a person wants. With that said, the LS2 out of a TBSS with stock heads, mid 230* duration or bigger cam, headers, right gear/stall should have no problem getting a 3600-3800lb truck in to the low 12's - high 11's. Keep in mind the LS is retaining the stock rotating assembly etc. That is pretty cheap when you add it up. $400 Custom cam $250 valve springs $150 push rods $300 Injectors $300-500 Tune Both need $?? Converter (wide range here, but needed with the big block too) $?? Gears (again a wash) $?? Headers (debateable which would be cheaper) It's not like the Big Block doesn't have costs associated with it either that the LS motor wouldn't. Carb Intake Heads Building the shortblock Not to get in to a pissing match, but let me ask this, how much money would it take to build a bare 454 block in to the high 11's? Or even a stock 454? I honestly don't know what it would cost and take. |
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I 100% agree the LS is a bada$$ engine.
There are $10,000 big blocks running 9's easy... It's everything else behind it that costs so much $$$! I fully expect (fingers crossed!) to run mid 11's with my soon to arrive big block. As you said though, there are a pile of costs with both... I almost cried when I paid 700 bones for headers! Then there's the fuell cell, the fuel pump, the carburator, the distributor, the stall convertor, the rad fan, the rad..... Geez, where are my heart pills?!! Once my drivetrain is done, I am hoping to be under $15,000. |
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I am a big BBC guy and have been for years. If I were starting all over with out any parts I would start with an LS base engine. The thought of loosing a min. of 200lbs not counting years of technology poored into the new ls based engines. The cylinder heads flow as much if not more cfm than a bbc. The added crankshaft support etc... just an awsome engine! My brother runs these engine and I have been impressed. He tooked a junkyard bottom end LS6 short block 80k+/-miles, installed a custom solid roller stick, patriot stage 3 heads with a carb and plate kit shooting 250 in a 3350 pound car ran a 9.17. that just blows my mind. I would have to say a LS engine is the future....:metal:
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Perhaps I am looking in the wrong place, but I don't see that many 9 second 3800lb NA big block trucks, let alone ones that only have 10k in to their motor set ups. I do how ever see a handfull of 10 second ones. But that leads me to ask, that handfull are they pump gas motors or high compression solid roller deals that require race gas and constant valvetrain adjustment.
Again, I'm not flaming the big blocks, just don't know a whole bunch about them. |
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I shoulda been more specific... It was a 3200lb car, solid roller on race gas.. The huge advantage with an LS i that they require waaay less labour to make power... I would say there are more bbc aftermarket parts on the market, but that could be untrue is as little as 5 years.. Who knows...! Bottom line is do your research and build what you want :)
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Usually when they don't list the price, it costs too much. :lol:
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LS motors are impressive. You can buy a 750hp LS based (LSX454X) crate motor from GM PERFORMANCE PARTS. A 454 cid small block? Ok...it's a small block, GM says so. Not very streetable, not intended to be (13.1:1cr, solid roller cam and a carb, not injected) and not on pump gas. Makes all the hp and torque numbers at "peak RPM" what ever "peak" is. LS motors are impressive, however, with 502 cid big block you can have 502hp @5200 RPM and 567lb.-ft. torque at 4200 RPM, 500+ lb.-ft of torque at 2500 RPM and drive it anywhere/everywhere for a long time with low maintenance on pump gas. You can't do that with a NA "small block". Now... be nice to me with your replies (I'm putting up my umbrella preparing for the sh*t storm I know is coming). Once you go big block you'll never go back.
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All of these motors are impressive but they all got there ups and down. Its like the old saying goes you have three choices when it comes to a motor: cheap, fast, or reliable, but you can only choose two. You can make a gen one small block (350 or 383) crank out 500hp easily and be just as reliable as that 502 as long as you know what you are doing for less. LS motors are great because they are a very efficient design and don't take much to make good power, but they're going to get more expensive as demand grows for them. You can make an old gen one small block perform just as well as an ls motor in performance and "streetability" for the same amount of money if not substantially less than a brand new ls motor from GM. Same applies for a big block, but big blocks are known for making as much power as you want depending on your wallet thanks to the fact that there is no replacement for displacement (but don't expect them to get the gas mileage of an ls motor, but then again I wouldn't complain :metal:).
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Are those engine dyno numbers or chassis dyno numbers? Seems like a short power band, 1k rpm. Bad heads/intake on that combo?
My little 418 pump gas hyd cam low maintenece motor made 521rwhp at 6,950 and 469ftlbs at 5,500. Just putting it out there. Posted via Mobile Device |
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I was reffering to peak TQ (4,200rpm) and peak HP (5,200rpm)..
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Most converter companies will set a converter at Peak TQ or a couple hundred RPM past for max 1/4 mile ET on a NA motor. You will go fastest out of the hole hitting the tires with everything you can TQ wise. So, to me, with a drag racing application, you must consider shift extensions of the transmission you are using. Looking at average power in that rpm range is much more important that what is under the curve. Since most transmissions will create more than a 1k rpm drop having a longer peak to peak rpm band is not a bad thing.
Example: My motor makes peak TQ at 5,500 rpm and peak HP at 6,950 rpm. Data logger shows a shift at 7,700rpm with the glide and it comes back in second at 5,600. Data logger shows another pass I shifted at 6,500 and rode the converter at 5,200ish. Since I should be shifting the old combo about 7,100, I want the most average power between the converter at 5,200 and 7,100 meaning 1,900rpm. Now I have a 5,200 rpm verter vs a 5,700 due to using a N20 system. Does any of that make sense? Some will argue that riding the converter will help multiply TQ with the gear changes and net a better ET. I think that is dependant on combo. There is much more to this, it's not that plain and simple, but something to consider. Road cars, street cars and drag cars are all differentand require different things. |
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big block old school for me
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^ That is friggin AWESOME!
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