Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

OK guys,

I think I am figuring this thing out. I started a thread somewhere else and found out this is where I need to be. No sense repeating everything. Here is where I started:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=320776

I will give a quick review here to get anyone caught up

Keep on trucking...

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Goodbye Long bed, Hello Short Bed,

I am going to bite the bullet and do it. I have had a 1970 C10 long bed for about 6 years. It was giving to me by my father in law. Every time I look at it I wish it was a short wheel base. Sorry lwb lovers. It has been great the few times I have needed to move someone's couch, but for me, the swb's look so much better.

I love my truck! It is nothing special other then the fact that it is mine (and free). It runs great (350 SB & 700R4).

I have read all the articles and I am going to do it. (cut the frame). I am starting this thread for two reason.

1.) The threads by other guys like Lewis Fabrication Design, Inc. have been invaluable. I have learned so much and I am so thankful, I guess this is sort of my way to “pay it forward”. I don’t think I will add much but maybe I will inspire another person to dive in and enjoy this great hobby.

2.) Secondly, I think this will help me a little with the accountability and motivation to keep working. I am not good at “finishing the job”. That has been my biggest fear, is that I would cut my truck in half and then it would stay that way for a year.

Well, I will post some pick and update the process along the way.

Thanks for all the encouragement guys!

First of all if you are wanting to convert your lwb to a swb, check out these threads. The will have all the details, no sense repeating everything here.



http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=223158

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=123624

Here are a few pics of what I am starting with. Like I said it is nothing fancy just a good ol truck. The good looking pic is what I am shooting for.

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Here is what I did yesterday.

1. Unbolted the bed and removed it. It had 8 bolts in it and I had to use a cut of wheel on 6 of them. The were so rusty the would not budge, even after soaking them in liquid wrench. This was easy and I plan to buy new bolts anyway.

I uses LFD.Inc "one man cab and bed lift" that I built. I would definitely recommend it. I did it all by my "one little man" self. Well maybe not "little" 6 foot 2 and 255 lbs. I will definitely have another person help when I put the new bed on. It is hard to raise and lower the hoist and hold the bed straight.

2. Next I cut off the front bed mounts. They won't be needed when I shorten the frame. They came off very easy. I cut the head off of the rivet and then drilled out the top. Once I drilled into the cab mount, they popped right off.

Here is a little trick. I filled the cap of an quart of chain saw oil and dipped the tip of the drill bit in every 20 seconds or so. The rivet drilled out like butter. I plan to do the same thing with the rear cab mounts when I remove them.

Here is another trick. Cut off and drill out the back rivet and then use a hammer to knock the bed mount around and you will have easy access to the front rivet with a cut off wheel.

Removing the bed ~ 2 hours (rusty bolts)
Removing the cab mounts ~ 30 mins

Set up and clean up ~ 2 hours (I hate that!)

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

I need some help with this question:

The front rivet on the front bed mount actually goes through the frame to the trailing arm cross member. I don't think it is really needed but I thought I would just weld a top on it after I cut it off to remove the bed mount.

There are several cross member rivets loose. I thought about welding all the cross members to the frame. I saw this on a Trucks TV show and they said it will help to "stiffen" up the frame. I would not do it to the tranny cross member obviously, but would like to do it to the trailing arm one, rear shock member one and the one in the front of the truck right under the radiator.

I know it would make it really hard to remove them if I ever needed to, but when would I ever need to???

What are ya'll thoughts on that. Any reason why I shouldn't do it?

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

This is gonna be a sweet build.

Like I always say "Longbeds are best"

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

I'll be following along. I Love the orange and white truck you're basing yours off of so yours should be sweet. :metal:

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Thanks, I thought since I got it orange and the wife and kid's like it orange, I would stick to it.

This color scheme is the best orange look I found. I looks kid of California surfer cool to me. I will probably go with the big wheels (18-20) but I really like the corvette ralley look. I have found them in 18. It will be a little while before I commit to any rims.

First task, ... cut the frame. I hope to do it next week.

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Thanks for stopping by my build. Looking forward to following along with yours. Good Luck!

