Project: Over My Head
 

Well, I've been lurking for a while and asking questions about bits & pieces of the project. Since I've been working on the truck a bit I figured it was time to start a build thread. First, a picture & a paragraph or two with the back story.
Here it is on the day I hauled it home: [IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8f2669d4.jpg[/IMG]
Back in '78, my girlfriend's parents bought this truck to get to work & haul firewood, construction supplies, etc. Despite constantly breaking down, leaking gas fumes into the cab (with both parents & 3 kids in it) and generally being under-maintained due to poverty the truck served the family well into the 80s.
Depending whose story you like better, it is suspected that my girl's cousin Vinca was conceived in the back of this truck. It's total unreliability caused more than one marital dispute, though, so as with most things it seems to balance out pretty neutral.
Eventually Steven, girlfriend's father, upgraded to something newer and the truck got parked for 10 years or so until his son Jeffrey, girlfriend's brother, put a camper on it got it running and used it for a Burning Man rig, like so [IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...126_144051.jpg[/IMG]
Not long after the truck takes on this role, though, the #2 conn rod bearing goes out and makes a helluva racket. Jeffrey's mechanic says it will be a $2500 rebuild, at least, and he decides to sell the truck.
Girlfriend asks me if I want a project. 6 months later, here we all are taking it home:
[IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...34159690_n.jpg[/IMG]
About me...
I'm a professional mechanic who thinks mostly in practical terms. I was raised by a computer dork / born researcher(mom) and a hot rodder / electrical technician (dad). All of this together means that I want a reliable, powerful car that doesn't burn too much gas. I'm not afraid of wiring and I try to do my homework before I start buying parts / getting my hands dirty.

Now, on to the plan.
2001 Vortec 4.8 w/ 4L60E, Camaro LS1 fuel system, hydroboost brakes (disc / drum) and stock height suspension. Long term, might try to do a truck-rated IFS swap. Eventually, it will get body work & paint done. The first phase, where I get it running, is being done at work during lunch breaks & evenings. So I'll try and get it out of the boss's way without too much drama.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

So far I've stripped the drivetrain, the wiring, the steering box and most of the mud the grease and the grime. Like so.[IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...88708394_n.jpg[/IMG]
Now that all that has been done, I'm waiting on my CPP cross members to get the motor & trans bolted in to place. From there, I start wiring.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Oh - and as for the title?
Girlfriend and I are talking marriage and kids, I can only *just* afford to fund this project at its most basic level, I'm 2 years into my career track and just finding my stride, I've never taken on a project on my own cars bigger than changing a water pump & I don't know body work from back pain. So... I think it fits :)

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

your truck looks like good tin, that is a good start.
if you can *just* afford a basic build, i'd suggest throwing a junk yard motor in it and drive it.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Looks like a nice truck to start with and sounds like a good plan.
Kim

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

@Ogre - the Vortec *is* a junkyard motor.
I considered going SBC & leaving the rest stock for now. I talked to a handful of car-hobby lifers, though, and they were unanimous: pick the engine you *really* want and get to work. No sense doing more than one motor swap, they said. So here I am.
Sold the I-6, all 9 pieces it was in, today. Snapped an engine bay photo while I was at it. I'll figure out how much of the firewall to smooth out once I have all my wires run. The battery box will probably get replaced but I doubt I'll move it. Still have to remove the clutch pedal assembly, though.
[IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...029_130442.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Well, good news and bad news. The good news is that I went to SEMA. The bad news is that while there I missed delivery of the mounts I'd bought from CPP, so the drivetrain install is delayed a week or however long. Oh, well: worth it.
When I get the parts I'll get to work & take pictures along the way.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

FedEx delivered my engine stand today. I assembled it on my lunch hour and got the 4.8 bolted up to it after work (I got off early and had some time to kill).
After that, I labeled every wiring connector that was still in place & pulled the harness off of the motor. [IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...41284762_n.jpg[/IMG]
With help from my buddies at the shop I got the motor + stand inside & next to my work bench, which is now high on my list of favorite places. I can now pick at it during lunch breaks until it is ready to drop in to the truck, rain or shine. [IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...31613497_n.jpg[/IMG]

Not pictured is the broken remains of a nylon cam-strap still bolted to the engine. Be smarter than I am, guys - lift with chain.
That's all for tonight. Hopefully by Friday I'll have enough done for another update.

PS I swear, my work station is never that messy except for Friday evening!

