Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Hello everyone, I am seeking some help in what might be a mistake I might have made in choosing brake parts for my disk brake conversion. I am in the mist bagging my 70 c10 1/2 ton, and also in the middle of doing the drum to disk on the front. I purchased 2-1/2'' dropped spindles from CPP to do the exchange. Now I thought I did all my home work on this and tried to save a few dollars and got some parts from the salvage yard to complete the conversion. The rotors are 11-1/2'' diam. x 1-1/4'' thk. The calipers are from the same vehicle, a 1977 1/2 ton c10. Now I was told that they would fit the new spindle. the rotor fits ok but the caliper looks like it is to tight, or what I mean to say is the hole that the screws to the caliper wont line up to the one's on the new spindle. Also the bleeder hose on the top of the caliper looks too long, the top part hit the top portion of the spindle. I hope I'm not confusing anyone, but I sure am scratching my head over this right now.
This first pic is the top of the caliper up against the spindle.... tight...

The second is the bottom, tight also......

And the third is hose is hitting the top of the spindle.....

Now I think I might need to change the caliper set up and or the rotor, to make this work, but I need to know from what year vehicles I need, to make the exchange. I will get the parts new, If I only knew what I needed... I'm asking the experts here for any help in setting me straight. I'm almost done with this bag project, and this is holding me up.

Thank you one and all.........

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Hey bro..can u take pics of the backside so we can see what it looks like from the back...and a pic from the too of the caliper down...need to see it all before we can give advice...

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

It's common practice to tweak the brake line fitting to ensure clearance. I use a big screwdriver & slowly/gently pry the fitting far enough away to clear the spindle.

I can't really tell where your clearance issue is w/the caliper bolt from your pics...

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

I'll try to take better pics tomorrow. I'm out of the garage right now, but when I ordered the spindles, the y guy said that any of these years, 73 to 87, rotors and calipers would fit with out any other modifications. The parts I got were from a 77. I think I can get the shorter hoses for it cause the seem rally long. But the issue seems to be with the caliper. Now I may be able to persuade the caliper to fit with a couple of taps of the old ball pean, but that might be to tight, a pain to replace in the future,plus I want to make sure the brakes will operate safely.

Thank guys, I'll post some more pics i hopes I can resolve this.......

Ok managed to get in the garage, but difficult to take pictures from behinde the wheel. The first is from the front, I was working on the passenger side, when I found the issues.....

The second is what the spindle looks like, drivers side...

The third is more towards the back... drives side...

And the fourth is from the back of the passenger side, but don't know if you can tell anything from it hard to get under there with everything done,.. Sorry...

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

If the clearance issue is w/the caliper sliding into place then that's another common issue w/some caliper/aftermarket spindle app's.

I've had to grind a little on more than 1 set-up. Buzz a little of of either piece to gain you necessary clearance so the caliper slides into place easier. The 2 bolts will anchor it in the proper position.

73-87 4wd rubber brake hoses are a little longer vs the 2wd versions. I wonder if that's what they gave you?

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Well imma measure 10x cut once type of guy...I would verify that your calipers are for a 77 and or buy a new one just to test fit it...if its a tight fit..if it is..then I ll grind some of the caliper......

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Thanks guys, I'm pretty sure the parts were from a 1/2 ton. I a little Leary about grinding down break parts, but if that's what it takes than so be it. I going to call CPP and see what information I can get from them, other wise I'll go and get some new calipers and see what happens... I searched some more and those spindles should take parts from 73 to 87, like I had mentioned before. So like SCOTI mentioned, they have to be the spindles.... Damn after market crap, and I see a lot of folks use these spindles from CPP....We'll see.... I will post the continuation..... Thanks again...

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

It's not just CPP spindles. I had to do mild clearancing on the Western Chassis spindles that are currently on my square dually. And tweak the brake line banjo fitting....

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Thanks SCOTI, Not a problem, it is what it is.... Man I hate that phrase! Try telling that to the guy on the other end of the phone, when your trying to get answers... Had to order the calipers and hope to have them by the end of the week... Delays, delays, right.....

Thanks again, stay tuned......... Oh, ok so would you advise to do the clearance on the caliper or the spindle?

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

I would opt to do the spindle so that any future replacement calipers can swap right on w/o fuss vs having to grind on them.

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

My thoughts exactly.... Cool Beans......

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

As mentioned they need some persuasion. Here's mine when I got them from CPP, I left the photos large to show the detail, sorry if they're too big. One tab had left over material from the mold I guess:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...3_165545-1.jpg

And the caliper wasn't even close to fitting, here I am holding it up level with the top tabs, you can see how much I had to take off:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...323_164054.jpg

Grind away till they fit!!!

