Berthas Cummins Build
 

This is the build of Berthas.

At this point I am well underway on her.

I bought the 1971 Chevrolet in February 2010. I started collecting parts and pieces while I let her sit until about June due to the cold weather and a busy schedule. Once summer hit I started on her full out to create what I have so far today. I will post the specs and the pictures I received before I bought the truck for this first post and I will update here and there as I have time until we are caught up to present day.

On to the good stuff:

Drivetrain Specs:

1994 6bt Cummins
NV4500
NP205
D60/14 bolt

There are lots of plans for many different areas on the truck that I will cover as I go along. I have collected more parts than I even know that I have right now so I just have to wait to til I get to certain points to actually start putting those parts together to create a truck.

Here are some base pictures to give you an idea of the truck as it sat in the previous owner's possesion. Don't mind the creepy guy in the fourth pic......:lol:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...8091336-01.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...8091336-00.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...8091335-00.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...2101406-00.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...2101405-00.jpg

Re: Berthas Build
 

I drove the truck onto the trailer with the 350/350/205 that was in it and she seemed to run great. I thought about adding a few things to get her road worthy but it just wasnt worth it to me so I just decided to dive in and start the disassembly. It had a 2 inch body lift on it to help clear the supposed 33 inch sidewinder mud tires that will be no longer. I will most likely run a 1 inch body lift to help with clearances for the new drive train.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0726.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0728.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0746.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0765.jpg

And then I found these...

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...0424002216.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...0424002214.jpg

I started on the rebuild of the D60 and 14 bolt and between work and waiting on parts it took about 6 weeks and a small fortune to take them from that ^^^^^^ to this vvvvvvv:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0052.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0066.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0064.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0065.jpg

While I waited on parts for rebuilding the axles I decided to "make" some parts on the waterjet for the axles in the meantime:

U-bolt plates:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0017.jpg

Shackles:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0015.jpg

Steering arm and springless kingpin cap for the 60:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0014.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0063.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0014.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0090.jpg

In the middle of building the axles and all of the other parts for them I decided that it would be nice to have a good, solid table to work from. So I built one. The frame of the table was completely overkill being out of 2x4 boxed 3/16 wall tube, but I had the material left over from another project and I will have this thing to use forever. I cannot even explain how much it has helped me having this table for this project. The table is not finished yet as I plan to add brackets and shelves for my welder and other tools, but I could not have built it at a better time:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0005.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0006.jpg

Re: Berthas Build
 

Looks like you've got a good truck to start with, best of luck on the build!

Nice work on the axles too!

Re: Berthas Build
 

Looks good so far! Cant wait to see the cummins swap!

Re: Berthas Build
 

Looks great! Wish I could find a Dana 60

Re: Berthas Build
 

Thanks for the good words everyone!

Re: Berthas Build
 

When I finished the table and painted the axles and parts I put the axles under the truck and attached them with the ubolts and ubolt plates that I made. I threw on the wheels and tires I got for it and this is how she sat for a bit while I went to work on the removal of the Cummins and NV4500 from the Dodge.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0779.jpg

Once I removed the engine and trans from the Dodge I pushed it outside, set the Cummins aside, and started on the conversion of the nv4500 from 2wd to 4wd. This was a bit of a process because my original plan was to just take all of the parts from the 2wd mainshaft and transfer them to a stock 4wd mainshaft then add the 4wd tail housing and run it that way since the trans seemed to be in good driving condition when it was in the Dodge. I then decided to order the upgraded mainshaft so that I wouldn't have the 5th gear nut issue to worry about. Then I decided that I might as well do it right and do it once and do a full rebuild so that I wouldn't have to worry about it for a long while.

Here are some pics of the rebuild:

2wd nv4500

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0809.jpg

Pulling off 5th gear with a tool I made

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0813.jpg

Empty Case

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0817.jpg

Sea of parts

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0815.jpg

Finally finished and buttoned up

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0118.jpg

Re: Berthas Build
 

Looks like that table has been put to use yet again! You have a great build going on and i'm looking foward to following it.

I am totally envious of your shop!! I'm so tired of working in the dirt.. and now the cold, it showed last night..