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

yossarian19: Your story cracks me up. I bet you have huge fun building that project because of the truck's history. You named the project "Over My Head" and that won't be the case if you ask the right questions and post lots of pictures in here. There are many well healed builders that frequent this forum who can help you with any problems you might incur along the way. That along with the fact that you are a mechanic, nothing will be over your head. Good luck with your project. I will be tuned in for sure.;)

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

I love getting new things delivered to the house.
I agree with Chevette that it wont be over your head.
Kim

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

i believe you, even if your boss and co-workers don't :D:D:D

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

So, I needed to test drive a customer's car & try to provoke a symptom we thought was coming on under heat soak. Naturally, I took the car up the road to the nuts & bolts specialist in town.
Didn't get the no-start symptom I wanted, but I did get (4) M10*1.5*110 & (2) M10*1.5*90 bolts so now I have an accessory bracket mounted to my Vortec and an alternator mounted on top of that, like so:[
IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...112_172819.jpg[/IMG]
Power steering pump bolts, which I'll get tomorrow, are (2) M10*1.5*35 & (1) M10*1.5*30.
I forgot to measure the accessory belt tensioner bolts, but I think they are M10*1.5*25 or 30.
Of course, if you just buy a complete motor you won't need to know any of this. In retrospect, that's clearly what I should have done.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

I've gotten the adapter plates, motor mounts & the power steering pump bolted up. At this point I'm waiting for the cross member I ordered (October 22nd, it was) to show up from CPP, then I can start seeing how it all fits under the hood.
Oh, I gotta bolt up the flex plate, too. Might even behoove me to change the plugs.
Pics when I get something picture-worthy to happen.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Well, yesterday at lunch I got the idler bearing and PS pulley installed. Having bought a naked motor, I needed to buy a 2nd idler bearing (this one with shoulder bolt included). Bought an Ebay PS pump, so needed a pulley (of course). Went to throw the belt on it & of course, the power steering pulley was over-sized and so the factory-fit belt doesn't fit.
Oh, well.
Monday I'll bolt up the flex plate and call it quits until Christmas shopping is done. Might be slow on updates for a little.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

After a fair bit of screwing around, I got my engine & trans bolted together. Turns out the torque converter has to be screwed around with a fair ammount before it seats all the way in to the trans, and ARP's flex-plate-to-TC bolts are too tall to be left loose while you are spinning the motor over to the next one.
Eventually, though, I got this:
[IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...126_170635.jpg[/IMG]

I also got my CPP engine x member in the mail today, so if it is slow at work tomorrow I'll try and see how / where this mess will mount in the '57.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

cool.
Good luck with the install.
Kim

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Keep it up. Can't wait to see the LS installation/wiring. Looking good. dug224

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Small update: The CPP parts don't seem to fit right. I wrote an email to customer service asking about it, so no final judgement - but I honestly don't think I'll buy much else from CPP.
Despite that hiccup, my buddies at work were feeling *really* helpful and so we cleared off our alignment rack / junk collection and pushed the '57 indoors. Now I've got a well lit, clean, dry & level place to work on the truck. Like so:
[IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...127_170346.jpg[/IMG]
When I hear back from CPP, hopefully before lunch break today, I'll start actually test fitting for where I want the motor to sit. So far, all I know is "as far back as I can".
I'll probably be taking the steering box off again & maybe knocking some rivets around. We'll see.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Determined, so far, the following guidelines to LS swapping in a stock '57:
Stock Vortec manifolds will fit between the frame rails but it is close
4l60E will be non-removable without sectioning or removing the stock trans cross member, but it can be installed
The truck pan sump can get behind the stock axle but getting behind the steering is a reach
The steering gear box needs to be removed & updated to an outside-the-frame PS box, like CPP's kit, unless you want the engine *way* forward.
The hand actuated parking brake seems like it can be left alone
The CPP x member is poorly made, if my experience is to be generalized.

Hopefully I'll have pictures of it mounted up by Friday evening.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Spent a fair ammount of the afternoon measuring, eyeballing, shoving & considering engine placement.
With the CPP kit, which I wouldn't buy again or recomend to anyone, you want the engine crossmember caps flipped horizontally lengthwise with the leading edge 26.25" back from the frame rail. Lift as high as it will go & voila - it's all in place.
Of course, this puts your truck pan's sump 3.25" above the tie rod, and thats before the engine is resting on the suspension, but I have a plan for that...