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Hey Vex even though we are doing similar projects, I think that you will be done long before me on this one. I am going to cut my bed in half as in the low buck build but I need to spend time and money on making it worth driving first. It's got a Th400 and 4:11 gears right now and the 8 mpg is making it not fun to drive. I plan on putting a 700R4 in and converting the 8 lug to a 5 lug and dropping to a 3:55 gear ratio. I should be cruzing on the freeway at 1900 rpm instead of over 3000, should make a huge improvement. Also want to convert to disc brakes as well, all that will cost a bunch and it will still look pretty close to the same as it does now. I do plan on buying drop spindles so that will help the look, and will probably convert to trailing arms around that time also.
Looks like you had a rough time figuring out the rules, but I think that your build is worth more than a few roadblocks, good to see you took it all in stride and are still posting. Excited to see the progress.
Mike

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Mike,

Thanks for the encouragement. Yeah! I am excited about posting my progress. It helps motivate me to keep working. You have a sweet ride as well!!

I am on the slow plan too. The reason I have decide to cut the frame to make it a short bed and not just use the SWB frame I have already is that this truck is very road worthy. The 700R4 makes it a sweet cruiser (I would definitely recommend it). I roll down the highway doing 75 mph and about 1900 rpm. I actually checked the mpg's one time and got about 18 on the hwy.

I have manual brakes but a strong leg. I do have power steering though which is nice. It drives great, starts up every time and I would drive it anywhere. No A/C though which is tuff in Atlanta, GA in the summer. (I used to live in So Cal and I miss the weather).

I thought it would be easier to just cut this frame on this truck and throw on a short bed rather then transfer everything over to the other frame. I plan to do drop spindles and disc breaks eventually. I have complete 1967 front clip (brand new and in the box).

Cutting the bed sides like "low buck" doesn't look too hard but just a lot of work. I am sure you will be fine with the welding experience you have.

I am a little worried about my welding skills and welding a frame. I have done patch panels and sheet metal but never a frame before. I am going to take my time and go slow. I don't want the truck to break in half when I am driving down the road.

I look forward to following your build and seeing it progress. Let's keep up with each others builds and share ideas.

Vex

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

When I cut the frame I will do it like this...

I saw a Trucks episode on TV and they beveled the welds and also used a fish plate. I bought the "frame stiffeners" from CCP and they are 14 inches and go inside the frame. I plan to use those and no fish plate.

http://www.earlyclassic.com/tech.asp...No!-Shortbed-3



I plan to do the 12 inch "z" cut on the frame. I was going to do the 90 degree cuts in the corners because I have to cut with a sawsall.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

OK,

I had the day off and worked all day getting ready to "do this". I have to admit that I am a little nervous about cutting the frame tomorrow but I am going to do it.

Here is what I did today:

1. I removed the bumper and cut the 8 inches of the back of the frame.

2. Welded the second set of bed mounts to the frame. The rivets were loose and the mounts would flap up and down. I know I could have drilled out the rivets and bolted them down. of just welded the rivet. However, I thought it would be a good chance to practice my welding on the frame for when I cut it in half.

3. The I removed the break line, moved the fuel line, dropped the drive shaft, and painted and marked the frame so I will be ready to cut it tomorrow.

4. Then I unbolted the rear cab mounts and removed them. Wow, this was a lot harder then I thought. I cut the top off the rivets, drilled them out and hammered an pried like a mad man. The little pry bar in the picture worked the best. I would hammer it between the frame and mount and then yank with all I had. I was really wishing that I had a compressor and a air chisel.

All and all it was a good day. My 2 1/2 year old son helped out with the measurements so I am sure they are "spot on"! Haha

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

More Pics

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

It won't let me up load pics for some reason?

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

I see some...try resizing them or putting them on photobucket or similar and linking them.

Btw...good to get them started early...my 4 year old daughter wants to help me shine up my truck when it gets to that point. She will be getting the first ride around the block (after I check everything out on my first drive)

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

nice build...what are you doing with the bed you pulled off?

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

;)

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

I may not be the best to answer this, but nobody else has.
I see no reason not to weld up the rivets where you cut the heads off or the crossmembers. It should make it more rigid and when guys build custom frames, they are welded everywhere with no rivets.

