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is it a muncie or saginaw
Hey I'm lookin for help to ID my three speed.
the only stamp I could find was on the machined surface for the linkage cover M9H11A From what i have read this means its a muncie 3 speed made in 69 or 79 on june 11 and its a M20 (not sure what the M20 means) But I have also read that the muncie has the reverse shifter linkage on the rear extension but I dont have that ..... so does that mean its a saginaw???? All I know for sure is I have a 69 GMC 910 with a three on the tree with a 350 making power. also it doesn't say anything on the glove box build sheet. Is there somewhere else I can check???? Thanks |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Can you take a picture of the side of the tranny, particularly where the bolts are? The number of bolts and cover plate on the side of the tranny is the absolute easiest way to get an ID on a tranny, from what I understand. Alternately, the side view shape of the tranny is another good identifier.
When I wanted to know more about mine, i hit ebay and started searching. When that turned up nothing, i went to http://images.google.com and starting looking for terms like: 3spd saginaw 4spd saginaw muncie 3spd muncie 4spd muncie m20 muncie m21 You get the idea. Get lots of pictures of them that way so you can compare. Good luck. |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
okay heres what i got
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...1/IMG_1170.jpg http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...1/IMG_1169.jpg http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...1/IMG_1168.jpg http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...1/IMG_1167.jpg first time im posting pics hope they worked |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
You have a saginaw 3spd there....:crazy: L
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
That would be a Saginaw 3spd. Has the same linkage mine had for 3-on-tree too. Pics:
http://www.satellitehead.com/gallery...album=6&pos=20 Click on the 'forward' button a couple of times and you will confirm for yourself. I don't think Muncie made a 3spd, did they? If you need a replacement, the one in those pics is up for grabs if you wanna come pick it up, just give me a couple of bucks and it's yours. It was rebuilt within the last 10k miles, according to the guy I bought the truck from (sure shifts like it was). EDIT: PS - I believe that is the synchronized one that came out in '69 also. Diff't from the one in 67-68 from what other members have told me around here. |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Here is a good Tranny ID chart that covers most 3, 4sp and autos, from the hurst shifter website:
http://go.mrgasket.com/pdf/trans_id.pdf It shows a muncie 3 speed that is very close to the saginaw. |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
That is a killer link! PDF saved!
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Okay im going on the terms that it is a Saginaw. So today i went to the Gear Center in Edmonton and asked for a rebuild kit. Buddy said he would call me when he could find a location and price for it.
shifty i might have to take you up on that offer and take that tranny off your hands I like to thank you all for your help and i will keep you all posted on how it turns out |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Look at the bolt pattern on the side cover. If that Mr. Gasket chart is correct, it looks more like a Muncie.
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
I can take pics of mine tomorrow morning or nite and post them for you as a comparison just to be sure. I will be very surprised to hear mine is a muncie.
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
now that i taken another look, i think jimfulco might have somthing there! Plus look at the rear extension of the case. It has the same taper at the top on the Mr.Gasket muncie and my 3rd pic.....So could it be (that is if the mr.gasket page is right) that it is a munice????? This if freakin CRAZY!!!!
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
I had originally posted that it was a Saginaw immediately after you posted it, but took it off because I had doubts. I'm still having a brain fade because I can't remember which one looks like which. I just took my Saginaw out on Sat. too.
I just compared your pics to mine. I know mines a Saginaw because I replaced the Muncie that was original and it had 4 bolts on the side cover. |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Both of those trannys look like muncies to me. I have a saginaw in the garage I could take pics of if that would help any. The key is that the saginaw has one bolt in the center at the top of the sidecover and the muncie has three in a row at the bottom. The muncie is a stronger trans.
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
1 Attachment(s)
Ok, you're right Green Machine. After what you mentioned with the center bolt, I had to look at mine again(shown below). Sure enough, my Saginaw has the center bolt and his doesn't.
It's a Muncie folks. |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
The 3 forward bolts on the side cover are spaced different, also the saginaw has 3 bolts up the side of the extension housing. Definately a Muncie.
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
After comparing to the pictures in my 1969 Chevy Truck Chassis Overhaul Manual, what you have is definitely a Muncie.....
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
So, I have a muncie also? That's really confusing, because everyone here told me I had a Saginaw before.
So, Muncie made a 3spd? How much is this thing worth? |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
hey dudes!!!!
Im now about 95% sure that it is a munice and here is how i come about thinking that way. I ran through the gears and figured out ratios on my tranny 1st--> 3:1 2nd--> 1.75:1 3rd--> 1:1 I looked in the owner's manual and it listed the ratios for the muncie and saginaw as follows: Munice 1st gear ---->3.03:1 2nd---->1.75:1 3rd---->1:1 Saginaw 1st gear ---->2.85:1 2nd---->1.68:1 3rd---->1:1 so to me it sounds like i have a munice from what the last few people have posted and the way it looks with the gear ratios... i would say i have a muncie. What do you all think???? |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Okay now have bad news ..... so i went back to the Gear Center in Edmonton and told them what i thought was a signaw is really a muncie...so buddy there says no problem i will look around for the parts for a muncie rebuild ....
He just call me and said he cant find parts anywhere for the muncie !!! -->Shifty i think this thing might be worth something ----->Anyne know where i can get the parts for this tranny |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
They aren't worth anything because of the non-syncro 1st gear. They aren't known for their strength like the 4speed version is either. I had one listed on here for about a year and finally sold it locally for $35 through CL.
