Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

I had been adding pics of this in my build thread as it progressed, but thought maybe it warranted its own thread. hopefully it will be a good reference for someone else.

I looked, albeit briefly, for options that could be purchased. i didnt find anything and of what i saw, i got a little scared about the cost. so i decided to dive in and build my own.

Goal is to support a 6BT with head(and maybe more, we'll see) from the crankshaft end of the engine. for you non diesel guys, that is the 5.9 cummins from a dodge truck. it weighs about 975 pounds engine, head and IP. sans manifold and turbo. its also about 40 inches from rear face to front.

i spent an evening on the computer getting a rough design hammered out

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps06305261.jpg

this is a confusing but closer look at the headstock

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps4cc08b7d.jpg

to start, i whittled a chunk of 4" x .500" wall DOM to 10.5" in length. it is faced in the lathe, and if my memory is good, it finished at 10.502" ill excuse the extra 2 thou as i am an amateur.

the ID was also bored to 3.122"

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps9571e73f.jpg

i forgot to collect photographical evidence, but i have also rough cut the two 3"x.250" wall square tubes that will comprise the separated column that supports the headstock. they still need to be cut for the saddles for the DOM

I ordered a 3.125"x 2.625"x 6" bronze bushing. this thing is manly

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psc1133681.jpg

i will finish boring the DOM to the appropriate ID for a press fit, now that i have the bushing . then ill cut the bushing in half and press half into either side of the DOM.

I have a 3" round of cold rolled 1045 bar on the way that for the shaft. that is supposed to be here tomorrow.

I also have this 60:1 worm drive gear box that will be used to turn the engine over. as the project progresses, ill show you how that goes together.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psbbc81933.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

mild progress here

got the bushing split and pressed into the headstock. my 3" bar stock showed up as well. i may begin roughing the od on that tomorrow. ill have to weld the uprights on and finish bore the bushings before i know for sure what my finnish OD will be though. maybe ill weld tomorrow...

you can see the exagerated stick out on the bushings. they will be faced back until there is a few thou stick out. this will act as a thrust surface for the engine plate and the retaining plate on the other side.


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps83dda147.jpg

and i cut the saddles into the uprights.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps9e4cba13.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

You're doing some nice work. It looks like this should an awesome engine stand. I've always build my own engine stands.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Subscribed!

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Thanks guys!

put a little time into this today.

hucked it back in the lathe and faced the bushing back. i left .002 stickout on one end and .007 on the other for thrust. one side will see little to no thrust pressure. thats why they are different. not sure that makes sense in the real world, but it did in the happy place in my head.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psf8dd43ca.jpg

cleaned the scale off the DOM too

i ran around the 3" square with the synchrowave

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psdb9cbef7.jpg

this is the upright and headstock. the table is 4'x8' for reference

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps961d8fbf.jpg

and then i decided to do another pass on the welds for posterity

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psd77fe409.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Nice.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Very nice :thumbs:

Which Syncrowave do you have?

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Thanks guys.

its a 350lx i think. i forget the letters.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

All the guys at work are waiting to see how this turns out. We rebuild 5.9 and 6.7 all day long for our company. All our stands bolt on the side of the block. This works fine but you can't hook the exhaust or turbo on till its off the stand. With your design , you can build a complete drop in right there on the stand. Looking great. Can't wait to see it done.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Oh! You've got the big one.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Thanks

I certainly hope it turns out. i still haven't seen the results of the simulation program, but at this rate, ill get to test it in the real world before they get to that. my biggest concern is that it not be bouncy when its loaded. that is when engine stands creep me out. My seat of the pants feeling after several years of fabricating, is that it will be fine. it is still a lot of weight overhung pretty far. so far my tendency to overbuild hasnt failed me. lets hope it continues!

Yessir. our real old back up welder blew its guts out about 18 months ago. so my old 250 got shuffled to the backup position and i got a shiny new one. it certainly is nice. plus the built in cooler is so much quieter than the bernard that was on the 250. all things considered, i would prefer the older style 250 in my garage. mostly because they are so much cheaper and a little more compact. since it was on the boss and our shop is plenty big, i am all game!

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Our only suggestion is to make a plate that you can add different attachments too. You might like the side mount better than the rear mount. Plus you can only rebuild a 6.7 from the side. Is your plan to bolt it right to the block or with the bellhousing on? The reason I'm asking is because of the rear main seal. You might not have enough room to install it. I give the guys an update every morning.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

For sure! the current plan has a 10" diameter plate with a 6 bolt circle on 7" centers. that will be the engine side of the shaft. then i will build any number of adapters for whatever i need to hang off of it. i have a tendency to collect powertrain parts and have a propensity for big blocks and 6bts. so i will be building a GM v8 pattern adapter for it as well i'm sure. i'll likely build an adapter for the nv4500 when its time to rebuild it as well.

for now my plan is to grab the 6bt by the upper four flywheel housing adapter bolts and the two bolts that are up by the rear coolant plug. hopefully this will put the pivot closer to the weight center line when the head is on. it will also give me some space at the rear main seal housing to work on that as well. as you said, it may be handy to have the side mount for it too, and that one will be easy to make.

i sure appreciate the advice of someone who has to deal with these heavy SOBs every day. glad to hear you and your crew are interested too!