What size welder and is it arc or mig? 200 amp arc/stick is generally suggested for welding the frame splices together (for good penetration). We have used mig successfully on these, just make sure you get good penetration.

I like your truck, keep up the good work.
Lee

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

I had good results drilling into the heads of the rivets and then using an air chisel to pop the heads off. Took the air chisel and put a punch attachment on it and stuck it in the hole I drilled and those rivets will fly right out. Ease up when they are almost out or they will shoot out pretty hard :).

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Sure Dave rub in the fact that you have the comp and air hammer set up. He wished he did but got it done none the less. I started the same way but now I grab the Plasma, slice the head off, burn the center out and tap it with the air gun and Bambi it is all done. For the 12 rivets in the trailing arm cross member on the 4dr Tahoe project it took about 20 min to get them all out.

As for the trailing arm cross member rivets I would not grind the heads off and then weld them in place. I would leave them as they are and just stitch weld the cross member to the frame with 1" of weld then 1" of space then 1" of weld and so on. As for the one rivet in the cross member/bed mount you can just put a grade 8 bolt and call it done. Unless you are planning on a real high performance build I would not weld all the cross members for two reasons. 1 it really is not needed unless you are planning on real tight 1/8" body gaps and 2 unless your frame is DEAD LEVEL when you go to weld it up you can end up putting a permanent twist in the frame because they are designed to twist with the ground and suspension changes.

As for the Z cut they say it is best to radius the corners and not have sharp angles. From what I have read they say since the weld on the frame will be the stronger point (if done right) that any stress will follow that weld as the frame twists. if you have a sharp angle that stress and run down one weld and when it hits that sharp corner it want to keep going causing a stress crack. When the same thing happens with smooth curves the stress follows it like a well built roller coaster follows the tracks with out de-railing.

You also mentioned about beveling the welds but I am sure you meant to bevel the frame cuts before welding it up RIGHT;) You want to grind both sides of the frame cuts so when you slide it back together it makes a V in the gap. What this does is increases the weldable surface for a stronger weld.

Kevin
LFD Inc.

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Sorry, didn't realize you didn't have an air chisel or compressor. I don't either really, but I have access to one where I work on my truck at :).

If it's gonna be too difficult shortening your frame the way they did it in the pics above you might look at Rocks Low Buck build. Pretty sure he just 45'd his and then reinforced it. Should make it pretty simple for you. Otherwise I would be doing someone a favor that had a plasma cutter :).

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Well...

I just checked my thread and saw your advice, however, I have been working all day on my truck. I already did the "Z" cut with the 90 degree angles. In hind site, I wish I would have done the 45's because it has been a lot of work doing the "Z" cuts. Grinding all the edges and what not...

The worst part is when I put it all back together I now know the frame is not square. The guy I got the truck from hit a guard rail with it and I am going to have to square it up before I weld it back together.

I plan to do fish plates and the frame supports so I hope that will be enough.

Thanks for all your help guys.

vex

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

The Long Bed is gone!!! I sold it.

I cut the frame and welded it back, so it is now a SWB. I am working on getting everything buttoned up and and safe. I will post pics soon.

It was a big challenge and project and not over yet but I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for all those who have helped with encouragement and advice!

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Nice work so far. Keep up the good work!

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Vex,
Just wanted to say that I think you are doing a great job with this build. There are many complexities involved with this project and it is comendable to even attempt such a huge undertaking. Looks like your son is enjoying the process as well, these are the things he will remember for the rest of his life. Are you going to switch to a one piece drive shaft or just shorten the two piece shaft.
Mike

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Mike,

Thanks for the encouragement. The quote at the bottom of your entry says is all. It has been a lot of work and I am learning a ton! I am working on getting everything back together and safe!

I have a one piece drive shaft from another 70 C10 SWB. I have not completely installed it yet but it looks like once I change out the transmission yoke it is going to fit perfect. That is good news!!!!

I also need to refit the break line and do a few more things before she will be back on the road. I hope it will be soon. I also plan to clean up the entire back half of the frame and suspension with some GUNK and a wire brush, then shoot it with a coat of rattle can black before i drop the SWB bed on it. I bought all new bolts.

