4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Guys, I am in need of some help and this section gets a lot more attention.

I originally made a thread in the blazer forum about an issue with my steering. Long story short, after I completed my swap my steering will not correct itself back to center after turning. It turns and stays turned which makes it very sketchy to drive.

New 2.5 lift (all spring) with extended pitman arm (additional drop)
New poly body mounts / transmission / transfer case mounts
New tie rod ends / drag link ends / drop pitman arm. drag link is perfectly even.
New wheel bearings / new upper and lower ball joints. The spindles move freely and are not stuck by any means.
New intermediate shaft. New U-joint and rag joint.
Hydroboost set up using the flow control valve from factory power steering pump.
Alignment is good.
I've had both a brand new 18:1 and 15:1 box on it.
Caster is good (positive caster)
Camber is level.
I've got some 18x9 wheels on it with 4.53 back spacing and brand new Toyo AT 325/60/18s.

Here is the other thread I started but haven't found a fix yet. I have not tried a different set of wheels since she has been back together. My original wheels were rusted with dry rotted tires so I don't have them any more.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=688321

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I had a similar problem in my ’72 K10 after installing new ball joints. Had two shops look at it because of how alarming it was to drive. But after putting miles on it, everything settled in, the ball joints loosened up a little, and the steering started centering like it should. Maybe you've got something else going on, but I wouldn't be surprised if it settles in over time.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

You say the caster is good, what does good mean?

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

caster is between 4-6 degrees on the positive side both sides.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I know you say the spindles move freely with the new ball joints, but how freely? We run into this issue on a lot of newer solid axle dodges after they get new ball joints. The new ball joints are tight enough that it causes memory steer. And as stated above usually it goes away after putting some miles on them. What brand of ball joints did you use?

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

They move freely enough that if I slapped them hard enough they would swing lock to lock. I torqued everything down to GM spec and used the correct spanner for the upper joint. I used MOOG on everything.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Well that sounds like everything there is good. I've seen a few different steering boxes cause steering to stick, but it sounds like you've covered that. Maybe something is going on with your steering column causing the steering to stick?

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I just read your original thread where you were checking your caster. Did you ever take it to an alignment shop to see all of your alignment angles? Your caster angle may differ on an alignment machine from what you are measuring.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

No. I have not done that yet. That is one thing that I will try next. I've only got about 150 miles on the new set up so I guess I could keep driving it, but this seems / acts extremely odd. I've driven jeeps with full hydro-steering and it almost feels like that at times. Constantly having to steer / counter steer. I appreciate the help.

Any other ideas, keep them coming.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I can tell you that once I "adjusted" my steering box too tight, and it wouldn't return to center properly after that. Otherwise, only thing I can think to do would be to disconnect everything and check for binding, then check as you re-assemble each component. Check the adjustment of the sleeve in the upper ball joint again too. Good luck.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

That was also my thought as soon as the thread started..... but I didn't post it because the OP has tried two different new steering boxes, with the same results. Still could be worth checking..... I'm at a loss here, sounds like everything has been done, and done correctly, but the problem is still there. I am not familiar with hydroboost setups -- any chance there could be something there causing the problem?

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I'm gonna bet the issue is with your ball joints. I had the same issue after I rebuilt the front end on my 1973 K20. I followed every procedure straight from the '73 assembly manual. I also went with all Moog parts. My solution was to torque the ball joints to specs, loosen them, retorque them again to specs, loosen them again, and retorque them again. If I remember, I did this three times. It was weird, but that is exactly what it took. Please report your results. I hope this works.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Click on page 6 of my build thread, post #144. I hope this works for you.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

axle ujoints good? they sometimes cause that, as well as the box adjusted too tight.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I didn't adjust the box on either gear box I bought from RedHead. RedHead told me with their boxes being brand new it would cause damage to them.

I have never touched the front u-joints. They are what was in it when I bought it a year ago. However it drove ok (nothing like this) when I first bought it.

I will say when I am going down the highway at 55ish and let off the skinny pedal, the truck wonders all over the road. You guys think I could put a sway bay on it?

Still going to get an alignment check. My rear is a bit higher than the front probably due to new leaf springs so I also wonder if it is causing too much force on the front axle?? Just rambling/ thinking out loud...