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

i hope i can get a little more done to this during the week, but my next big step is getting the bushings finish bored. i may have some time to play with it, but the set up is a little time consuming and i will be out of town all weekend. i also need to order the 4" square tube for the rest of the frame. usually we have that laying around at work, but i looked the other day and we are fresh out. we have a project coming that will use the same size i need, so i wont have to pay shipping at least!

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

I've had my hopes of upgrading to a Syncrowave 250 for a while now. For most of what I do I might be able to get by with the new 210, but I'd rather have the 250 for the little extra $$. Right now I'm using an old Airco 250. If it gives up before funds are available for a new machine, I'll just put a HF unit on my Shopmaster 300........sorry for the derail :)

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

No problem, conversation is welcome.

i agree on holding out till you can get the bigger machine. it generally doesn't matter on stainless and mild. but its really nice to have some amperage available if you want to glue some bigger aluminum. ive run this 350 with over 300 amps a few times on AL. couldnt do that with the 210. i never did run out of juice with the 250

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

here is a lonely pic of not that much progress!

i finished bored half of the headstock. picture is crap but it sure finished up nice! i got a little neurotic and decided to stop here and machine a mandrel/jig to locate the headstock on the mill. i am being a little over critical, but it wont take long to machine it and i will feel better about the bores in the bushings being concentric. so after i machine the jig i will be able to indicate it on the mill bed and slip the finished bore over it. clamp it down and bore the other side. should get me close enough for this thing. i got laughed at and heard the comment, "yeah cause this engine stand will be spinning 10k rpm..." hahaha.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psf788e16c.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

oh, i forgot, i placed the order for the 4" square today along with the tubing needed for our real work. hope to see it early next week. it will be cool to get the frame all put together. as soon as i get these bushings finished up, i can start hogging material off of the 3" bar stock!

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

I'd have a hard time working in an area that I'd have to wait a week to get 4" x .250" square tube. Here, I'd have that delivered tomorrow morning. I guess I'm just spoiled.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Yeah, there are some disadvantages to living in paradise! Not that you are suffering in Coeur d'Alene... actually there is a small steel supplier here in town that i am sure would have it. its just cheaper if i buy it from work and they buy it from a big material company. the deliveries come out of utah and usually hit on monday or tuesday. generally we have a pretty significant stock in house. just not this time.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

i did get the bores finished. i made my little jig to locate the hole concentrically.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psf63b93a4.jpg

it fits! i got it machined to within a half or one thou, depending how warm the aluminum was.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psc3e8a461.jpg

crappy pic but here they are. i eyeballed the bores with a strait edge and it looked well. not that that counts for much.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps58881b98.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

I will be out of town all weekend, so i figured i best do a little something before i left.

i started roughing the shaft. still have a ways to go, but i had to do something...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psaebcd4f1.jpg

these Kenametal inserts make even a hack welder like me look good. picture does this finish no justice.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps0e868b4c.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

I have absolutely no doubt that you've underestimated your design's capacity. That thing is STOUT looking. What I am wondering is how strong are the bolt holes the flywheel housing bolts to? I'm picturing the mounting plate you are fabricating to sit flush on the block, not with "legs" like most off-the shelf .5T jobbers have. Am I understanding your explanation correctly?

The stand you are building Looks about the same size as the ones I used for Big Cam rebuilds.

By the way, did you get all the PDF files from Chassis Fab at Wyocheck?

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Man i wish i could do stuff like that where i work.... Nope! equipment is off limits for personal stuff. Cant afford to buy the equipment ether.. Nice work!

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

i am pretty sure it will be fine. i will have my doubts until get it finished and hang an engine from it though.

the stand will have a universal mounting plate. it will just have a round bolt pattern in it. i will build an adapter to go from that plate to the back of the block. it will probably amount to a couple of inches from the face of the mount plate to the back face of the block. i have an idea in my head for the adapter, but i have not started on that yet. my ideas have a tendency to evolve as start building. but it will not be thin little tubes like a parts house engine stand. i am not worried about the mounting bosses in the block. i have seen these engines hung off of them several times with less beefy stands. there is a significant amount of material in the casting and plenty of threads.

i don't have a clue about the PDF files you are asking about. was this a recent thing? i don't communicate with the Tech at all. i don't even now if they have my contact info anymore. i still talk to one of the instructors that was a really cool guy, but he is no longer there.

are you talking about the plans for the tools you could build as projects?