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Thanks for the photos Mikeeal33, Always appreciate the pics... Maybe about an 1/8'' material to take off? I wounder if the folks at CPP is aware about this issue. Seems to be happening a lot....

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

I seriously doubt they'd do anything about it, not knockin em, just sayin. I probably took atleast .125" off the one tab that was the longest. Grind, test fit. Grind, test fit. Keep going till it slides in.

Don't even get me started on their "mislabeled" boxes, lol. What a pain that was.....

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

LOL... Agree... Guess I got some grinding to do tomorrow....

Thanks again.....

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Are your drop spindles for 71-72 or 73+? That might be the issue

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

The spindles I got from CPP fit from 69 to 72 and brake parts from 73 to 87 1/2 ton pickup can be used according to the folks at CPP......

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

That must be incorrect.
Ball joints and tie rods are different.
One spindle won't work for those years.
They are divided as follows:
60-62
63-70
71-72
73-87.

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

According to CPP the spindles I got for my 70 will work with the original tie rod ends witch I replaced. I also replaced the upper and lower ball joints. Everything fit together well. I had no issues with the spindle or its related parts Only the issue with the calipers and with the help of everyone here, i got that covered. I think the information I gave may be incorrect. I am sorry if so....

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Well I finally got my front brakes done. Ground down the spindles. It was actually easier that I thought, calipers fit on there great. The only thing that has me a little worried are the rubber hoses. They are a little longer than I would like them to be! I think they will work ok, did anyone have any issues with them being long? Can I get them on the shorter side and if so where. Or what did you guy's do if at all?...

Here's a pic of the back side of the passenger side, don't know if you can see the hose hanging a bit at the bottom and curled a bit... I threw the wheels I will be using on there, just to check for clearances. Everything looked good....

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Couple of things. Most of the companies use the stock GM style disc brake hoses. Problem is, on disc brake trucks, the lines connect on the front of the crossmember. On drum brake trucks, the lines are on the rear of the crossmember. This actually make the disc brake hoses route incorrectly. Most just deal with it. On my panel, I made new lines on the front side with bracket that replicate a stock disc setup.

Not the clearest pic but you'll get the idea,

http://gallery.lisaandmike.org/album...l/PICT6259.jpg

Also, the bolts holding in your upper ball joint are not mounted correct. The nuts should be on the top of the arm. Doesn't make sense at first but with the excess bolt threads sticking down, you run the risk of having them tear into the boot.

This shows them,

http://gallery.lisaandmike.org/album...l/PICT6245.jpg

Otherwise, nice job.

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

The OP had air bags.
I think you will like the extra brake hose length when airing out the front suspension.

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Already checked the travel with the longer lines, ( up and down, side to side ) and everything looks good.The reason for the bolts going going down is because I read some where here on the forum from who was an airplane mechanic and when he was in school he learned to put all the bolts facing down and nuts with lock washers facing up in case one or more of the nuts should come loose ( with vibration and such ) at least a bolt would still be in its place instead of completely loosing the attachment. I'm not sure if that would work with the upper ball joint, since if all the nuts should come out than with the downward travel I guess the spindle would detach it self from the ball joint.But I find that highly unlikely it would happen. Besides I also used a loctite thread locker on all the bolts and nuts in this particular project, I think I should be good. Its only my weekend beater, can't wait to get it on the road.

Thanks for your suggestions and concerns, I do appreciate it.....

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

What are the hoses spec'd for, 73-87 or 71-72?

For the routing path taken, 71-72 would be the right choice. 73-87's are routed differently.

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Yes 73 to 87, but perhaps the 71 to 72 with disk brakes would work better?

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

67-72's routed the brake lines along the x-member. 73-87's run the lines through the frame in front of the upper a-arm then across the front splash apron.

My bet is the hose needs to be slightly longer to reach the front area (73-87's) vs. the rear area (67-72's). Get the brake hose for the routing path you used.

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

I am an airplane mechanic. I've got the licenses in my wallet. Yes, ordinarily the bolts should face downward like you have them, but in special cases, they do not. This is a special case. Chevy Mike told you correctly. The upper ball joint hardware should be installed with bolt heads down, nut up. It protects the rubber boots from abrasion damage. There's plenty of situations on airplanes where special circumstances dictate that hardware is installed contrary to normal methods too.

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Thanks for the correction, but their in there for now the way they are. First chance I'll switch them around....