Re: Berthas Build
 

After I finished rebuilding the trans I set it aside and started working on the frame so I could get the the drive train together to start mocking up the motor mounts, trans mount and cross members. I removed the original Chevy motor crossmember, trans crossmember, and transfer case crossmember and then welded in a new temporary crossmember to keep the frame shifting to a minimum. From there I started filling in holes that I will not use in the engine and trans areas of the frame. I will fill the rest of the holes later. After the holes were filled, I tacked in some boxing plates in the motor mount and trans mount areas so that I could get the drive train in to start mocking the mounts for everything.

Original engine crossmember
http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0826.jpg

engine crossmember out and original trans and rear crossmember
http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0845.jpg

Original crossmembers out and holes filled
http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0851.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSCN0847.jpg

Boxing plates tacked in for mock up
http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0149.jpg
http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0150.jpg
http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0154.jpg

After getting the frame boxed enough to mock up the driveline mounts I set the drivetrain between the rails and threw the cab on its mounts to start the process of figuring out the final location of the drivetrain.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0155.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0157.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0159.jpg

Here is how she sits right now:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/IMG_0160.jpg

Re: Berthas Build
 

Oh yeah, I cannot tell you how much I have used this table for rebuilding, welding, fabricating, and just anything I need the surface for. It was well worth it to build the table before I got too far into the build.

The barn is not heated so I am no stranger to working in the cold!! And it is definately not fun!! I am working on sealing up the open spots in the barn so that I can run a heater of some sort this winter so that it will be more comfortable to work out there. Its a 60x40 steel barn and I am not sure what the best and most efficient method would be to heat it.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Re: Berthas Build
 

this is awesome. keep it up.

Re: Berthas Build
 

what size of lift and tires did you go with? You make your own motor mounts, have any pics? I like where you are going with this project. Is the transfercase from the donor dodge truck?:gmc2:

Re: Berthas Build
 

The lift is 4" Tuff Country front springs and a 4" blocks in the rear under the massive spring packs. The tires are 375/60/R16 if I remember right. I do know that the standard size of the tires is 33x15.50xR16.

I have not made my motor mounts yet. I plan to once my mid mount A/C setup gets figured out so that I can get it away from the frame rail on the passenger side. I will also fab new transmission and transfer case cross members as well when I figure out the final position of this massive drivetrain.

The donor truck is a 94 Dodge 2wd. If you didn't notice in some of my posts, i converted the 2wd nv4500 to 4wd. I bought the 29 spline Dodge np205 from a member on another forum. I haven't gotten into the 205 yet to rebuild but I am hopeful that it will be solid.

Re: Berthas Build
 

Not much of an update but I figured I might let everyone know whats going on at the moment.

I am waiting to find a supplier for the mid mount F6 or 7 or 800 A/C and alternator mount so that I can get started on the fabrication of the engine mounts, engine cross member, trans mount, trans cross member, and transfer case cross member. I am ready to do it, I just need the components in their final positions so that I don't run into unexpected interferences if I were to mount the components after I finalized all of the mounts and cross members.

I would also like to get ahold of a hydroboost unit to see if I will have any interference between it and the air intake plenum.

I will update when I get these figured out and start the fab work hopefully in the next week or so.

Re: Berthas Build
 

I'm not understanding your need to find a supplier for the water inlet housing (a/c mount). Is it that there are no Cummins dealers near you?? If that is the case, I may be able to help.

On the hydroboost unit, I recommend a unit from a 88-99 C/K truck (not the R/V old body style). The mounting plate is an easy adapt to your firewall. Take it off, drill two holes, move the lower studs to those holes and you're done.

Re: Berthas Build
 

You might be just the person to talk this over with, and I meant to ask you about your setup. Would you mind listing the specs on the components you used and a ballpark price you paid for them if you dont mind.

Well I thought I had a dealer lined up on 4btswaps with a used mount and new compressor and alternator but I haven't heard anything from him in over a week so I'm not sure what's going on there.

As far as the hydroboost, I noticed that you used a unit from a 99? C3500? And I was planning to source one from a similar application but now that I know an exact range of years to look for it will make it that much easier. How did you go about running and matching lines and fittings between the dodge power steering pump and the chevy steering box and hydroboost unit?

Once again your trial and error saves me a ton of time and hassle!