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Sorry to hear about the CPP parts. That seems to be the norm for them. If you go to the bad deals part of the board here...

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/f...ysprune=&f=122

...you'll see you are definitely not alone. CPP shows up about every third post. I just tell people to avoid them. Anyhow...the plan sounds good and you'll be happy with the 4.8, my 5.3 is fantastic. Don't know if you knew but there is a LSx swap board on here under engines, if you have any questions about the transplant. Can't wait to see more.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Im always a fan of LS swaps, yours is coming along nicely. STay away from CPP is you can!

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Are you winning the battle after the steering change?

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Haven't had a chance to work on my truck today, been busy with customer's cars & answering the phones.
I'm hoping that I'll be able to get the motor in its final position in the next week or so, but it is looking doubtful for today or the weekend.
I still need to clearance the cross member tube from CPP's crappy kit. I'm not comfortable with under 2mm from pan to tube, and don't intend on swapping to an F body kit if a torch & hammer will do the job.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

If it were too easy it wouldn't be any fun:lol:

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Well, I got the clearance I was looking for from the CPP member. All it took was acetylene and a ball peen hammer.
Even had a shot at welding the member in place, but had a learning experience instead.
Lesson 1: welders need to be maintained. Things like tip cleanliness and ground clamp condition matter. A lot.
Lesson 2: It's important to close the $%^ shielding gas bottle when not in use. This one was my co-worker's mistake, but it drove home the lesson for me.
Lesson 3: This one is yet to come, but it is in the proper use of grinding & cutting equipment for getting the X member back out, cleaned up, & put in correctly.

The silver lining is that my buddy Korwyn might be willing, for a few bucks & a few beers, to tune up the welder & burn the cross member into place competently while I'm working on customer cars some time. I'm learning to weld, and I'm glad to, but I'll be even gladder to get the engine into place & move on.

So, all in all, things are going damned slowly at the moment but hey, my first build. I'll try and cut myself some slack.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

There is more to it than one would think! It takes a while to get used to how everything effects everything else. After a while you even start to like it:smoke: then comes when you have withdrawal when you don't have a project:lol::uhmk: then you get like me :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

There is more to it than one would think! It takes a while to get used to how everything effects everything else. After a while you even start to like it:smoke: then comes when you have withdrawal when you don't have a project:lol::uhmk: then you get like me :lol::lol::lol::lol: if you have seen my steering column in my build thread you know what i mean.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

I got the motor in place today. A friend, Corwin, came by & welded in the cross member after I got it clamped in place & double checked my measurements. Triple checked, in fact.
From there it took ~10 minutes and the engine was in its new home.
[IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...83357491_n.jpg[/IMG]
Turns out that with the stock trans cross member in place you can get everything in there, but you can't point the trans towards your rear axle. Pan clearance or driveline angle - can't have both with that cross member in there.
So, I formulated a plan & tomorrow, if it's slow at work, out comes the sawzall (cutoff wheel?) and I'll post pictures of the modified member.

I wound up putting my CPP member's mounting plates 26.25" back from the frame rail's tip, as high as I could stuff them inside the frame. I wouldn't recommend their parts especially but with an angle grinder, a torch & a hammer they work just fine.

Additional tech notes: no way you can get a stock steering box in there with stock headers. Probably not even with block huggers. I am going with the CPP power steering kit, which moves the steering gear forward and outside the frame rail.
The motor could be moved further back but only with a lot of trans tunnel massaging, which I wanted to avoid in order to keep life simple. This setup is still lightening the truck, I think, and moving weight rearward for sure.
Oh, and the tie rod: stock beam axle steering leaves precious little room between tie rod and oil pan. I couldn't get them to touch when I bounced on the front of the chassis, though, so it may be that extending bump stops is good enough. I may wind up going with a different axle regardless. Moving the engine further back, though, you could get the oil sump clear of the steering. Or switch to an F-body pan & call it a day - though I haven't measured to see that an F-body pan would def. work.
Ultimately, I decided that despite the tie rod clearance issue that my motor placement offered the best compromise of space ahead, space behind & space underneath. Both cross members and the firewall are working against this swap but with a new oil pan or some extended bump stops, it can be done pretty easily.
Last note: I used CPP's 3" forward LS conversion plate. So if you do something similar, take that into consideration w/ your mounts.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Nice progress. Keep it up.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Looks good. I remember how good I felt once I got mt engine tacked in place.
Kim