Pics coming soon.

Vex :)

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Here are some pics.

I still have a few things to do before it is "road worthy", but it is 90% done.

I need to get some drop springs for the back because it is way to high.

Thanks for all the help from you guys!!

Vex

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Great job, so was it out of square bad and was it alot of work finishing the z cuts. Cant wait till you get a test drive.

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

This post and the above pics don't seem to get along together.

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Trucks looking good so far. Cant wait to see it finished.

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Looks good, Now you have all kinds of experience for the one you have been dreaming about. I am still thinking about what to start first. What I need to do, is carve out some time to start working it. My question to you is; would you ever do a mod like that again?

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

I meant to say "now it is a SWB". I fixed the post. Sorry for typos :)

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Mike,

Thanks for the note. Yeah I did learn a lot! And "yes" call me crazy but I would do it again. Here is what I would do different:

I would realize that it would take more then 2 days like I originally thought. Expectation may not be everything but it sure is a lot. I thought I was going to be able to do it in one weekend and it took me about 5 days all in all, over about a month. Part of that is that I had to make several trips to the store for things like grinding disks, bolts, etc. The other reason it took so long was I have never attempted something this big before and I tried to really take my time (and still made a few mistakes). Now that I have done it once, I am sure it would not take as long, and I would definitely do it again!

My advice to you bro is "jump in" it was a lot of work and a few times I said to myself "What was I thinking." But...WOW is it rewarding to finish the job. I have walked out in the driveway several times and just stared at it and felt proud. I love the SWB trucks so much and for 8 years I have dreamed about having one, so now I have that "new truck" feeling even though it is the same truck I have had all along. Like I said, I am proud of myself. I made some mistakes but that is how I learned. Thanks for your help and advice. I will keep putting pics up and stay in touch.

I have a friend who used to paint cars for a living and now works for an auto paint supply company and he is going to paint it with me and teach me as we go.

Vex

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Yes it was a lot of work finishing the z cuts.

It was and still is a little out of square. It was before I started and still was when I finished. I guess that means I did it right, because it was the same amount out of square as before I did the mod.

The truck hit a guard rail on the front driver side fender before I got it and the driver side frame rail is pushed back almost an inch farther then the passenger side. If you look at the driver side pic you can see the bed gap between the cab and the bed is a little off. The passaenger side is perfect.

The truck drives great. I have done 80 mph in it and is drives straight and does not have excessive tire ware. I have put close to 80k miles on it since I have got it 8 years ago, so I know it drives good. Since I made it a SWB I have driven it about 20 miles and up to about 45 mph and it rides pretty much the same as it did. It is a little bit bumpier because of the shorter wheel base but still straight as a whistle.

What I plan to do is take the bed off, loosen the cab mount bolts, loosen the trans cross member bolts and the radiator support bolts (basically every bolt that attaches to the frame, even the motor mounts). Then I will anchor the passenger side frame rail. Using a 4 ton come along to pull the driver side rail forward. I will try to pull it about a 1/2 too far. Then I will tighten everything back down and release the "come a long" Then I will check all my measurements and check for squareness.

If that does not work, then I will unbolt everything again and pull it again and then weld the rear spring support cross member, the trailing arm cross member and the front cross member that is under the radiator support, bolt it all down and check it.

If that doesn't work then I will just forget about it. Like I said, it drives straight with no tire ware and from what I have heard from most people, these trucks were never perfectly straight from the factory. A 1/2 inch out of squareness is within tolerance by most peoples books.

What are your guys thoughts on this?? I love hearing from other people on the board.

Vex

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Here is a rough time line for those who are interested:

Day One - Preparation (8 hours)
I removed the long bed. There were 8 bolts and 7 of them had to be cut off. I am pretty sure they were the original 39 year old bolts. A cut off wheel and a “saws all” did the trick. I used a “one man cab and bed lift” that I built and an engine puller. Then I pressure washed the frame. This made the rest of the job much cleaner and easier.