Thanks again moses!!
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Berthas Build
 

Oof, I will have to deal with that ogre in my file cabinet labeled "Suburban" to get that information. Keep in mind, the only parts I bought were the water inlet housing itself (a/c compressor mount) and the upper alternator bracket. I tried buying the lower alternator mount, but it still hasn't arrived. I had to make my own lower hose fitting and I bet you will have to also. You're not going to like this, but, you will need a water outlet (thermostat housing) that points straight up and the corresponding thermostat and seals. The water outlet you have will get in the way of the upper alternator bracket (can be modified), but the biggest issue is the forward part of the housing gets in the way of your new belt routing. It can be routed around it, but you will end up with, maybe, 90* wrap on at least two high drag components. I thought this was such a bad situation that I sold my housing, seals and thermostat like you have on your motor and went with the straight up one (after trying another one also).

Gee sir, I have money that I want to trade to you for those items you have for sale. Can I please give you my money?? Please?? Nice.

The lines were a real bish. If I had it to do again, I would cut the upper fittings off and have a hose company make the lower ends with a higher quality hose in between. I can give you numbers on the hoses and as soon as you try to make them work you will inderstand why I say that. That being said, if you can get hoses out of a wrecking yard like the ones that I have, grab them and use the booster ends with new hose and make some new lower fittings. This is a REAL fun part of the project.

The Dodge power steering pump is not a Dodge power steering pump. It is a Saginaw pump manufactured by GM. Yup, the same GM as made the hydroboost that you are going to get and the steering box you have. The pump and hydroboost will have o-ring fittings. Your box has inverted flare fittings. You can have lines custom made with o-rings on one end and flares on the other. You can also get a steering box out of a GM straight axle 4x4, 1981 and newer to install. It will bolt in and have the superior sealing o-ring ports on it. That is what I did on mine. I found a virgin steering box on a 90 V20 Suburban and rebuilt it.

I'm envious. You have someone to ask questions to!!

Re: Berthas Build
 

I believe I understand what all it takes for this setup to work properly. The vendor that I had lined up said that either he or Cummins offers a kit to run this setup. This included the inlet housing/compressor mount that bolts to the block, an upper and lower alternator mount, a new straight up upper water outlet neck, a new lower water inlet neck that turns 90 left out of the housing then 90 down(wont work), a tensioner and tensioner bracket, as well as a new compressor and alternator. The package of all brand new components came to a total of a little over $1100. I believe that I would be able to use everything in the kit except for the lower inlet neck which I could use a neck that just comes straight out of the housing similar to the one you ended up going with. I should be able to use the lower tensioner bracket and tensioner depending on how much the bracket tries to interfere with the frame as I can just fab a notch into the frame since it will be fully boxed and will not compromise the strength of the frame.

It is definitely more than I wanted to shell out for this setup and he supposedly has his alternator and custom made to a one wire 22 si higher output and his compressor lines custom made to a specific orientation as well. I have no experience with this setup to know if any of this is needed or if either of these components are available off the shelf which is part of the reason I asked for the specs for your setup and how much you had wrapped up in it.


Yeah, I'm not sure what is going on with this. He was usually pretty good about answering my PMs but just stopped responding for some reason. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he's just busy or has a personal issue to tend to or something along those lines but I sure would like to get a move on this......


I have a Parker Store nearby but I am not sure if they would mess with these fittings or not. Its worth a shot to have high quality hoses that fit correctly I suppose. I'm not sure how I will give them something to make them off of short of taking the box, pump, and booster to them if I don't have the hoses to show the ends and also don't know the orientation of the hoses. Maybe that will become more apparent when I have the components all present and together. Search may help a bit too.:crazy:

As for the steering box, I will not be running the stock 4wd unit. Instead I already planned to run a 2wd 81-87 box for crossover its splined input shaft that will mate up to an xj steering shaft to keep everything tight and do away with the rag joints.

As you should be!!! Your help and experience with all of this is great but I also enjoy talking to you and others that have been down many of the same roads that I have been and will be. I know I could get by without having you and others to talk with and ask questions but it sure would be a whole different ball game than having access to pick your brain about all of this. I'm not sure that's a game that I want to play!!!

