Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Well I'm roundin up ideas for my 72 C/10 swb pickup since its current setup is decent I want it to have a little more power and durability all around so that I feel safer on longer trips she's been mostly around town and within 100 miles or so of home.

I'd like to take trips from the Central Valley to let's say Southern California if I wanted to no problems just fire her up an go.
I don't have the major bucks to do an LS1-3 swap not do I have the desire for the LS look as I'm more of a fan of the carb motors (keep classic classic you know)

This truck IS my daily present/future driver so I can't put it down for long at this point and I plan to use it everyday after as I am doing now so it'll need to be very dependable.

I don't need a ton of horsepower but I don't feel like being embarrassed by the local prius's either so I'm wanting a decent SBC 350 with around 300 horsepower.

Of course I can fiddle with that since I want to be somewhere in the ball park of 16-20 mpg that I'm hoping the gearing and 700r4 trans would give me I already jumped 2-4 mpg swapping from 4:11 gears to 3:73's in two different 12 bolt rear ends.

so here's what I have

Current setup:
Motor: 350 SBC with serpentine.
less than 200 HP estimated.
Keyway was layed over on crank has now been jb welded for a full year no problems fortunately.
Very mild cam may be ruined from from rocker arms being too tight on first adjustment (had a bad motor builder).
Edelbrock performer intake with carb (happy with this could upgrade).
Late model serpentine belt setup (very happy with this as well.

Transmission: Th350 automatic Very solid rebuilt three years ago no issues.
Shift kit.

Differential: 12 bolt 3:73 gearing dog legger rear end.
very solid but have my original to rebuild into something newer.
1-piece driveline.

Brakes/suspension: Disc brakes up front with mcgaughys 2.5" drop spindles and stock worn out springs (bouncy).
Drum brakes out back solid but wanting disc (have line on wildwood rotors and calipers).
E-brake cable broke midway never been fixed since I got it as I don't have a use for one other than to keep the truck closer to stock.

Now here's my ideal setup and somewhat of what I think may work from my basic knowledge here in the board.

Dream setup:

Motor: 350 sbc 300 HP on carb style motor edelbrock goodies with serpentine belt setup on front.
New headers (chevelle shorties? Open to better ideas still want them to tuck up a bit).

Transmission: 700r4 overdrive tranny rebuilt innards from a stock case with some tricks to strengthen it (heard they're a bit brittle when HP is added).

Differential: 12 bolt 3:73 Richmond gears with eaton posi.
Shortened 1-piece driveline.

Brakes: Rear brakes upgraded to wilwood calipers and rotors (what do I need for swap or can I just buy a kit?)
Replace front calipers and rotors for wilwood as well.
Wilwood master cylinder and dump brake booster.

Suspension: Bag the truck manually for now until I can afford full switch/tank/compressor air ride for that cushy drive feel

ANY kin of advice or guidance for all that was mentioned would be greatly appreciated I'm looking to do a lot of this at the end of the next two months or so and I want to round up all of what I need so that I can get a head start and not be too rushed on this.

Thank you for reading and any responses in advance -Dylan
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Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Any opinions?

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

ttt

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

I think it might be hard to get that kind of mileage (16-20) with a carbed v8. You could get one of those GM Performance crate motors, the 260 hp one is like $1500, and 290hp is like $2000. Both of those would use your intake, carb, and accessories you already have. I would also consider gping to a 3.08 gear (was standard on most v8 auto trans trucks). I have a 3.08 behind my th350 and 383 and its got all the low end I need. Also, if you switch to a 700R4 trans, the first is a little lower than a th350. We put the 260 hp crate in a buddy of mines 72 and it had lots of pep with an Edelbrock Performer intake and carb. I think that bolted to a 700r4 to a 3.08 rear with a locker would be ideal. You would be getting the top end of possible mpg's, and still have something that was fun at red lights!

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Getting 1hp per cubic inch out of a 350 is EZPZ with the stock bottom end, and flat top pistons. That's doing the rebuild yourself too.

Or one of he crate 260hp or 290hp engines would be a good way to go as well. Plus they have a warranty. 12mpg is pretty realistic with a 350 in a truck with no aerodynamics.

