Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I have a 1957 3100 that has been converted to 4 wheel drive. It currently has a 305 engine and a SM465 manual transmission. I have front disc and rear drum brakes. I am looking to upgrade the stock manual brake system to a dual bowl master cylinder with a booster. I want to keep the master cylinder mounted under the truck. I have found several different companies selling the complete conversion kits (master cylinder, booster, bracket, and proportioning valve) and some state that it is for automatic transmissions only and others don't specify. I have measured the space under the truck and cant see where i would have any issue other than the parking brake cable being in the way. I have searched about this conversion and found a lot of good information. Nothing that I have found has been for a manual transmission truck though. My question is can these conversion kits be used with a manual transmission or is there one out there that is specifically for a manual?

Any information is greatly appreciated. If this has already been answered and you can direct me to the right thread that would be great also.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

Use the search box above checked to this site and search for "underframe booster", lots of threads come up. I solved some of the clearance issues by fabbing my own and moving the mc and booster back. It also helps get the fill access door behind the cab support.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=5726004

Thanks. I will keep searching. I know there is a lot of information about this on this site. I was hoping to find a bolt on kit for a manual transmission truck on an easy way to adapt the automatic kits because I don't think I have the skills to make the brackets. I prefer to do as much by myself as possible but not being able to weld really limits me on certain things. I have looked at yours and a few other people that made their own. Just a little hesitant to try that myself right now.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I have the under floor power brake setup on my truck. I have a straight shift on the column so my transmission is probably smaller than yours but I doubt that space would be a problem. I bought my kit from Tuckers but it is a CPP kit. Installation was not difficult as you only have to drill a couple of holes in the frame, and of course plumb the brake lines. I am very satisfied with it.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I forgot to mention this in my previous post, but if you do install the booster be sure to install a charcoal filter in the vacuum line. It doesn't come with the kit and I don't think the instructions mention it.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I will take another look at Tuckers.

I have never heard of a charcoal filter for the vacuum line. Thanks for the info

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

its a must for under floor boosters

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

Googled and found the reason, fuel fumes eat the rubber inside the booster. any particular kind, googling doesn't seem to pull up anything.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

The ones I use are Delco 17056236 or DORMAN 80195 and yes the gases condense and eat the booster diaphragm and seals especially on the cheaper import aftermarket boosters. American rebuilds like A1-Cardone seem to last longer but still should have that filter inline

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

Thanks for posting the number, suspect it will help a lot of us.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I'm sure you've seen them as every vehicle that has a vacuum booster has one. You will recognize it when you see it. These filters are directional and position sensitive. They should be mounted vertically with the specified end toward the carburetor.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

$10 at Oreillys for the Dorman PN

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

i upgraded to front discs and dual MC ( under floor )...but no power booster, and it works just fine. the pedal feels good. brakes work great. just my 2 cents :)

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I lied Oreillys does not stock want $6 shipping fee. Try two, Autozone says they have the Delco one for $7 and change. I ran my disc/drum from 85-2000 without a booster, only got a little scary off road when maintaining max pressure along with other tasks got complicated.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I should point out tho, I live on south shore of Long Island. Very flat roads
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I have considered just upgrading to a dual bowl master cylinder with manual brakes. The stock setup works very well but I upgraded to disk brakes on the front so i want to get the proper master cylinder and proportioning valve for the disc/drum setup. I have a manual brake car which works fine but I plan on using this truck to haul stuff and possibly tow trailers if needed. My thoughts were just go to power brakes and get it all done at once. I think power brakes will fit my plans for the truck better than manual brakes. And I live in the mountains.

Thanks for the additional info on the filters. Its always nice to know what exactly the parts do and why they are needed. I will make sure to pick one up when I get the other parts.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

My dual mc does also have the proportion valve . Just no booster .
I did my upgrade in two phases... When I first got my truck a couple of years ago, it had drum/drum and original single mc.... And the mc started to fail.. That's scary !
So I upgraded the mc, and kept the drum brakes for a while . Just recently put discs in the front .
I'm not educated in booster vs no booster.... If you're going to be towing , you might as well go for the booster
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

Auto zone Dorman PN 80195 on the HELP! rack. $7.19 w/o sales tax.

Russell, I saw vertical mount. High up towards the manifold, or is low by the bottom of the fire wall ok?