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Brad i do believe that it has a syncro first gear and with my luck it will be worth less then a signaw oh well im still going to keep it even if i have to pay alot for it to be fixed
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
i swear the first gear was synchro'd on mine. i never had to double-step the clutch and i couldn't shove it into first gear without depressing the clutch pedal. i believe those are two signs of a synchro'd tranny, eh?
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
My original '67 trans was definately a non-syncro 1st gear. I HATED that transmission and broke it twice behind my I6, but maybe Muncie went to a fully syncro 1st in later models. He did pull it out of his '69 I believe.
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
i was told my '69 was also. something about how if first gear was synchro'd, it must be '69 or older was also mentioned in a previous thread.
I'm gonna hafta go look at mine here in the near future. |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
On that Mr. Gasket link there is a picture 341 chevy transmission. That is likely the trans that Brad had, it is not a muncie or a saginaw, it is a chevy trans. They are very weak, weird internals, and non sysnchro low and the were used thru 67. 68 and up should have either muncie or saginaw unless swapped out sometime.
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Green Machine, except for that long tailshaft housing mine looked similar to that. But that tailshaft housing is confusing me if that's what I had because mine was much shorter than that. That drawing could be misleading and out of perspective. My 'Muncie' definately had 4 side bolt covers, was original to the truck and had a non-syncro 1st gear. I hope we can get this all straightened out once and for all because I just sold this and I'd like to inform the guy if I mis-stated what I had.
This is a weird thread- it used to be so cut & dried figuring out what was what on here, lol. Now we're all second guessing ourselves, lol. |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
10-4 on that. Yep that pic had a weird long tailshaft. I still would bet money yours was the little light duty type. Used from about 55-67 iirc. Long distance troubleshooting can be very tough sometimes. But I reserve the right to be wrong too :o :o :o
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Hey Guys
Does anyone know where i can get a rebuild kit for the muncie 3 speed??? I been looking all over the E-net and cant find anything Shifty ... right now it looks like i might be heading out your way if i cant find a kit Thank Guys ....you have all been a big help!!! |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Oh - those numbers on the side of it....
On the tailshaft: 3911984 GM 5 On the non-bolted plate side: GM 2 E271 8987948 (B987948? 3987948?) On bolted plate side: GM2 3952648 E271 Tag on bolted plate side: 3968081QY (396808IQY?) And one last tidbit of info: This SOB was wound the hell out in 3rd gear when hooked up to my 3-on-tree. I could only do 65 with it running 5k RPM at 65mph with my 3.73 gears. I hope this helps? All the numbers I am looking up online keep saying this is a Muncie 4spd, but ... I don't believe it. Would the shift linkage linkage have prevented me from hitting the 4th speed? |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Jason, it doesn't makes sense that you were wound out in 3rd gear with a 3.73 rearend UNLESS this was a 4 speed. On a 3 speed the 3rd gear is 1.00:1 and you'd only be doing around 3000rpm at 65 with a 3.73 rearend.
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
I should clarify :) It "felt" like I was wound out around 5k RPM. I definitely could not go faster than 65 in the truck or it sounded like it would blow up (3spd+that tranny).
I looked at all the Muncie 3spds, my side cover plate doesn't look like any of them. I actually can't find a dang cover plate that looks anything like mine and the one above - the muncie and saginaw that look alike have one bolt in a high middle position - like the one with the side cover off that you posted a pic of above. however, neither of these two trannies have that. i'd love to know what that tag means on the side of mine. i feel like that is some RPO code or some other indicator to tell what the heck it is. |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
With respect to your trans... that is definitely Muncie as many have stated previously. The fastest way to ID them is the 2 top bolts for Muncie and 1 bolt top center for a Saginaw. Is the Muncie tougher ? Many people think so but they don't bring much when compared to the Saginaws.
I am an auctioneer as well as a fire fighter and we just completed our first racing auction last weekend. We'll be doing several of them throughout the Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas region in the coming months. We sold 3 speed Saginaws at auction for as much as 100.00. The Muncies brought a max of 50.00. The Saginaws are very popular iin the dirt track world and finding those without broken "ears" is what makes them so valuable. There are some racing trans companies out there who will pay 100.00 flat for any Saginaw with ears intact without regard to the inner workings. Hope this helps you decide not to throw those old " bad " transmissions away. Dean |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
What is an "ear"?
And, by all means, which Muncie is this? Like, what is the model # on it? How many speeds is it? Any other info you can provide? |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
The 'ear' is the part that bolts up to the bell housing.
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
Wow, trying to get a definitive answer (model # of pictured trannies above) is like trying to find out how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop. :haha:
I can't find a model number and the side plate doesn't match the bolt pattern of any Muncie I have ever found anywhere on the internet. |
Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
:hmm: Betcha it's a 351 Muncie. It should have a syncronized first gear. Look at the spacing of the shift fork shafts and the extra cast bosses on the cover plate.
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
The bolt pattern is roughly the same, but the drain plug and the side cover is a diff't shape than what is pictured in the Mr Gasket PDF....linked in a post above.
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Re: is it a muncie or saginaw
S=Saginaw, M=Muncie
SM, is this not Sginaw/Muncie? |
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