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Sway bars have nothing to do with the conditions you are describing. They can be a worthwhile addition, but their purpose is to improve the vehicle's handling by reducing the amount of body lean while cornering.


That sounds like a crucial next step, in fact probably should have been done earlier and saved yourself some headaches.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Guys, been busy with life stuff, but alignment (toe settings) came back fine. Shop told me (Firestone) that they can't check caster / camber on these since they are so old. What's next?

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Firestone must have a very basic alignment machine, or they just don't know how to use it. Our shop has a hunter alignment machine and I've aligned my trucks on it before with no issues, it shows me toe, camber, and caster easily. I'd recommend finding a shop that is capable of getting camber and caster readings on your truck.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

On a straight-axle 4x4? Not doubting you.... I just don't know, other than they are far different from 2WD trucks.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Yes sir it does. On my 76 K10 I used to have and my 70 K2500 I have now. Hunter doesn't provide any caster specs, but the machine will still allow you to do a caster sweep and see the measurements. Even on the 2wd trucks they don't provide caster specs because they want you to measure the frame angle.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I think with the straight axle 4x4s, you can check the caster and camber, it's just not adjustable so easily. These settings are built in and you would have to bend the axle/knuckle to change them. You should still be able to get readings though.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

After looking at the pics in your first post I would be a little skeptical about the castor angle. I know the gauge reads positive but the top of those studs are not truly flat. I would try some angle shims first just because they are cheap and easy to install. Your pinion angle looks like you have some room to role the axle back. Like said earlier the caster and camber can be checked by a quality shop on a 4x4 just not easily adjusted.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

well I put some 2.5 degree shims in today and the difference is hardly noticeable.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I'm 99% sure its your ball joints, I had the same issue with the Moog ball joints on my 2002 F250. Did everything right and it still would do the same thing, I ended up replacing just about every other thing in my front end thinking it couldnt be the new Moog ball joints! Drove it that way for almost a year (its my tow vehicle) and put maybe 2000 miles on it and it only got just a bit better. I finally decided to replace the ball joints with some high dollar dynatrac ones and guess what??? It fixed the problem, the brand new Moog ball joints were crap right out of the box! I did some research and found out that Moog had been sold and they started making there stuff in Mexico for a few years before they realized there product had turned to junk and I guess they have since fixed the problem but the old stock was still being sold.

You could try and do what someone else suggested and unbolt and torque them a few times to see if that helps. Even when I jacked my truck up to replace the Moogs on my truck I still couldnt actually feel the problem or any drag on the ball joints but boy the difference when I drove it was night and day after the Dynatracs where installed.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Thanks - I'm going to try the unbolt / re-torque method about 10 times and try that first. If not I'll tear it down again and try some different ball joints. If anyone has a different recommendation for ball joints let me know. Dynatrac doesn't make them for my rig. I may just try the house brand ???

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Well I did the tighten method a few times, and even replaced all the new ball joints, with more new ball joints. No difference.

Some have said the scrub radius because of my wheels/tires?

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Alright....I bypassed the factory torque specs and torqued to feel. My knuckles turn very freely now. I put everything back together and she is a different truck! Also took out all the shims. She is back to factory setting now. Thanks for all the help to track down this monster.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I was under the impression the knuckles turned freely before. But glad you finally got it figured out and can enjoy driving it now.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Are you sure your box is not setup wrong? I don't know what redhead is but a quality box like Lares is rebuilt in USA to factory spec. I have one of their boxes in my truck. I've had your problem before and it was the box being setup wrong (Not necessarily setup too tight).

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I have maybe driven this 50 miles since my last post and it seems to be doing the same thing again. Loosening the ball joints even more DID help, but it still won't return to center and is driving like $hit. Weird thing is I swapped out my power steering pump for a new one because it was making some noise, now this new one is starting to whine already! (fluid is fine).

I have not swapped out the u-joints in the front axle shafts, and have not put new bearings in.

RedHead boxes are built back to factory spec. I have actually tried 2 of them (different ratios) to see if there was any difference.

Any "new" ideas?

I had the axle out of the truck when I took it to get gears installed. Center pins are all fine. I have even tried multiple shims to correct the caster....frustrating!

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I will also add that the spindles turn freely when there is no weight on them. I have no idea what they are doing once I set the truck down.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

OK, I'm going to ask a couple questions that I am not positive of the answer here, but it's worth asking.