Gary

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Great info on that but it seems like 3.08's are a huge jump from my supposedly 3:73's and when you ad in another gear with the 700r4 would that go even further into more of a tall gear? Or am I backwards on that?

Also I have a motor that shouldn't be too used up that I could save a bit on opposed to buying a whole long block to start with. Do those crate motors automatically get better mileage just from not being used before?
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Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Seems like I get that kind of mileage now with no HP and no overdrive. I'm sure I won't end up 350/350 on the motor so with a taller gearing and that overdrive mileage should increase no?
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Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

The 3.08 is what came factory in a ton of the 90s model trucks with the overdrive trans. I think it will just be tough to get anywhere near 20 mpg with a carbed setup, just because it doesn't vary the fuel feed as much as an electronically controlled setup will do. If you run the 3.08 with a 700R4, you will see better mileage, especially at highway speeds, but you will still be able to roast the tires.

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Hmm I think I need to do that little rotation trick on the rear end I have currently to see what gearing I really have, never had the inspection cover off before on this one. I dont care for roasting the tires as I've realized there's no weight in the rear on these trucks which breaks any chance of winning a dead stop drag anyway. but I'm definitely more for the driving portion since I definitely enjoy that more than racing around course I wont mind having the option.

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

That's a good idea. Do you know what eng/trans the truck had from the factory?

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

no I just removed the rear end it originally had If I were to guess it would have benn 4:11's? it screamed on the freeway at 65 where as the new 12 bolt runs solidly with traffic 65-70 no problem

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

I've heard that most of the trucks with 3 on the column came with 3.73, 4 spds came with 4.11, and auto came with 3.08. But with custom orders and shade tree mechanics, I guess anything is possble by now, lol.

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

How would I be able to know the factory gearing for my truck as far as I know I can only get motor designation off the VIN correct? course my truck has probably been through quite a few different owners at this point in its life.

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Well I've been searching alot today and here is what I have in the area of crate motors, I'm leaning towards just biting the bullet and getting one I'll drive this truck for a long time why put anything thats even semi-tired into it any opinions on these motors here?

I'm liking this right here optimum HP but I'm just curious if it really hold up better than the true blue GM goodwrench engines

http://www.westcoastengines.com/prod...-1-300-hp.html

here's one from GM performance pricier but brand new

http://store.chevroletperformance.co...-12499529--%3E

Another from Crate Engine Depot which will put me into the beginnings of the vortec's

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/57-L...P9443C718.aspx

and of course ones from Summit.

I think I'm getting too many choices now

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

I like the prices on the first one

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

As do I and it is close..

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Leaning towards the GM Crate just to feel all warm and gushy about the newness also hearing that they recommend the 4L60e's trans instead of the 700r4 any BIG difference other than them being mechanical vs. electronic? do the 4L's hold together better than the 700's? Any personal experience here for comparing?

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Alright so I'm definitely going crate motor from GM long block 350/290hp I feel this motor will suit my needs most and leave me the happiest out of all options so with that finalized I will be mating a 700r4 transmission behind it from either bowtie overdrives or a local trans shop that has done our previous transmissions. Going to use their tv made easy kit as Shawno72 suggested and I'm lookin into running a tubular crossmember that way I can run my exhaust higher when I get to that point. Now speaking of exhaust I want to dump my junky Hooker long tube Headers and run something more mid range like chevelle since I hear that they are popular to use because of fitment an performance now what exactly would I be looking for??
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Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Hmm these would be REALLY nice Thorleys

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dt...model/chevelle

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...te-380-c_w.jpg

Or Hedman's

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/he...model/chevelle

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...ed-68609_w.jpg

Hooker Headers..

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ho...model/chevelle

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...-2466-4HKR.jpg

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Hedman part #69010, JEGS

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Those fit the description perfect but as for quality do they hold up? Also is the price low because of them being uncoated? Also a stickler for closely matching headers side to side if there is such a thing. I know I know I'm too picky :lol:
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Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Ttt

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

The headers are available with and without coating, they are similar side to side, but with shorty's the can't be identical because of the shifter linkage. They are holding up well so far, Hedman has a good reputation.