Re: Berthas Build
 

I'll check on what I have available for numbers etc. I got some deals on my parts, so my prices will not be relevant. The alternator that I bought from a local truck dealer was one wire right out of the box, so I don't think he is really doing anything for you on that one. I think most big truck alternators are self-energizing. There are a couple choices on compressors, so you will have to figure out which one will work. I reused my stock tensioner, but I relocated it.

3285102 might be the thermostat housing

3930822 is the connection, water inlet

3906697 are the seals for this part to the motor and to the hose fitting (x2)

3910495 M12 x 1.75 x 30 (X3) Bolts to retain housing to block

3900679 M10 x 1.50 x 80 (X3) Bolts to retain hose fitting

3930838 Bracket Belt tensioner

3924026 Belt tensioner asm

3904446 M10 x 1.50 x 70 Tensioner bolt

3918275 Alternator Pulley

3930820 lower alt mount

3920862 Brace, alternator (forward/upper bracket)

Sanden 4667 compressor. This is the one that I used. There is also a unit available off of a Class 8 Sterling tractor that has hose fittings coming out of the side of the rear head instead of out the rear like the one I used.

The bolt number are for reference only (you will need these bolts to mount this stuff, but buy them somewhere else). I have a belt tensioner mounting plate here if you decide you need one. I'm not going to use it. Look real close at how I ran my belt. It wouldn't surprise me if you end up with something very similar by the time you are done.






There are only two different sizes of fittings. 16mm and 18mm. It is readily apparent which is which. Stop by and talk to your Parker store and discuss what you are doing and have them give a few suggestions on how to get the desired results. This is why having the ends off of some donor hoses may help--may not though.

Pump pressure hose fitting: 16mm
Hydroboost from pump: 18mm

Hydroboost to steering box: 16mm
Steering box from Hydroboost: 18mm

steering box return: 16mm

Get some extra o-rings. I use fuel injection line o-rings. Standard Motor Products is a number SK26. Very good thing to have around when you have that many fittings in service on one vehicle.

Make sure that xj shaft will talk to your steering column. The xj shafts that I have seen use a double d shaped femal end on the column end--not a splined female like your current intermediate shaft has.




Hopefully yours willl take less time than mine. That list of part number took close to two weeks to figure out because I had no engine serial number to reference for parts. Nothing Cummins gets done withour a serial number or CPL number--NOTHING. There is no "I need the part that comes on all the Dodges that looks like this and does that" Relply: "Got a serial number??"
Luckily I found a guy who was a glutten for punishment and had the patience of a saint and he searched Cummins for many days digging up all the numbers and parts. I did what I could via the internet, but he really save my bacon on this part of the project.

Re: Berthas Build
 

Thanks for those part numbers. They worked out great and I have some of them on order from my local Cummins dealer rather than working with an online dealer. This should speed things up a bit. In fact, I think that my parts from Cummins will be in this afternoon.

I am having a set of motor mounts/cross member cut out by a member on 4btswaps that I will be able to modify to fit my frame and stock 94 motor side mounts as well as the upper alt bracket notched to run the stock 94 water inlet and a lower tensioner bracket that is made to clear the frame a bit better. He does some pretty incredible work from what I can tell and sometimes my time saved from having all of the trial and error is worth more than the money it would take to just have someone cut them out for me.

I will try to make some time possibly Wednesday when I am up that way to stop in and see what they can offer for my situation.

I bought an aftermarket floor shift column to replace my stock auto column and it has the male end similar to the double d female end of the xj shaft. That column with an 81-87 box should work perfect with an xj shaft if my research was all correct. :smoke:

The folks such as yourself that has provided all of these part numbers for these never ending rare parts allows me to spend more time out in the barn working on this beast rather than in a computer chair researching the crap out of the smallest details. This has already helped greatly as I think I am further than I ever thought I would be at this point and hopefully my research will contribute to other future projects of many others out there.

Re: Berthas Build
 

Draw me a picture of how you are going to route your belt around your accessories. When I was trying to use the Dodge water outlet like you have I could not route the belt in such a way to get an acceptable amount of wrap on the driven components--thus my vertical water outlet. On this same thought train, I have not seen anyone use the parts I used in conjunction with the water outlet you have route the belt in such a way to get good wrap on the components. Where the water outlet comes through the alternator bracket that you are having notched, it gets in the way of a straight shot off of the fan hub to the alternator. The belt can be re-routed, but it leaves the alternator and a/c compressor with what was 90* or less wrap. One dude over there couldn't figure out why his belt squealed when his a/c compressor engaged. That sucks.

