White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

Ok...so I knew I had a problem with smoke before, but now that I got the truck lifted, I wanna drive it, but don't wanna hurt it, so I'm trying to diagnose what's going on.

Specs...350 sbc (long water pump), hypertech dizzy, new plugs and wires, new valve cover gaskets, sm420, weiand intake, Holley 4barrel, hooker headers with true duals.

I start the truck and within a minute or two, the right header is noticeably hotter than the left, and the right muffler is smoking, but the left one isn't.

I sprayed around the intake manifold with carb and seafoam, no spike in rpm. fuel pressure is reading steady at 3psi at idle. I'm kind of stuck.

I don't know if it's a head gasket or not. Haven't noticed any leak in the coolant, resevoir still at the fill line, and the thermostat reads around 190 warmed up. But smokes like a pig out the right exhaust pipe. not using oil, and i freshly changed the oil 2 weeks ago. Pulled the dipstick and it's still super clean. Haven't used any additives other than a seafoam treatment a couple of months ago. Since then i've drained the fuel tank flushed the lines and am using new gas. I adjusted the float bowl fuel level on my holley today cause it was flooding out the carb, but i don't know why just one bank is smoking and the other is fine. or why the right side gets hotter than the left.

I started pulling plug wires and cranking over the motor to see if i could isolate a cylinder but smokes with each one of the plugs off. (i pulled starting with #2 cylinder plug cranked, plugged it back in and then did the rest on the right bank the same way)

Can anyone guide me in the right direction.

thanks, Jack

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

sounds like it may be actually running lean on the smoke side, check how the carb feeds the intakes, maybe one side stopped up?

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

Haven't done a whole lot of carb work...so what's the best way to check for this...just pull the air cleaner and look down its throat?
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Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

3psi fuel pressure at idle sounds low for a Holley 4bbl carb. I agree with the lean condition. Keep searching in that direction.......... I suggest you get the fuel pressure up to 5psi. Mine sits solid at 6.5 psi at idle.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

More than likely if it's whitish smoke it's coolant. It may be a small head gasket leak, intake gasket leak or worse a cracked head. The antifreeze in the coolant makes a lot of smoke so keep monitoring the fluid level.

I have also seen whitish smoke from additives and when a buddy poured transmission fluid into his carb it was sort of grayish, so keep that in mind also.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

Pull all the spark plug's. Lay them out in order. You can tell alot from how they look. If it's lean on that bank are all the plug's gray/white? Or only one or too. If you are burning antifreeze in that bank the plug's wii look clean like new. It will most likely only be one or two plug's. You can not tell by looking thru the carb if that side is plugged on the primary .All you will see is the shot from the pump.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

A Holley 4bbl carb needs at least 6psi of pressure to run properly. You're way lean. For my street rigs with Holley 4bbl carbs I use a Carter "street" fule pump. It pumps a constant 6psi with no regulator.

Gary

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

I'm working about 15 hour days for the next few days, then i'll have a few days off to take a look at it. But I always thought my carb wasn't getting enough from what my friends have said. I actually even cleaned the pump a while back, but made no differance in pressure. And i'm just reading that off the pressure gauge on the fuel rail before the split.

I'm interested in this carter pump...is that something i'll have to order, or will a local part store carry that? And Looking around the net, do you have a specific part number for a small block 350?

Thanks for all the help guys...Kinda new to carb tuning, so all this information is helpful and appreciated.

Jack

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

Is sm 420 manual transmission?

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

Yes its manual...so no Tranny fluid in the motor
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Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

I just did a little diggin' on Summit Racing, and it looks like Carter is no longer offering the "street" super pump for Chevy's. The offer them for all other GM brands, so I wonder if those still have the mounting flange like a SBC.

Just checked Jegs, and they offer it in a polished version for the SBC for $152 bucks! Yikes! :crazy: I only paid about $75 for mine about 6 years ago. If they stopped makin' them for reals... I'm gonna be pissed. I've been using those pumps for eons only becasue they pump the perfect fuel pressure for a Holley 4bbl carb without using a regulator.

The "strip" super pump os $85 bucks, but runs at 7 - 8.5 psi. So you'd have to run a regulator.