Thanks

that does suck. i know i am lucky. it is beneficial for the shop in a way though. the more of my own stuff i piddle with the better i am as a fabricator for them too. i already cover the machining when it is something that needs done quickly. our machinist is more of a weekend guy since he has a M-F job elsewhere. It also helps that the boss is usually pretty interested in stuff like this and he also likes automotive related projects. mostly he is just a generous type and helps out whenever he can.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

back at it today!

it fits! really well. about 2 thou clearance and the bushings were concentric!

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps8e43adc8.jpg

the big end. the mounting plate will be here one day

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psbd9bc2a5.jpg

its not really a DIY project without a little blood letting... i didnt break the edge of the larger end and when it slid home, my thumb was in the way. Doh

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps412bdd56.jpg

then i dug this bad boy out of the pile. its the inside of a flange we jetted. 1.5" plate and about 12" diameter now. i will be making it all pretty as well as cutting a bore for a press fit on the shaft. i know the the chuck is over jawed. itll be ok for no more than it is.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...pse3a0d5be.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Nice thumb. That is so something that I would do.

I was at a shop today that had a 24V on a typical parts house stand mounted (sort of) to a plate mounted to the lower block on the oil cooler side. Had a plate mounted to the block and that mounted to the plate that the "adjustable arms" would typically mount to. There were four bolts at various angles through the two plates and three of them had nuts on them. The fourth was there but its support was in spirit only. It obviously worked, but it seemed just a little bit sketchy. Otherwise it looked like they did some nice work.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

What's up with that 12" disc, the edge looks like wood :lol:

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Haha. my fingers get in the way all the time! those engine stands scare me. even with a dressed small block. id hate to think about a cummins sitting on one for any period of time.

thats the waterjet. it has this funny glaze of rust that forms after its cut. it does kinda look like wood in the picture.. :lol:

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

pulled out the drill index. these ought to do...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps0b5e0a39.jpg

after i got a hole started i began to whittle. was a little short on time this afternoon. i had to machine a jig for a real work project after normal quitting time. but progress is progress. ill hopefully finish the bore and maybe the face tomorrow

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psbc7e43b9.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

That stands to reason. Being a drop, I imagine no one would have cared if it rusted a little.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

almost any mild steel part flash rusts as soon as you pull it from the table. if you get them off quick and wipe them down they stay pretty fresh, but what rust forms wipes off with a scotch brite pad.

i faced both sides and got the bore and OD all shiny. i wish i had waited to finish the bore till after i had the OD and faces cut. now there are jaw marks on the bore. i didnt make it a real tight press fit, so it should be OK, just more annoyance that i forgot to do it than anything. next step will be cutting the hole pattern.

i cant decide if i should tap the holes or through bolt. and i am a little up in the air on what size to use. 6 grade 8 1/2" bolts will hold a lot, but i have room and thickness to go with 3/4... probably just do the 1/2. not really any sense in going so big.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps04dd4beb.jpg

have to go do the taxes tomorrow immediately after work, but i think i will stop in saturday and look into counter boring the shaft and pressing the plate on the hub, or start cutting the rest of the framework.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

So, after i held the 5/8-18 tap in my hand for 5 minutes looking for a suitable 37/64" split point, i bailed out and went with the original plan of 1/2-20 tapped holes. i was planning a 6 on 7" pattern. since i went with the smaller bolt and ended up with a bigger diameter plate than i planned i decided to push that out to an 8 on 8" 8 half inch bolts will hold more than this stand could hope to, so i think it will be A OK.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps8b58f277.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

I dropped by the shop yesterday for a bit.

i counter bored the end of the shaft for clearance on the drive output.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps78a4abd8.jpg

i also cut the lower frame. i have my welders all scattered due to work projects, so i didn't begin tacking it up.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps8eaae7d0.jpg

then i pressed the shaft into the flange. i dithered on how i wanted to do this, ended up leaving a lip on the rear, headstock side for welding and then the front also has a pocket for weld. the front side will be machined a little more to get it perfectly true to the shaft. cant have any runout on this high performance engine(stand). haha

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psc3aba3e9.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps8e552deb.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Runnout? what?? :) This has got to be the nicest and most over planned and stout buildup on an engine stand ever, Great work!

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

Yeah, no runout!

did a little work today.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps4c1a2c03.jpg

still have some clean up to do, but the length is set.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psb1a0323d.jpg

i also trimmed the kick up for the caster out of the tubing.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ps434a00c4.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

I'm guessing 1100# when its all done...

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

well i hope the capacity is more than that! and if it weighs 1100 finished, ive been shopping for the wrong casters! i wouldnt doubt it weighs all of 350 when it gets finished. i was thinking that i need to weigh it before i take it home though. i am curious what frankenstand will weigh.

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

finished up the plate.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psc816d5a3.jpg

and i drilled and tapped the bolt pattern for the rear retainer.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...psf55778dd.jpg

Re: Making an engine stand, the overkill way
 

sure is nice and beefy!!