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

Id keep it as high as possible, as close to the carburetor as possible. I've never seen this written anywhere but it seems logical to me to mount it this way since the purpose of the filter is to keep gas fumes away from the booster, and gas fumes sink to lower levels when possible. This also looks like the way the factory mounts them also.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

That was my thinking too. Thanks for the confirmation. Patrick

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I have power disc brakes on my "54 3100 and I have a manual Borg Warner 5 speed, but I don't have 4WD or a V8. It works great. So the manual trans shouldn't bother you. It may be another case with a transfer case, a V8, and 4WD extras. look into getting an add on adjustable rear proportioning valve. Most proportioning valves in the kits are for cars, not empty bed, lite in the rear old trucks. Mine is made by Wilwood, & I can dial the rear brakes down. I found out the hard way, the truck traded ends coming into a busy 4 way light after a drizzle. Thank God, Jesus was with me that day. When your done try your brakes on a wet street and check for rear wheel lock up. Thanks to all of you for the info on the booster filter, I'll pick one up.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

We put a CPP kit on the '54 we're doing. The kit states it won't work with a manual trans.
We're running the stock 6 cyl/4 speed and the clearance issue seems to be the clutch linkage to the brake pedal pivot. We had to trim the end of the L shaped link after we got the clutch adjusted.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

Old crow jogged my memory, It seems I did have to monkey with the linkage between the booster and the pedal assembly. It's been 3 or 4 years. I don't remember it taking up to much of my time.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I had tried to measure everything under the truck and I couldn't see where there would be any issues with the booster fitting in. I have a divorce mounted transfer case (np202) so there won't be any fitment issues with it. It is far enough back on the truck. The clutch linkage seemed to be in front of where the brake components would mount but it would make sense if the pivot points were the problem area. My clutch and brake pedal pivot on different pegs but are very close. I was thinking if I got a kit that uses the stock brake pedal I might be alright.

Thanks again for all of the information, advice, and suggestions. I don't have any experience with these trucks other than what I am getting as I work on this one. This site has been a huge help with several questions.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

Here are some pictures of the booster linkage on my '54 3100 with a Borg Warner 5 speed. I don't know how close it is to your set up. Hope this helps.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I found a nice photo of the carbon filter on the web.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I went to a firewall mounted booster. I haven't even plumbed brakes yet and I am *so* glad I did. Access to brake components just sucks @ the frame rail and clutters it up.
I know firewall mounted brakes aren't as pretty but if you just need it to work and be simple, Ebay will sell you a firewall brake kit for under $150 shipped.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I used a Hydroboost unit and master I got from a 96 Chevy dually.
First, I cut off the master cylinder bore on the cast iron original master cylinder and used it for the pedal support.
Then I went to a metal fabricator and bought a piece of steelone foot long, 5 inches wide, 1/4 inch thick, and a piece of one inch flat stock that was 3/16 thick and 14 inches long.
I had the metal fabricator guy bend the big piece in a 90 degree angle, and on one side, drilled 4 3/8 holes and mounted it to the inside frame rail. On the other side of the piece of metal, I used a hole saw, and made the large hole for the hydroboost to go through, and the little 3/8 holes to mount it. Next, I drilled a 3/8 hole in each end of the strap piece, and bent the strap at each end to go from the frame to the outermost corner of the 90 degree metal piece. Then I just bolted everything together, and went to Ace Hardware and bought the rod and threaded the ends to work with the brake clevis and the booster.
I had to make hydraulic lines that went inside the frame rail on the left side to get the power steering fluid to and from the hydroboost unit. I made my own brake lines and what I couldn't make, I bought at o Reilly's.
I added the ten pound check valve for the rear brakes, and aadjustable pressure reducer, and a 2 PSI check valve for the front brakes. Started it up and after purging the air bubbles, hasn't quit on me in 5 years.

Can you tell me what year bellhousing you are running? I am hooking up a 292 to a t5 in my 1950 and the bellhousing is from a late 50s truck. My clutch fork is straight so no clearance like yours. Thinking if I can find a different fork it might help.

Thanks!
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

Chevyguyase showed the way to do it. Use the stock pedals, Build a bracket that moves the booster and mc back a bit for room and build an immensely strong but adjustable push rod.

The "only works with an automatic" is when you buy their bracket and pedal., They don't sell one with a clutch pedal.