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Ok folks, almost done with my bag set up, thanks to all here.. But I have some questions if I may, concerning wheel and tire size, Again I've searched the threads, and as usual am a bit confused as to what I need. Right now I have 15x8 Vintique smoothies with 255/70/15 tires on them. Do you think this would be ok to run on my bagged beast for now? Would they maybe be to tall?. What would the experts here recommend for my bagged set up. I would like to go as low as possible, mostly when the truck is parked. I'm not exactly sure what my optimal ride height is going to be yet, but I need to know what tire size would be best......

Thanks all..........

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

255-70-15 = 29" tall. Fine for a bagged truck in the rear; a little tall for the front especially w/stock inner wheel wells. 27-28" up front allows lower ride heights & clearance.

If keeping the 8" wheels all around, a 255/60 is 27" & better suited for the front position on a bagged/dropped truck w/stock inner wheel wells.

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

SCOTI, I was just searching a bit for some info, and came across one of your post's where another member had a problem with hie front wheels hitting his lower A arm. He had 15'' wheels and your suggestion to him was to trim the arm. Although he had lowered springs on his, as I have bags. Do you think I will have the same problem and might have to trim my arms as well? I thought I was just about done with this truck. I sure hate to have to take everything apart to do this a second time... Your thoughts?

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

With 2 1/2" dropped spindles, depending on the offset of the wheel, you might run into clearance issues. This is why I went with 2" dropped spindles. Here's a pic with 15x8, 4.5" BS (IIRC) GM wheels with 2" dropped spindles. Close but enough clearance.

http://gallery.lisaandmike.org/album...l/PICT6315.jpg

As for tire size, I ran 235/70-15 on my 65 truck and I liked it but I wasn't bagged (3" drop). Rear are 255/70-15.

http://gallery.lisaandmike.org/album...0/PICT5969.jpg

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

If you look on post # 20 of this same thread, I mounted the wheel when I got the clearance issue with the caliper done. If you notice the bottom of the wheel with LCA, it cleared but may not be enough when I lay the front to its full travel. Id like to figure out what tire size I'm going to use first mount them on the wheels and try it all out before I think I need to trim the arms. Then If I got a, I got a..... Still I wanted to go with the white wall look for my truck. I love that old school look, so the tire size's are still open...

Thanks........

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Opps.... missed that. You have tons of clearance from what I see, way more then I do.

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

The thing about wheel clearance is if they clear (don't rub the a-arms) @ ride height, they'll clear when dumped.

It is common to require some trimming on lower a-arms. Usually it is because of back-spacing and/or 3" spindles which really bring the lip of the rim close to the lower BJ position. It's a simple fix & doesn't require disassembly if done carefully.

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Thank you guys. Will take heath, and proceed as necessary...... To be continued.....

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Well quick up date on the disk conversion. Things are going a little slow, I decided to bleed the system, one man style and discovered a leak on the rear right 1/4'' line than connects to the rubber hose. A small pin hole type of leak. It never ends.......Well I need to replace that line, but its one continuous brake line all the way to the proportioning valve. With its curves and turns it measures 172''...Does that sound right? Can I get a replacement line that long? Or can I just use a union and splice together? The rest of the line is in good shape. Any suggestions on replacing that line? And as long as I'm here asking, I also noticed that the center support where The drive shaft goes through has some sort of support up towards the top of that through hole if you will. I'm thinking I'm going to need to cut or grind that piece out so I can have more wiggle room for that shaft when I lay the truck. Did any of you run in to what might be a problem? I saw that CPP has a support that didn't have that small piece in the center,specifically for lowered trucks. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about.....This is on my truck...I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but like I mentioned earlier in the thread this is all new to me, but thanks to all of you here I learned quite a bit... Thanks a bunch....

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

That center bracket is for a carrier bearing that's used on a two piece driveshaft. If you're running a 1 piece shaft, that will need to go.

The rear brake line should have a union inside of the right frame rail underneath the cab area. You can unscrew it there and replace just the rear section. It's well less than 170".

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

Thanks Tx Firefighter , I didn't see a union, but I'll look again, its been a trying day today, I might have missed it. Would it be a problem if I just spliced a another union near where the hole leak is? That would make thinks a whole lot easier......

Re: Disk Brake conversion mistake?
 

It should be there unless some previous owner has completely replaced the lines and did it all with one solid piece. I'd bet it's there though.

You can absolutely use a union if you need to. Just make sure its a proper one with double flares on the lines. None of that compression fitting stuff on a brake line.