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Lighting was too poor to bother posting the picture I took, but on my lunch break I sawzalled the old cross member out. I think with the right combination of motor mounts and firewall trimming I could have gotten the driveshaft angle I wanted without cutting, maybe, but in my case the cross member had to die.
It was kind of crazy - at some point the member had caught a stump or a rock hard enough to collapse in the front wall of it. That caused enough bind to snap a sawzall blade at the attachment point when I hit the bound-up area.
So, Corwin claims to have a 4l60E yoke laying around. Methinks I'll use the original two piece driveshaft & have the trans-side section shortened & the yoke put on. Add new U-joints & a spin balance & call it a day. Unless the driveline shop wants to build me one cheaper than they'll modify the old stuff, that is.
Slow progress but things are getting done. Now that work is busy again I'm down to just a couple hours a week I can work on the truck. Of course I'm getting paid for 8 hours a day again, so I can afford parts.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

I trimmed ~1/2" off either end of the CPP cross member & got it to fit well enough to hang the transmission on. I still need to finalize the angle & firm it all up later on, but for now, it keeps me from having to keep a support leg under the truck.
[IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...56521073_n.jpg[/IMG]
Then I got the coil packs re installed, along with fresh plugs & wires. Put in the engine coolant temp sender, too.
[IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...615499_n-1.jpg[/IMG]

Not pictured, I also got the driveshaft support bracket re-installed with 3/8"-16 hardware and got the original parking brake hooked up again. I'm super glad to be able to retain the stock hand brake, I think it's a really cool bit of retro (is it still retro when it's actually old?) and pretty darn practical. I'd removed it when I wasn't sure how it would fit with the motor.

I was about to tear into the front axle when I discovered that the lift the truck is on is malfunctioning - the suspension lifts don't work, only the drive-on section. So when the time comes to install steering & brakes, I'll be getting creative with all of that.
Or just roll it onto another lift, I guess...

Blew through everything I'd hoped to get done, so now I have to make up a new to-do list. No shortage of work, just need a plan...

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Looking good.
I used the same CPP trans cross member in mine.
Kim

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Well, I tore into the wiring harness today.
The trouble is, I found several sections where the junkyard cut off connectors.
We'll see what / which they were as I'm able to identify them. Really don't know if I'll be able to use the harness.
Worst case scenario, I've spent 2-3 hours today practicing for my next harness mod.
Best case... I've got almost all the fat trimmed out of the harness & am almost ready to start adding fuses & relays.
Gotta look for a connector picture for o2 sensors... I think everything else is accounted for on the harness.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

colored spagitti. Rats now I am hungry!

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Well, I went over things & reviewed a few diagrams. All I'm missing, it turns out, is the male connector for my driver's side o2 sensor. I'll buy a 4-pin Weatherpack connector for $3 and move on when I get back to work in early January. Progress to date:
[IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...psaf21f03b.jpg[/IMG]
Massive slowdown at work means I'm not going to be spending any / much money on this for a little while, though I think I can afford to finish the wiring harness by mid January and hopefully be back to full time work by then. After that... front axle swap? Steering fab? Dunno.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Massive slowdown at work means I'm not going to be spending any / much money on this for a little while, though I think I can afford to finish the wiring harness by mid January and hopefully be back to full time work by then. After that... front axle swap? Steering fab? Dunno.[/QUOTE]

There are a million and one thaings to do that don't cost anything or a couple bucks.I know I have been working on mine steady for two years and have less than $1000 into it

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

Well, I haven't bought it yet but christmas present to myself is going to be some wiring supplies to finish up this part of the project with fuses, relays, harness wrap & split loom. I think I'll also set up a push button start and some sort of covert fuel system interrupt to minimize chances of anyone joy-riding the truck, since it's going to have a dirt-simple ignition system and 1957 locks.

Re: Project: Over My Head
 

I still need to solder the injector positive wires together & build the fuse blocks, but first I need a soldering iron. Here's how far I've gotten with the wiring:
[IMG]http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1118ac42.jpg[/IMG]

What I need to know now is whether I can get rid of the PNP switch. I think I'd read that you can, plus the GM rep at SEMA told me it wasn't needed. I don't remember what if anything you have to (ought to) do if you aren't going to use the trans mounted switch, though. I don't care about neutral safety nearly so much as I care about idle quality / in gear vs neutral.
Then again, as long as it runs well, I don't think I care about 100 rpm at idle one way or the other.
Thoughts?