Re: Berthas Build
 

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...0beltroute.jpg

1 10270 Generator Support Strap
2 8A357 Water Inlet Support Bracket
3 8A616 Fan Clutch
4 8620 Drive Belt
5 2N211 Hydro-Max Pump (with Hydraulic Brakes Only)
6 3D673 Auxiliary Drive Pulley (Hydro-Max)
7 8620 Drive Belt
8 8501 Water Pump
9 6312 Crankshaft Pulley
10 - Generator Mounting Bracket (Part of 6010)
11 - Water Inlet Bracket(Part of 6010)
12 6B209 Drive Belt Tensioner
13 19D629 A/C Compressor
14 10300 Generator

This is the belt routing for an f800 that uses the mid mount a/c setup. Number 3 will be a bit lower in my application.

The belt will come from the crank pulley, over the fan pulley(number 3 in the diagram), down to the water pump pulley, up to the alternator, down to the a/c compressor, over the tensioner and back to the crank pulley just as in the diagram. I asked about the coverage on the compressor in particular and the one guy I talked to didn't seem to think it would be an issue and that it ends up wrapping the compressor more than it looks. It does not look like it will be the case for me but the only reason I am convinced that it will is because it is what they used from the factory(unless they didn't account for the wrap on the compressor pulley) for this model truck(f800) and I could not find in any searches where anyone had a problem with the belt screaming when the compressor clutch engaged.

What do you think about this? Did you ever get a chance to see this diagram?

Re: Berthas Build
 

Well, I guess if it came from the factory that way it should work. I never found a diagram showing a belt routing with those components, so when I was engineering mine (from scratch--no diagram) I did not like the 90* of wrap that I was getting on the compressor, but after seeing this I guess it is ok. I just like to see more, personally.

Before you do anything, hang the water inlet on the motor and make sure your tensioner mount/plate is going to fit you frame rail. I bet there is going to be interference. I hope not, but I think mine got all over the frame rail. Thus the reason I still have one....

Re: Berthas Build
 

Ok, the more I think about this, the more that is coming back to me. I could not put a tensioner on the plate down there because of framerail interference. With that, take a look at your pic and without a tensioner right there the belt doesn't even come close to 90* of wrap. No good.

So, nothing changes for you. I guess I just wanted to prove that I can still remember things that happened before yesterday. Check that tensioner mounting plate for clearance and hope for the best.....

Re: Berthas Build
 

I mentioned in an earlier post that one of the mounting brackets I have someone cutting for me is a tensioner bracket that is clearanced to help clear the frame rail. It was easy to miss so you may just have over looked it in my post.

That makes a bit more sense why you did not go with this setup then if you could not make the tensioner work there as there would obviously be very little contact with the compressor pulley. I agree with you that 90 degrees still seems to be on the light side but the only reason I am trying to make this setup work is because of the diagram I found showing that it was done this way from the factory.

Even if the tensioner bracket does come too close for my comfort (in my case anyways) I will have the option of notching the frame where it is close and box it in with the rest of the frame and still not take away from the strength of the frame. This is one heck of an obstacle that I think I have figured out for right now........ And it feels pretty darn good!!!



Along with that, all of my Cummins parts came in yesterday for the mid mount a/c setup and I was able to pick them up at lunch. It was a pretty penny for all of this stuff but it really wasn't as much as I would have thought for all that I got in return.

The compressor will be here today(out for delivery), the alternator should be here today or tomorrow, and the motor mounts/crossmember, upper alt mount, and tensioner mount will all be here friday or early next week hopefully in time for christmas time off of work to get this thing moving once again!!!!

Re: Berthas Build
 

Bah, I'm sure I read it, but it was more than a few days ago, so all bets are off on my retention.

Good!! Now get the stuff put on and post some pics. There are far too many words in this thread lately. More pics!! I want to see how this all works out.

Re: Berthas Build
 

Alright, time for another update.