Gary

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

I've had a hard time finding the older Carter stuff these days. Seems like stores like Advance and Autozone sell Airtex/Master pumps now when they used to sell lots of Carters. Though I agree if you can find a Carter, use it. When I put the Street Avenger on my truck, I used a 80GPH Holley pump (PN 12-834) from Advance. Around $75.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

Edlebrock sells a performance pump around 120.00 that pumps a constant 6psi w/o a regulator...any of yall use this pump before? I'd rather spend the 120 on a regulated pump than buy an 80 dollar pump have to buy a decent regulator for about the same price or greater than the pump...plus adding a regulator just adds one more part that can go bad that I'll have to troubleshoot later.
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Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

your fuel demands aren't outside the range of a stock GM pump as is.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

Yes, I use the Eddy pump with Eddy carbs. They work best since Eddy carbs need slightly lower pressure and those carbs are very sensitive to pressure.

But with a Holley carb, the 80 GPH pump I mentioned above is a Holley part and should not need a regulator. It's designed to hook straight up to a Holley carb.

I also agree that you can probably get away with a stock 40 GPH pump, so one of the Airtex/Master pumps from Advance/Autozone might also work. Problem is their specs for a '69 350 say they put out 7.5 - 9psi. I'd be worried about that. You might have to search for different years 350 and see if one puts out the range you need. 7.5 psi is max for a Holley. Mine hangs around 7psi.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

I'll take a look at it...still shopping around a bit...but i must say that the 350 is not the original motor. I wish it was, but the casting numbers tell me that it's not...also investigating the vin# shows that it had the Iv6 so this motor i have in it, is stamped from 69-79. Wish I had more info on it, but i haven't investigated further at this point. I just want to get her running right, and am willing to try to get it all on my own. I really don't like taking my vehicles to anyone else, cause I don't trust anyone to work on my vehicles, so if at first i don't succeed...i'll definately go to the next step. Guess that's just part of the classic truck deal...I don't know the way it was kept, or what's been done internally until i find out for myself.

I'm an aircraft mechanic, so I would think this would be easier, but I learn new things every day, and makes me feel good!

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

So I went to the parts store yesterday on my way home from work...bought the holley p/n 12-834 w/o regulator...i'm gonna see how this goes. gonna install it either after work today, or tomorrow. found out my lower radiator hose has a huge leak coming off the water pump...(one of the universal hoses not a stock replacement hose.) looks like that's gonna have to be replaced) would you guys recommend adding a gasket sealer to the paper gasket that comes with the fuel pump, or just proper torque specs and the paper gasket? I'll inspect the pushrod as well when i change the pump.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

All I've ever used on a fuel pump gasket is Gasgacinch.

It's all I use on any gaskets to be honest. :)

Gary

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

ok...so now i've got about 5.5-6psi fuel pressure...threw in a new Holley 12-834 fuel Pump...still smoking. I adjusted the misture screws and it idles nicely now, but still smoking out the right bank heavy.

i looked at the headers and there is some liquid around the number 8 exhaust port coming off the block. Not sure what this is yet cause it's too hot to get a finger in there, but it's not dripping to the ground, so i hadn't seen this before.

I don't know if this is a carb issue, or that it isn't...smoke still doesn't smell sweet. But it's bellowing out pretty good. What would cause liquid to come out of the exhaust port? I mean could a leaky exhaust manifold gasket cause this. They are hooker headers

Also...when looking at the carb, what should i be looking for to see if it's too lean? Just doesn't make sense that the carb could be feeding one side differantly into the intake (just thinking of the physical aspects of the carb and the intake openings to the block.

Jack

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

pulled the number 8 plug...can't tell what the liquid was, but it's smokey inside the cylinder...I manually cranked motor to see if any liquid would come out, but it didn't...is it safe to turn the truck over with the plug out of the block? just wanna see if something comes out when i crank...i either want the bad news or the reallly bad news now. anybody smell the problem yet?

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

OK, now I'm worried that your problem might be more severe. Fixing the fuel problem was a certainty, 3psi was no good. But now we have to dig deeper. I'm a little stumped too since your original post mentioned that one header and muffler was much hotter than the other and that indicates lean. But now I question that.

Does the smoke go away when the truck warms up or does it continue? On a cool morning, just about any engine will produce reasonable amounts of water vapor until it warms up. It's especially pronounced on vehicles without cats. And can occasionally be uneven per side.

Once the truck warms up, hold a piece of cardboard about 2 inches from your exhaust pipe exit. Does this white smoke quickly condense into liquid on the cardboard? If so, this is probably coolant. And that's bad. Pull all of the spark plugs on that side. Tell us what they look like.

While you are at it pulling plugs, verify your firing order. And wire routing. Double check and triple check.

