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learned about viscosity breakdown today
So I was driving my new 350 down the road to gas station after adjusting my rocker arms and was just enjoying the afternoon when i big rig in my lane slowed down and I was going to miss my exit off the interstate so I kicked her down alil to get by and make my exit. well i made it but by the time I hit the exit stated hearing an unpleasent sound and smelled burnt oil so I shut it down promplty and rolled into the station. I popped the hood and has smoke comeing out throught the breather cap in my valve cover so I emediatly unbolted and pulled the cover off and inspected the rockers. everything was fine nothing broke or loose. I pulled the oil dip stick and the oil looked was extremely thin for lack of a better word. well called my dad and turns out the put realyl light weight break in oil in the motor and it was only supose to be good for about 100 miles then needed to be changed. Well I was unaware of this tho I should have known. We towed it back to the house and I am changing oil tomarrow morning. Going with a heavier oil im thinking 40 or 50 wieght witht he heat here in TX would be fine.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
You usually don't break in a 350 with "really light" oil. That's for lawn mowers.
Some 10w30 and a bottle of zinc additive will do just fine for most builds. |
Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
You can go straight 30 weight. I've used 20-50 wt for old engines.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
Yeah a 10w 30 or straight 20 for break in, shouldn't need anything lighter than that.
for me it's 30 weight in the winters, 40 in spring/fall, and 20w 50 or straight 50 in the summers. |
Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
yea its staying around 90 and 100 daily here so I was going to use straight 50 and see how she does
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
Potential for damaged bearings/crank/rods/cam/lifters. After you change the oil/filter, might want to run a couple hundred miles and change again. How's it sound when started cold????if 100* temps are considered cold.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
lots of people from around here. 100 plus all this week
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
well i changed the oil today and unfortunatly I have a knock now. :( It not a solid knock like a rod or piston hitting. Its more of a hollow tinny sound. I pulled plugs and no damage to them. THought it was a blown header gasket but when i go to drive it. It has no power and the sounds gets louder and meaner. Now the part that is stumping me is that its fine at idle just a lil rocker tick like its out of adjustment tho I have adjusted them three times in last 2 days jsut to make sure. I dont hear the noice till it comes off idle. any throttle at all and i can hear the knock. Like i said its a hollow tinny kind of sound coming from the middle to rear of the passanger side.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
irishman999 and pseudopimp nice to see someone form my nexk of the woods we should get together once i get the mistess fixed. DO iether of you know about any truck groups or meets here in ELP or there in cruces?
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
you know now that i think of it when i was sdjusting the rockers today i might have noticed that one of the rockers were sitting at a slight angle. not sure but I will pull the cover again tomarrow and take a closer look. if it is that would mean a bent push rod right?
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
Im not sure of any square body clubs in Cruces, there should be one because there is quite a few nice chevy trucks. Im currently not in Cruces as of last week when i quit my job there and im just kinda hangin out in ruidoso, my truck is there in Dona Ana still.
I was told once when the chevy small block loses oil pressure the first thing to get ruined before you shut it down is the pushrods and rockers. Are you gonna change all yours out? it sounds like your on the right track. |
Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
im going to pull alll my push rods and see if any are bent and check all my rockers real close and also my screw in studs. hopeing if its anything its just a bent push rods that simple and not really that expensive i really dont want to have to pull the intake manifold and swap lifters.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
Good luck man, hopefully thats the problem!
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
ok well today i finally got out to look at the truck. pulled the passanger valve cover and started the motor to see how things were moving. Took me a few minutes of looking then i saw it. number 4 exhaughst rocker was not pushing the valve down. was just sitting there tapping the top of the stem. so after enjoying that i finally found my culprit I pulled the rocker arms and push rod out and checked em. rocker arm is good push rod is straight and not broken. so I start thinking lifter collapsed or broke so I looked down inside and the keeper was still in the top of the lifter and didnt look shinny or mashed in so now im leaning towards something to do with the keeper and lock on that rocker actually sitting alot higher than the rest of the rockers so I think it might have been over tightened and was not letting the lifter do its thing. Im going to try a few tricks to see if the liofter is moving the pushrod up and down and if so the im going to try and get the lifter to take its prime again.
if the l ifter is shot i should be able to fish it out throyught the head right? i really dont want to pull the intake maniforld unless i absolutely have to, and were can I order just one lifter? |
Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
Sounds like the intake needs to come off. how much are new lifters?
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
Are you sure it's not a weak spring that is causing the issue? That would be the easiest thing to check before the intake would need to be removed.