I received all of my parts from Cummins so here they are:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/cd4103fc.jpg

And here they are all layed out:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/3741face.jpg


And here they are mounted on the engine:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/e217a6c6.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/73ba89ed.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/84721119.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/90b62f53.jpg

I have a couple of other things happening with this project at the moment as well. Since I have the A/C compressor relocated, I can go ahead and figure out the hydro boost unit as well as the radiator so that I can get this dang drivetrain mounted in the frame once and for all.

I received my 1" aluminum body lift from ORD last week which will allow me to get an accurate feel for where my cab/firewall will rest in relation to the bellhousing/back of the engine.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/668c6b05.jpg

To go with the finding the clearance of the back of the engine and the firewall/trans tunnel, I am also in the middle of some cut and fab so that I can mount my 2nd gen Dodge radiator in my Chevy core support.

This is what I started with(minus the two small pieces missing from the top of it)

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/fd67de84.jpg

The 71 core support had braces that were perpendicular with the bottom of it as well as flanges that the stock radiator rested against that angle back at the top which in turn angle the stock radiator back about 5 degrees or so. I needed to cut the perpendicular braces to make room for the Dodge radiator but I left the flanges that angle the stock radiator because they do not interfere with the mounting of the Dodge radiator.

Cut a little more.....

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/b8997fa4.jpg

I welded some 3/16 plate to the locations that the bottom "feet" of the Dodge radiator will rest into. It is not easy welding 3/16 to that sheetmetal!

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/5f6894ac.jpg

I drilled a 1" hole in each of the mounting pads for the rubber feet of the radiator to rest into. I also created an extension of the support where I had the two sections cut out at the top of the core support. These will be for the two top mounting tabs to have a solid place to mount. They will be finished to create a stock look.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/133ee3f7.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/8ac47450.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/367c59d6.jpg

Here are a couple of looks to get a feel for the way the Dodge radiator will mount in the 71 core support. It will be angled back as the stock radiator was although at a bit less of an angle.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/e4268d87.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/5243fff5.jpg

I was planning on using the stock 2nd gen Dodge intercooler as well but it has proven very difficult to get a clean appearance fit to the core support out of it. I will deal with this once I get the past the radiator mount, hydroboost, and engine mounts finalized as it is not critical to the placement of the drivetrain at this point.

I also just received my hydroboost unit out of a 1991 C3500 as well as my 2wd steering box out of an 80-87 square body to run my crossover setup. I was able to get everything off of the 91 that was related to the hydroboost, including the lines the Mosesburb and I were talking about. This should make having custom lines made a bit easier to give them the ends and the lengths and have the hydraulic specialists make them. I will have to get the hydroboost mounted to the cab and get the cab set in place once again to check the clearances of the hydroboost and the intake plenum above the injection pump.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/3d19aefd.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/e3cd050b.jpg

Mosesburb, did you invert the mounting plate on the hydroboost so that it would line up with the hole in the firewall for the brake pedal rod? It looks like if I did this that it would line up better so that I wouldn't have to cut another hole for the rod. I just took a minute to look at the mounting of the hydroboost, so I could be missing something. Here is what I am talking about; you can see the rod hole in the firewall is towards the bottom two studs where as the rod on the hydroboost unit is towards the top two studs:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/9f48de85.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/o...f/a5f9aa4e.jpg

Re: Berthas Build
 

Nice progress!

Did you have to cut that notch out of the frame? Can you loosen that nut on the back of the hydra boost and flip over that bracket?

Re: Berthas Build
 

I like the core support!! I like how you modified it. It looks like it should work well. On the pieces that you added to the top of the core support, you added a piece of steel that drops down to the original top of the core support. These end at the top of the c/s. If possible, can they be made longer and tie into the rolled edge?? That would add some nice structural integrity back into the area you cut up.

It looks like you are going to have a fun time getting your lower hose out of the confines of the frame rail. I may have to re-visit that area on my truck. It looks like I need to add some room for the hose, but there is no room to add.....

On the hydroboost, yeah, knock the studs out and flip the bracket. One set of bolt holes will line up, the other two you will mark and drill and you're done with the plate. The hole in the firewall will have to be opened up a few thou to fit the nut that holds the plate on h/b. I put some RTV on the plate around the nut to seal it when it is installed. Don't use too much or you will never get it off. Trust me on this one--seriously.

So where is the tensioner bracket??