When the front springs were installed, were they installed the correct direction? Some springs have the center bolt offset to one end of the spring. I don't know what these are from the factory. I also don;t know if the bushings are the same on both ends that would even allow such a thing.

If the differential is now on a different center of the spring, your caster would be affected. Maybe the ideal location for YOUR truck with those wheels, tires, lift is closer to a +1° caster instead of +4° to +6°

It may be worth checking.

Also, did you install a new steering damper with it? If so, is the cylinder bad?

What does the book say for the correct caster spec for this truck?

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

The springs are ok to install either way per Skyjacker. Mine came with the larger bushing sleeve for the front and smaller for the rear for the shackle and that is how they are installed right now.

Factory is 4-6 caster angle. I have tried both 2.5 degree and 4 degree with no change.

I put a damper on it for about 3 days, it has been off ever since. It didn't change anything either.

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

How fast of a return are you getting? any at all? The tire is just about 13'' wide, and how centered is the tire over the center of the wheel bearings?

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Hardly any return. You turn, it stays. I am constantly "wheeling" this thing while driving. My driver side tire maybe sticks out 1.5" and passenger is 1.25" just by taking a rough measurement. I forget how far the wheel bearings are stuck in there but seems like the bearing is right in the center of the tire. Thoughts?

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Sorry to drag up over year old thread but did purchase 1970 4x4 Jimmy last summer and mine appears to have same issue with axel sticking out driver side/in on passenger side, approximately same distance. To boot I also have about 4-5 degree positive camber on both fronts(rudimentary measurement). Figuring on needing to find an alignment shop that can actual work on these in order to make strait again, most shops in my area wont touch anything from before 1990. Did you ever figure this out, was it just ball joints? Thank you!


Josh

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

I have lived with it. Changed out joints etc. The sticking out on the front axle is common on these, (just the way they are). I have contemplated taking my hydroboost off and seeing if that is the issue or not. Just haven't had the time. Nobody up here will touch them at an alignment shop except to adjust the "toe"

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Well thanks for the fast response! I've been reluctant to replace ball joints as I still have the manual drums up front and don't want to put the work in on something I might replace. My steering is a little wonky as well but chalking that up to the ball joints for now. I will say however that this thing will turn on a dime, wonder if the camber out was an old school way of making them turn better. If I find something of value Ill hit you back up. Thank you again, and you really have a nice truck BTW!

Josh

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Been digging into the front a little and found a couple problems that you probably looked at already, but here they are:
-Missing left front leaf spring pin, let the front shift to the left a little
-Bent front spindles, both making positive camber
-pass side frame shackle mount...hard to explain but hole through mount not centered and forcing the shackle to push rear of spring towards driver side-need new
-rear pass side hanger wasted.
I loosened all the bolts and replaced the spring pin and that helped move the axel back where it should be. Not all the way there but closer. Did you change out your inframe shackle bushings?

Re: 4x4 steering issue - won't return to center
 

Ever resolve this problem? I have a similar problem with my '72 K2500. I have owned it since '04 and when I test drove it I commented on how it wanted to wander. The guy said I'd get used to it :rolleyes:. Bought the truck and did tie rod ends, drag link ends, and ball joints, still wandered. I have serviced the bearings regularly and they are in good condition with proper adjustment. It had hand me down tires the whole time I've owned it till last summer when I put new 8" Wheel Vintiques and Goodyear Duratracs. Way back when I was checking play with someone working the wheel and noticed slop at the sector shaft/pitman arm. I replace the pitman arm with a good one and installed a rebuilt power steering box a friend gave me, with little use, when he went to crossover. I did notice the shocks it came with were way shot so attributed all this to the road steering my truck due to the shocks and uneven tires. But with all that new it is no better, if not worse. It's a real workout keeping it straight. I never had this in the many K/20s I've owned, but my next consideration is going to crossover steering to see if this is all bump steer. It does do better on the flat hiway, but I am still constantly correcting.

Neither of us have touched our axle u-joints. I never figured them in since this is all in 2wd. But they do steer with the truck 100% of the time and I guess they could be binding. Easy enough to change, so I'll try that and try putting another steering box on. That has been on a long time and maybe it was worn or not rebuilt well