Lots of other ideas come to mind such as your intake, etc. We need to tackle these one by one.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

I'll do the cardboard thing now...and once the truck is warm, it gets worse...both banks did it at first only sputtering...then when the truck got warmed up, the left bank was clean and the right bank started smoking like a white bonfire.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

ok...smoke condensed to water and got the cardboard wet...pulled the plugs and they look clean. Now...i haven't had these plugs installed long...cause i just installed them about a couple of weeks ago or so before i started diagnosing the motor. I didn't keep the old plugs, but they didn't look clean like these. Firing order is correct as well (Plug wires are super long)

The PO did have water in the radiator...I didn't think anything of it. but I do know that people trying to sell a vehicle with a motor problem can somewhat mask a problem like this to the seller. I got a screamin deal on the truck tho, so i was expecting a little bit of work. just trying to figure out what that work is at this point.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

This is a shot of the wet spot on the header and block around the #8 plug
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...j/IMAG0894.jpg

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

As I mentioned whitish smoke generally is coolant or water. Since it's coming out one side only you have either a leaking head gasket, leaking intake or cracked head. From the picture you posted I'd go with the head gasket.

Either way you're going to have to bite the bullet and yank the heads off. Lots of fun these old trucks.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

Yup... that's either a cracked head or a blown head gasket.

Careful runnin' that engine. You don't want to hydro-lock a cylinder.

Gary

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

crap...LOL...i knew it was going to be fun...guess when i yank the motor, i might as well place it in the right mounting position on the frame...the person that put the motor in, placed it in the v6 position...hence the firewall being beat all to hell so they could clearance the distributor.

I know that there are some head gasket sealers that you can add to the motor for a temp fix, but what are the long term affects of these, and are there any worth using? I just need to be able to safely drive this truck to the new property (i'm having a house built and it will be done in a few weeks...new place has a shop...right now i'm working in a car port until my house is built).

Also i'm guessing that a long term affect of driving the truck with a coolant leak can lead to a cracked head, so Like i said...i just wanna be able to get it to the new place to either tear it down and rebuild it, or figure out if it's crate motor time

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

There is no bandaid fix for a blown gasket. Also a long term affect is what I mentioned earlier. Run it long enough to get water in a cylinder and hydro-lock the engine. Then it'll be a bent connecting rod or worse.

The heads need to be pulled and magnafluxed as well... just to be sure...

Gary

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

yeah...I know...and I really am not the type to mask a problem, cause I'm not building this for anyone except myself...and i want a sound motor and don't want to have to do all the machining and work later. I don't mind doing a head gasket, just don't want to have to pull the top off the motor out in the elements. Hence why i wanted to wait til i got to the new house.

I guess i can tow it up there on a trailer, just trying to figure out if there is another way around it. I have a 3 day weekend coming up so I might have the time and resources to replace the head gasket, but not sure what magna fluxing is? I would hate to pull the top off just to find out it's worse, but either way i'd rather know so i can prepare.

How long does a head gasket change take. I know i'll have to pull the top off. and it is lifted now, so it works with and against me LOL. more clearance to work, just more back pain.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

concur coolant or water bypass gasket

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

Back in my younger days when I was mostly broke, I would try these magical additives that claimed to fix anything from leaking radiators to leaking head gaskets. Problem is I never had one that worked for very long, if at all. Also, if you use too much of those stop leak sealants you may wind up replacing the radiator.

Re. the elements: One good thing about these trucks is the high hood. I once saw where someone had rigged a lean-to with 2x4's and a tarp over the hood. A neighbor bought a beach/lake tarp that he sets up when he works on his truck.

If in fact it is a head gasket leak you should be able to do the work in one day. Just get all the tools, gaskets, antifreeze and sealant before you start.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

so other than a torque wrench, what kind of special tools would i need? also, what hardware and other gaskets should i have to purchase. i would of course get a new head gasket...i would use gasket maker probably for the intake, and probably leave the carb attached to the intake, cause i'm trying to do this as fast as possible.

Also, i'd probably be picking up a head gasket from the local parts store...any brand proven to be better than others?

And do I need to replace the head bolts? I read somewhere that some head bolts are a one time use, whereas some bolts can be reused.

Thanks for all the help fellas...I do have a car port, and would probably do all this under it, if i can do it soon.

Jack

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

First, do not try to add snake oil products to the engine to seal the leak. All you will do is clog the radiator and heater core. Been there, done that, makes a mess of things internally. The only case where it might be justified is if you are planning on getting rid of the engine soon.

So I agree, fix it right.

I suggest getting intake and exhaust manifold gaskets as well. Definitely don't reuse your existing intake gaskets, it could be part of the problem. Look at the heads very closely once they are off. Look for any cracks. Also look at the head gasket for signs of failure, which would explain your problem.