Re: Berthas Build
 

No that notch is the remains of a flange that was built into the frame on the 67-72 models. I don't have a picture but they should be all over the board, unless someone is willing to post one here.

That is what I plan on doing with the hydroboost. Mosesburb did this with his Suburban. See ^^^

I think I know what you are talking about. I had to think about it a bit but I believe I have an idea......

I noticed that it was tight on yours but I think that I will be able to recess the top of the frame rail at the neck similar to the way I was going to for the compressor as well as the tensioner bracket.....

haha Yeah I figured that this is what you had to do to get it to work right. I promise I'll be easy on the RTV.

I have both the tesioner bracket as well as the tensioner and they are happily bolted together but they like to fight with that frame rail so the frame rail will have to be boxed, recessed, notched, and/or persuaded out of the way so that they can all be happy.

Re: Berthas Build
 

FYI, for hoses there is the option of using adapters and then having AN lines made up.
here is one source for the adapters:
http://www.smileysracing.com/cat/vie...91783&pgID=859

they have the 18MM and 16MM adapters, I have used them with custom hoses many times before

However as stated before the ability to walk in to any parts store and get off the shelf parts is ......priceless.

Good luck and love the build

Re: Berthas Build
 

Thanks for that info rooster!

That is definitely a possibility at this point. That would probably be the easiest way out.

Thanks for the compliments too.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Berthas Build
 

Keep in mind if you go this route that you must use AN line with a teflon liner as the standard silicone/rubber liner will not withstand the max pressure for very long. Using standard silicone/rubber lined hose is fine on the return side, but not the pressure side. It will work on the pressure side for awhile, but not for the long haul. The teflon lined hose requires the high dollar (in comparison to standard AN hose) fittings with the ferrule that has to be inserted between the liner and the braided stainless. Like a thousand little pins draining the blood from your fingers, one tiny hole at a time.

Definitely a viable possibility. With all the crap I went through on mine getting hoses to work, I probably should have done this myself. I guess I chose that moment in the project to save a few bucks. Go figure. :lol:

Re: Berthas Build
 

What all did you have to do to get yours to work with stock hoses? If you don't think that it was worth it, I might just go with the AN hoses and fittings to save the aggravation.

Also, how did you figure out the correct length for the pushrod that connects to the brake pedal?

I got the hydroboost bracket flipped, drilled the bottom 2 holes in the firewall and the pedal assembly, opened the hole in the firewall for the retaining nut, and mounted the hydroboost on the firewall. Now I believe the only things left with the hydroboost is to figure out what I am going to do with the lines, figure out the right length for the rod that attaches to the brake pedal, figure out if the proportioning valve that came with this hydroboost unit will work for my application, and plumb all of my brake lines.

I think that I have a list everything if I don't end up trying to use stock hoses

If I go with the AN route for the hydroboost lines, these are the parts I believe I will need:

Adapter from 18mm w/o-ring to -6AN
Adapter from 16mm w/o-ring to -6AN
High Pressure AN Line from pump to hydroboost
High Pressure AN Line from hydroboost to steering box
Low Pressure Line(either AN for appearance or just rubber hose) from hydroboost return to pump
Same as above for steering box return to pump
T-fitting to join the two return lines

I believe that everything is there. If I am missing something feel free to post it.

Now I just need to source this stuff and figure out the right sizes for the return hoses and T-fitting. What kind of hose can I use for the return line and T-fitting?

I just mocked up my engine crossmember and motor mounts Tuesday night and I will begin welding them in tonight along with fabricating a crossmember to use with the stock transmission mount. Finally, no more blocks, jackstands, jacks, chains, or hoist locating it in the frame rails!

I will get pictures up when I am finished with the transmission crossmember hopefully tonight or tomorrow night.

Re: Berthas Build
 

It was a bunch of bending and un-bending of bends, tweaking without twisting and so on. Not soooo bad, especially knowing which hoses to start with, but not alot of fun either.

That is a really good question. I'll have to get back to you on that one--been too long.....

The prop valve should work. Plug one of the front output holes or plumb another line to utilize it.

You say you drilled two holes in the firewall. I drilled the other holes for the studs that stick out of the firewall in the hydroboost plate. IIRC, the lower holes would interfere with the column mounting bracket that bolts to the firewall. Maybe not?? Again, its been awhile.