If we ask nice he might show us some shots of the bracket he built and how he has the booster mounted.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I lightened up his photo a bit so you can see it easer. It's the same exact setup that I have in my 48 that sits on a 54 frame.

The rod that goes forward from the clutch pedal has an eye on the other end that goes around the leg of the L shaped piece that also is the clutch adjustment that fastens to the fork. Save the photo to you computer and expand it and study it a bit.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I lightened up his photo a bit so you can see it easer. It's the same exact setup that I have in my 48 that sits on a 54 frame.

The rod that goes forward from the clutch pedal has an eye on the other end that goes around the leg of the L shaped piece that also is the clutch adjustment that fastens to the fork. Save the photo to you computer and expand it and study it a bit.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

Hi, the great Mr48Chev mentioned me, I have a 1954 3100 with a t5 with a 250 6 cyl. a/c and power disc brakes. My power brake booster is under the truck mounted on the frame. The kit is from CPP. It was a complete kit, booster, brackets, master cyl, combination valve. Be careful , the proportioning part of this valve must be for a car, because if you drive it in the rain it will go down the road sideways. guess how I know. So add an adjustable proportioning valve on the line to the rear brakes. I used a Wilwood. If I had to do it over again I would mount it on the firewall. I would also get rid of the original emergency brake system that I fought hard to keep. My bell housing has the engine mounts attached to it and had a 4 speed granny trans attached, I don't know what it is out of. My new project is I'm putting in an electric power steering unit (EPAS) from a 2005 Prius. Wish me luck.

So I assume you would go to the firewall due to ease of access? Or are there other reasons? I like the clean firewall which is the only reason I’m trying to keep it underneath but I can see how it can be a pia!
Now why would you drop the original ebrake? I would have thought it might be one of the more straight forward items to work with.

I have to admit if there were some cool pedal s that didn’t stick out like a sore thumb on the firewall or toe board I would really consider dropping the originals.
You will have to let me know how the epas works out . I like the concept of the mod and you don’t need to hassle with the hydraulic aspects…..that being said I’m sure it will have its own but let me know.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

Two main reasons for not going on the firewall. First firewall mounted boosters and master cylinders are just flat ugly clutter in and engine compartment . I didn't spend 400 bucks on finned aluminum to have the view blocked by ugliness. That and with the intake and 4 barrel on my 292 I have a clearance issue.,

Second is just as you saw in the photos it is a lot easier to hook up clutch linkage with the original pedals.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

The E brake on the early trucks were built like an old iron bridge. the newer trucks are just cables and a ratcheting pedal. The original brake complicates the sheet metal work on the left front floor and the superstructure under the floors It uses rods and a huge heavy pipe (bell crank) that goes from frame rail to frame rail. When you hit any bumps that big heavy pipe rattles. The same with the Master cyl on the fire wall it is just seems to be a lot easier to put it on the firewall. It's done now and I don't have any complaints now that it is done. Also my thoughts on that filter on the power booster vacuum hose you guys are talking about. If You are running a carb. try to mount it higher than the carb like in one of the pictures above. especially if you're putting the booster under the truck like I have it. I don't think it's good idea to run a hose from your carb straight down to a booster under your truck with out first running it higher than the carb. and then down. enjoy your day.

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

Would the problem be solved with a hydraulic T/O bearing?

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I guess im just old because I dont understand what all the problem is about power brakes with a manual trans. MY booster and m/c are mounted under the floor.
Ive got a 327 with M21 4 spd in my '49, with power brakes.
I got a kit from POL that works great. Its BB T4755. Corvette m/c with prop valves. I got this kit because with adding 10 # check valves in both front & rear lines. I can still use the drum brakes front & rear until I convert to discs. The mounting bracket bolts to the stock bracket on the frame. Im using the stock brake & clutch pedal. The clutch linkage is the stock rod going forward to a dog leg on the clutch release arm. none of this micky mouse hydraulic throw out bearing stuff. just pure mechanical linkage. As far as clearance, I think the M21 is smaller than a slush box.
Admitedly it wasnt a perfect bolt in. I had to modify the brake pedal to get better pedal pressure. But it was worth the work. Also, POL was great to deal with

Re: Power brakes with manual transmission
 

I don't know about Micky mouse but certainly simple.