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Right I'm only seeing coated so far and I'm debating if I really want shiny under the good but I guess a little couldn't hurt. As far as symmetry these are the closest I've found side to side. I know they can't be exact but good reputation helps. Hedman was another option probably my 2nd if I don't go with thorleys
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Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

i think the thorleys are good, but overpriced. Its all opinion. Get the best you can afford, and most likely you won't regret it.

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Well I plan to have this truck a long time I can't afford the immediate price but I can swing them thru beats "bill me later" option. I want to be happy with this next motor setup because I fear that if I'm not happy yet again it'll discourage me on this truck. I'm not dead set on thorleys I know they're pricey. My father has loved them in the past when he was building trucks and I've never heard too much negativity toward them so they became a top choice. I'm just simply looking or input and I thank you and the others for all the help on what to look for and try out.
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Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

About the fuel economy thing. My father's 66 C-10 gets around 18MPG. It has a 3.11 first gear Saginaw 4 speed manual, 3.07 gears, and a 31x10.50r15 drive tire. The engine is a flat top 350 with vortec heads, very mild sealed power CS274 RV cam, rams horn iron manifolds, and an Edelbrock 1406 (Carter copy) carb. (Runs real nice, but will spark knock if you lug it down on 87 octane. ) Generally he drives 45-55 around town and 60 or so on the highway.

So, IMO, (and IME) don't drive like there's something wrong with you, don't have a carburetor with a sunk float and the idle mixture screw falling out, and you'll get respectable mileage with these trucks.

You'll also hear about getting 10-12MPG with a 250 inline six. Again, with 3.73's, 31x10.50r15's, a 250, and a three speed, my '65 C-10 got 18+MPG, and it's so worn out it would burn a quart of 15w40 every 100 miles or so making that run @55MPH.

And, no, these numbers are in US gallons, and they are figured using google maps for the distance and filling the truck with a can and dipstick by fuel weight.

Anyway, that's been my experience, as they say, YMMV.

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Man what a wealth on getting all those numbers down I know it's far more than just slipping the right trans behind the motor there's so much that take into account honestly I know my fat 10" wheel/tire combo is killing me on any kind of mileage I probably still run 12 best and 14 on a great downhill but with my upcoming setup I'd be more than happy to have 15 and a great running truck. Gas prices don't really hurt me as long as I'm happy driving my truck. I don't rate it as MPG but more as smiles per gallon :lol:
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Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

15 should be real doable with something that's tuned up well. I'd start with the carb, myself. Holley's are very tunable if that's what you have, and Quadrajet's are very good carbs for economy. The Edelbrock 1406 AFB I mentioned earlier is already set up for mileage out of the box, and has done well so far on the truck it's on, if you're looking for something you can more or less bolt on.

Whatever carb you run, one thing I'd suggest is to run the idle mixture as lean as you can comfortably deal with when it's cold. (Tuning with a vacuum gauge I normally go a little lean past max vacuum at operating temp.) I personally think the idle mixture plays a bigger roll in fuel economy than most would think.

One thing I also forgot mention before is fuel pressure. A crappy generic fuel pump can make too much pressure and push fuel past the needle and seat at times, causing poor mileage and potentially making it run like crap. I'd recommend always running a good fuel pressure regulator to make sure that doesn't happen. You could try that now and see if your mileage improves any, 5PSI or so should be a good number.

Also, another thing I'd think about is a manual trans swap. I don't know how you feel about that but thought I'd throw it out there. A lot of people run 700r4's and 4L60's, but I'd never personally put one in a truck I was going to keep for any length of time. A good Saginaw 4 speed, clutch, 3.07 gear, and Hurst linkage like the '66 I mentioned has will be less than the auto-tragic and will almost certainly outlast it several times over in normal driving. Burn up the clutch 100,000 later? Rockauto has the whole kit for less than $100, and it only takes an hour or so to change. A T-5 5 speed would give you your overdrive if you want to keep your 3.73 rear, and they are common and not that expensive. Might be something to look into.

I also think the four speed adds some extra "smiles per gallon", for me it does, anyway. ;)

Re: Newtype 72 c/10 power/drivetrain HELP
 

Dang...where's this guy been? Some good info and advice! I like it!