Then I drilled out the rivets and removed the front bed mounts that are not needed. Cut off 8 inches on the rear of the frame. Put the frame up on level jack stands, dropped the drive shaft, remove emergency break cable, remove the rear break line and wiring harness, and unhooked and plug the fuel line. Then I unbolted the rear cab mounts, jack up the cab about 3 inches and placed a 2x6 on the frame to hold the cab up so I could cut the frame.

I also had to remove the entire exhaust system. The mufflers were right next to the frame where I was going to cut it.

This took about a whole day because things always take longer then expected and because I was keeping an eye on my 3 year old son during most of that time. He thought he was working on the truck and dad was helping him. I also was not trying to hurry but just enjoying the day as I worked. One guy who really knows what he was doing could probably knock this out in about a half day if he did not run into any problems and worked fast.

Day two – The Big Cut (8 hours)
This was the point of no return. I marked the frame buy painting it primer gray and then used a sharpy. I did the “z” cut right under the cab. The cutting only took about 30 minutes with a good saws all, but then I had to dress all the cuts and clean up all the area that I was going to weld. This took a good hour or so.

After cleaning everything up, I got some ratchet straps, “C” clamps and vice grips and pulled everything back together. It lined up pretty good but I had to play with it some and then measure over and over. This is where things really got slow. It took about 30 mins to pull everything together and then about 30 mins of adjusting and measuring. I had to do this about 3 or for times before I felt that I had it as straight as I could get it. I also used a “come a long” cross tied to the frame rails to try to square it up good. So by the time I did this and tacked it back together with a mig welder another day was gone.

Day Three – Buttoning in All Up (8 hours)
I started by measuring everything again and believing that all was as good as I could get it, I committed to welding. This was a long slow process of welding, moving location, welding, waiting on my welders duty cycle, etc. By the time I did all this and the fish plates on the inside of the frame rails another day was gone.

Day Four – Boxing and Do Dads (8 hours)
After touching up the welds a little more, I they begun the process of fitting in the “frame rail stiffeners”. I bought them from CPP and they were great! They are solid and fit “tightly” in the frame rails. I had to really work to get them in because they were so tight. A 4 pound hammer came in handy. It took about an hour for each one to get it in and fitting right. About 30 mins each side prepping the rails for welding as well. I had a friend with more welding experience come and weld them in good and tight for me to make sure everything was good and tight. Again, we had to wait on my welder a lot and that took most of the day.

Then I hooked back up the break line and bleed the lines.

Day 5 – Done
I hooked back up the fuel line, cleaned up the frame a little more and put the new SWB bed on. Swaped out the yoke on a single drive shaft and installed it. I had to drill out the rivets and remove the old center support for the old two-piece drive shaft.

Installed new mufflers and tail pipes, cranked it up and drove it around the block.

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

looks good, did u cut the bed down also...

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

No, I did not cut the bed down. This was a SWB bed I bought about a year ago. I have seen the posts where people have cut them down and that looks good but is a lot of work. I got this bed for practically nothing so I went that route. It made things a lot easer as well.

Vex

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Thanks!!

I used a one piece from another 1970 C10. I did not have to shorten it. It fit perfect and works great. It came out of a SWB with a 3 speed and a I6 motor. I have a 350 small block and a 700r4. I fit perfect. Man I love Chevys.

When are you going to start on yours? I can't wait to see it!

Vex

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

What are your guys thoughts on my "frame straighting" idea?

Vex

Re: Project Big Orange (70 to 67 ~ long to short)
 

Your idea on straightening the frame is right on.
The problem is "anchoring" the side you don't want to move.
I have chains anchored in the slab of my shop. they work great on jobs like this.
You may have to use other vehicles to move and keep yours from moving.
For instance, park a pickup in front of yours and put the passenger side you don't want to move up against it - in the area of the bumpers right in line with the frame. Then take another pickup and push from behind on the drivers side. Just a thought, never tried it that way.
Another way my be to use a "cable puller" and hook it diagonally across the passenger front to the drivers rear frame area and pull it into square. Never tried this one either and you may have already thought of a better way.
With every thing loosened up, this should move reasonable well. I think you may have to weld to keep it that way.
Hope someone else will jump in here, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.
Good luck and keep us posted.