There are a multitude of head gaskets available. Some swear by some brands over others. If I am in a hurry, I just use Felpro stuff. Their "High Perf" line is higher quality, and for a head gasket, that's a good idea. However, when I do head gaskets, I usually pay a little extra and get a gasket set/kit which will include the intake, exhaust, valve cover gaskets, etc. It's worth it to have everything you need and perhaps a few spare gaskets that you don't need.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

A standard set of tools is needed. I have 1/2 inch and 3/8ths but mostly use the 3/8ths set. The torque wrench is a definite and a breaker bar, if you need one, would help. I use the 3/8 ratchet and six inch extension for intake bolts and in some of the middle bolts a 9/16th swivel socket. Be sure and take pics, bag and label all parts, line up the push rods in a section of cardboard with holes and numbers to indicate location. Also, bag and label the bolts as to where they came out of as you remove them. And, label all hoses and connections. You'd be surpised how easy it is to forget where a particular bolt goes even after a few hours.

I've reused the head bolts with the Felpro head gasket and never had any problems. It's your choice.

Having a buddy help would be good. I have sat inside the engine compartment when I've done work on the engine in the truck before, but having someone to hand the intake and heads to is helpful.

Forgot... mark the distributor base to block so it can be reinserted properly and don't rotate the engine after removal if you can help.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

On a related note, let's say it is a cracked head----what would cause a cracked head?

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

I have done some minor engine work, just been a super long time...i'm talkin high school days LOL...I can tear apart a jet engine, but still for some reason, hesitate when it comes to my own. I'm not squirmish around it, just the way i've been. Like i said. I think this weekend i'll be able to get down and dirty.

Thanks for all the information guys. Maybe i'll have a buddy from work come give me a hand...my 8 month pregnant wife probably shouldn't be expected to help. Maybe i'll take this time to throw in an HEI dizzy as well.

I'll update once i've got it done.

Jack

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

Any cast metal (which heads are often made from, whether it be aluminum or iron) can crack. Many things can contribute: such as a casting flaw, fatigue from extended use, an overheat condition, water freezing in the block, over advanced timing causing too much pinging, retarded timing or lean conditions causing hot combustion, and the list goes on........ It's relatively rare, but given the fact that this forum has thousands of members, there is bound to be a few cases. I don't jump on the "cracked head" band wagon unless I have reason to believe it, such as a reported overheat condition. That is probably the most common way to crack heads.

I ALWAYS suspect bad heads when buying them used -- this is the case when you must be paranoid because there might be a good reason someone is selling "ran when pulled" Vortec heads for $100................ Chances are they ain't worth more than scrap. It never hurts to have a machine shop check them out. Most shops only charge a nominal fee to look for cracks. To be ultra sure, have them magnafluxed.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

^ used heads where you don't have a recourse like using paypal or a CC for a reversal is a suckers bet.

Any guy with a good set of heads, will have a friend want to buy them.

Just like dirt bikes n such, if its really in good shape and for a deal, a friend would of taken it first.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

I'll be posting up a bunch of pictures when i pull the heads off this weekend. I had to move the truck into the carport tonight to get it ready for the weekend. sputtered a bit and died a few times...starting to smoke a lot faster now after start up...not sure if this is just a head gasket or not, but doesn't wanna run too strong right now. and it has gas and good fuel pressure. not sure i got it tuned 100% but smelled like it was running super rich to me while i backed thru the cloud of smoke tonight. didn't run it for more than about 5 minutes once warm, but definately didn't want to perform at all. I normally start it out in 2nd gear going forward cause of the granny low, but i had to pump the gas pretty good in order to keep her running long enought to get it in place.

I'm gonna give the carb a bath and rebuild while i'm at it...not sure this is causing my problem, but definately not ruling it out.

My question at this point would be, if a head gasket is on it's last leg...is it likely that it will progressively smoke harder every time the engine is ran, and also, would that be the major cause of a huge plume of smoke?

I understand there are a lot of variables, but i've never seen this as bad as it smokes, and don't wanna rule out other options while i have this thing torn apart.

Re: White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!
 

Yes, it's possible on both questions. As the engine cools, it sucks moisture into the cylinder/cylinders. When you start the engine the pistons push the coolant out where it contacts the hot exhaust from the other cylinders causing the plume of smoke. Probably the reason it runs rough is because the spark plug/plugs where the leak is can cause a misfire if at all.

Originally, the reason the head or head gasket was suspect is the white smoke out of one side only. If it was gas contamination it would be out of both exhausts and the last picture you posted basically confirms it.