Ratty 46 |
Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
not sure how a weak spring would effect it. The spring is not even being depressed. the issue it the rocker arm is not pushing the valve down
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
well just went out and slid the pushrod back into the head and i can push the lifter down by hand with the pushrod with out much resistance. so the lifter has colapsed and i think the internal spring is broke so looks like im calling speedway and see if iI can get the lifter replaced under warranty and start taking the top the motor apart.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
The lifters are hydrolic oil filled right?
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
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Ratty 46 |
Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
THey are Rhodes anti pump ups. it is the only one that I can manually depress by pushing on the back side of the rocker so it is deff the one that is not pumpin up anymore. It doesnt have any resistance left in it.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
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torn it down today and got all the lifters out. as you can see from the pictures I found the problem one haha. Turns out I really over tightened them when i kept adjusting them. I just HAD to try and make it perfect...should slap myself. the bottom of the lifter can wore off to the point that is ate it to the internal oiling hole so it could not pump up. I checked the cam lobe and its still there thankfully and there was not a bunch of shavings in the oil or anywere else so must have gotten it out when i changed the oil after the issue accured. I have the new ones soaking in oil over night and ill put it all back together tomarrow early afternoon and see how she sounds then. I will adjust the rockers once and leave it alone.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
Your lucky you didn't round the cam lobe. Good luck!
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
yea i know haha still not 100% on that i cant really take the cam out and look at it right now so going to go back together and then well find out. If the lobe is rounded how would I be able to tell? what will the engine be doing and how will it sound? thanks
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
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When you soak the lifters overnight, are you using a push rod to pump them up prior to install? I usually soak them too, but once they are submerged in oil, I take a push rod and slowly push on the tops of them, you will see air bubbles come from the lifter, it doesn't take a lot of pressure. I then let them sit overnight and repump then again just before installing them, they will get to the point that no bubbles come out of them. I sure everyone has opinions on how to do this, this is just the way I have done it with no problems. |
Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
ouchhhhh! well glad u figured it out!!! sir, may i lend some advise, spare no exense on the valve seals, those tiny donuts they ship /w/ a kit are junk! spend 35 and get quality that will last 20yrs++
good luck! |
Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're gonna have to pull that engine and go through it. Any metal shavings you have are now distributed throughout your engine. Even though your cam lobe is still there, it's damaged - bet on it. You'll need new cam, main and rod bearings, the ones you have will have metal shavings embedded in them. Main and rod bearings will now start grinding on the crank.
I've seen similar scenarios several times and it pretty much always ends the same way. You can bandaid it now with new lifters, but the contamination by metal particles will continue to cause problems until they're cleaned out. TIP OF THE DAY: Step up to a hydraulic roller cam. |
Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
You have a bad cam and a motor full of metal,The oil filter is AFTER the oil pump so I'm betting a bunch of metal has gone through the oil pump.....I know thats not what you wanted to hear.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
yea im alittle conserned about the cam also. I got it all put back together today and its running just as it did when we first built it but I will end up pulling the cam here in a few months I want to change it out anyway the thumper sounds fun but I think I want to go roller. I only drive it maybe twice a week if that so should be fine till i can pull it out and go back through it. Thanks for all the help yall. Im just happy to have her back running good again.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
as far down as that lifter is...I'd bet there's not much left of that cam lobe.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
its not missing or anything like that and its seems to have plenty of power throught the rpm range.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
You might have gotten very lucky.
Run a good filter, that'll help more than anything. |
Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
If you run that engine like that. You can forget about reusing the bottom end when you switch cams. You will be doing a complete rebuild. That cam is going to continue to wipe out. Its trashed regardless if the valve is still moving some. Your just asking for a much bigger problem.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
It will pop out the exhuast or kind of cough cough through the carb at certain RPMs. Sometime you won't even notice except, like I said at certain speeds. I a 69 Longhorn with the 402 and hit had a flat spot but you could only tell it at 45 MPH. It would just pop out the exhaust. Like, pop.....pop.......pop,pop. Then when you'd speed up some it would quit.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
cableguy I agree that i need to get the cam changed and will most likely be swapping out the main and rod bearings at the same time, just dont have the means to do that at the moment. Going to have to pray it doesnt tear up the crank or pistons till I can do it. I only drive it maybe twice a week if that usaully about 50 miles amonth
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
Anytime there is bearing damage there is crank damage. The tolerances are designed for oil to flow through not metal. As soon as the bearings get torn up a bit the clearances open and oil pressure is lost because the oil is trying to fill a bigger space. The oil just cant do it and the bearings will contact the crank.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
put some strong magnets on the bottom of you oil pan....and hope they do the trick.
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
ok i will deff try the magnet trick never thought of that. I know I will be changing main and rod bearings when i swap the cam I have already accepted that
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Re: learned about viscosity breakdown today
...at the least...and just hope you don't wind up with crank or rod journal damage.
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