You can use standard rubber AN line for the return hose, but the nipple in the hydroboost is not convertable to AN. You would have to machine the barb off of it and weld or silver solder an AN fitting on the nipple--*might* look goofy--might not though. The barb on the return line on the pump can be cut off and a AN fitting welded or silver soldered on. Regular P/S return line will be fine on this. Motormite makes a brass tee with three barbed nipples that can be use to tee the return line. Make the return from the steering box the straight through on the tee as it flows way more fluid than the return line from the hydroboost. All of the return line in this system is 3/8".

I would still consider having the hoses made up. You should be able to have them put the fittings and ferrules on the ends of your steel factory lines, buy approximately the right amount of hose, bring it home, mock up the lines so they fit right, mark the position of the hose to the ferrules with a Sharpie, remove everything from truck, take to hose making establishment and have them finish the assemblies by crimping the ferrules in the position you have them marked as. A little brake clean on a rag takes the remnants of the Sharpie off and you're done.


It sure is nice ot get rid of all that clutter around the motor so you can start adding all of the associated clutter of your own.

So, nothing tonight, that means the pics will be up promptly this evening, correct?? <winds up timer>

Re: Berthas Build
 

Sweet build! Signing up to see how to do my build.

Re: Berthas Build
 

I remember now. I called a buddy of mine with a 72 K5 and asked where his pedal sat static. I was going to put it on the rubber bumper at rest, but I had adjusted a brake pedal very high in a vehicle long ago and everybody that drove it complained, so I wanted this one to be in the "right" spot from the get-go. I have mine set right at about 1/2" off the rubber bumper. It still has good range of motion and transition from gas to brake is good--not too high (my foot doesn't run into the side of the brake pedal in transition).

As far as the rod goes, I took the rod that the hydroboost came with and cut the pedal end ring off of it. For the pedal end I took a 73-? female threaded booster rod end and bored it out to a slight press fit on the o.d. of the cut off hydroboost rod. I put it all in the truck, set the pedal 1/2" off the rubber bumper, marked the location on the hydroboost shaft, pulled it all out and welded it together. I'm not a big fan of welding on brake parts, but I figured the part is piloted into the female end and the weld will only be in compression, not tension and there will be no real side-loading. With that going for it, I decided that was my way out of that situation.

Really?? Cool, I can't wait!! :lol: Oh, wait, :yawn:

Re: Berthas Build
 

Ok, I will keep this in mind when I get to the point of finishing the brake system.


haha I have had multiple updates(not including as much of the tranmission crossmember like I'd hoped, but I did make substantial progress on it!!). But I have made progress despite being sidetracked by planning the wedding and shopping for a house that we have no intentions of buying anytime soon. :crazy: Any time that I do get to myself right now is time spent running out to the barn real quick to clean up or to see if something possibly got accomplished while I wasn't there! Spring will be here eventually and that is when the real work will begin. Last winter I didn't even have the motivation to turn a wrench let alone spend hours fabricating and making this darn thing fit where it shouldn't. So the way I see it, anything that gets accomplished in the winter in that freezing barn puts me that much further ahead than I could hope for in the winter to be ready for the real progress in the spring. Stay posted, the updates will come before you know it.

Re: Berthas Build
 

I've been considering boxing the frame on my truck also and i have a couple questions if you dont mind.

1. can you only box the parts of the frame that you did?

2. Are you going to seal the parts off that you boxed so that they dont hold moisture or leave them open on the ends?

3. how thick of metal did you use?

4. do you have any more pictures of the process?

Thanks
James

Re: Berthas Build
 

Not a problem.

1. I wouldn't. If only the parts that I boxed are done, it will leave the sections between, behind and in front of those areas weaker making them take all of the stress and forces.

2. I am going to seal it off as much as I can so that the only way that moisture will be able to enter the inside of the frame is if it is submerged. I am still going to try to prime and paint the inside of the frame and boxing plates but I am sure there will be some areas exposed from being burnt from the welding.

3. I believe it was 3/16".

4. I might have some more of the mock up process but you will see more of this when I pull the drive train and do final weld in of the motor mounts and the final weld in and completion of the frame boxing.

Good luck with your project and if you have any questions feel free to ask.