Power Steering issues
 

Hi all. I just got done installing a CPP Power Steering kit in my '59 and have some concerns. With the truck standing still, the power steering is real nice and easy at rpm's higher than 1K, but at idle ( 550 rpm ), it feels like my old stock steering needing me to be Popeye again. Is it a bad power steering pump?

Re: Power Steering issues
 

Try 675 rpm in drive .

Or perhaps smaller diameter P/S pulley to increase the pump speed .

The other thing to look at is the P/S pressure at idle.

Did you install a flow restrictor in the GM pump ?

Re: Power Steering issues
 

Hi, thanks for the reply. Even at 675, it drags, I did not intentionally install a flow restrictor, I used whatever the kit came with. What does a flow restrictor look like?

Re: Power Steering issues
 

Have you had the front tires off the ground and operated the power steering full left and right? Make sure the system if fully bleed? Mine works above 500 RPM. Also, have you checked pump pressure? Do you have a cooler inline?

Re: Power Steering issues
 

Hi. Yes, I lifted the front tires off the ground ad primed the system as should. How do you bleed the system?

Re: Power Steering issues
 

here is a quick video that explains a few things

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uS9gvGHH6U

another which shows with engine running

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1GgQ-3asJQ

those vac pumps are actually pretty cheap and come in handy for bleeding brakes and all sorts of other things around the shop. try to get one with the little canister for collecting fluid before it gets to the pump.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

I had a similar issue with my steering after installation and it turns out the front suspension needed a good cleaning and greasing. The truck had been sitting for a few years and everything had stiffened up. I greased the kingpins and tie rods and boom, like a brand new truck. I actually had to reduce the pressure in the pump it was so easy. Worth a try.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

flow restrictors look like this and screw into the pump where the pressure line attaches. mosty used for rack and pinion applications where a gm pump is used on a ford rack. not sure what the cpp box pressure is supposed to be.

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60791/10002/-1


what kit do you have, the box mounted on the outside of the frame in front of the tire or the box mounted inside the frame where the original box was mounted? also, what pump do you have and what is the pulley size? does the pump "buzz" or whine when it is running? that is an indicator of a pump that is starving for fluid or has air in the fluid. sometimes turning lock to lock and then shutting it off and walking away till morning will allow the bubbles to find their way out. that is the ling method because it may take several of those lock to lock turns to flush all the air out of the box.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

The CPP kit that uses the GM box shouldn't need a flow restriction.

You are using a good quality and preferably Genuine GM power steering fluid? From working on a lot of power steering boxes they don't do their best with ATF.

Just thinking what did the pump come off if you used a donor pump? Some GM pumps came with different pressure ratings depending on the vehicle they were originally assemble for. The old style from the 70's probably won't be an issue but if you have one of the newer type II with remote reservoir it could be a low pressure unit for a rack or a variable pressure unit for a performance car that reduces pressure at speed to control the twitchy steering thing.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

Thanks for all the replies. So here are some pics of my setup. I also measured the diameter of the power steering pulley and it is 5 3/4”. I’m begining to think my pump is not correct, it does not look like the pump that is provided from CPP. I got mine from Rock Auto, it was for an early Impala with 283. I also have a pick of the adapter for the high pressure off the back of the pump. I did not do the vacuum bleeding yet be ause I don’t have one yet. The fluid I am using is not ATF.

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/...psij6zeguk.jpg
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/...psfbbrc91k.jpg

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/...psymynsfnb.jpg

Re: Power Steering issues
 

Well that isn't the setup I thought you had but that looks like the standard early GM pump that should put out plenty of pressure.

Unless one of your hose adapters has a restrictive orifice in it because it is the wrong fitting even though it has the correct threads I'm at a loss on this one.

Still I'd think that would work the opposite in that you would not have power assist at an idle or low speed and it would work better at higher speeds.

Have you got a part number on the pump or kit that one can research a bit?

Looking on the CPP site it looks like you have this steering box kit CPP5559PSK-OC Plus this pump. 19-6168SB-6P

This is off Ebay but if they included this flow control valve to compensate for a MII rack and pinion it might give the results that are causing the issues you are running into. https://www.ebay.com/itm/CPP-Power-S...4383.l4275.c10

Re: Power Steering issues
 

short of doing a pressure and flow test at the box inlet, I would be suspect of the fitting where the pressure hose goes to the pump. those types of fittings don't usually have a thin wall so the bore size inside the fitting can act like a flow restricter. maybe yank the fitting out and see what the bore is and compare to the inside diameter of the hose. sad to say but a new hose with the correct end for your pump may be the fix there should that be a problem.
one other thing I would add when you get it all figured out is a heat shield between the steering box and the exhaust manifiold. you don't wanna cook the box due to overheating.
I guess the easy way of testing without pressure guages and fittings etc would be to install a known good pump and see what happens. you could also check the pump relief/flow valve to see if it is damaged or whatever. if you happen to have another pump like that you could swap out that part and see if it makes a difference.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

just looking at the hose connections, do you have the pressure line connected to the right port?
scroll down on this link and see possibly the same set up with the hoses reversed, pressure line is closest to the input shaft. do you have the instructions for the install, do they mark inlet and outlet?
saginaw boxes usually have the inlet port furthest away from the firewall but not sure about the 400 series boxes. there is usually a check valve in the outlet port so not sure if it would even work if the lines were wrong. anyway, just something I noticed on another site.

https://talk.classicparts.com/thread...00-truck.6832/

Re: Power Steering issues
 

I was thinking the same, but I looked at mine and it is set up the same and works fine. I'll have to find my CPP instructions. I believe it was listed.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

I found this in the installation instructions.

“ Connect the power steering hoses. There are arrows cast into the steering box that indicate the direction the fluid flows. The pressure hose connects to the port that is farther from the rag joint. The return hose connects to the port that is closer to the rag joint. “

So mine looks like it is set up right. I am going to call CPP and see what they say. The instructions are a little vague when it comes to installing fittings and don’t say that certain fittings restrict flow. I have another new Saginaw pump I can install. So I will see what they say and go from there. I appreciate everythings input.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

So I called CPP and deacribed my symptoms and they are pretty convinced it is a power steering pump failing. I also asked them if any of the fittings they provided with the kit are restricting and they said no. I have another Saginaw pump at home and will install it over the weekend. I’ll post my result afterwords, hopefully this fixes it.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

I have the same power steering on my 56 and it acted just like yours. The pump was a rebuilt unit from rockauto as well. I just figured the pump needed to be run in so I drove it and now it works fine. I'm very happy with the cpp kit. Chris

Re: Power Steering issues
 

I have 59 with the CPP Toyota 400 box and early PS pump. with it in the air, of course no problems. on the ground, running or off it is harder to turn than stock was. done the lock to lock about 40 times, no difference. I can see a few small bubbles move thru but no real flow thru pump. pump is rebuilt. any one else have this problem?

Re: Power Steering issues
 

I rebuilt a lot of those pumps when I worked in a Pontiac dealership in the 70's and there really is't much to them or much to go wrong.

They have what is known as a ring, rotor and vanes and the vanes fit in slots in the rotor and act as wipers on the inside of the ring that is shaped so that the fluid is pushed from the inlet inside the reservoir to the hose . I had to borrow this off the net and creds to the folks who have the photo in their add.

You can see the vanes in the slots in the rotor and can visualize how they should slide out to the inner surface of the ring as the rotor turns When they get to the tight clearance spots the fluid is pushed though a port that leads to the pressure hose. What I am thinking is that those vanes may be sticking a bit due to the pump sitting on the shelf for an extended time or due to what ever they are coated with gumming up. They should free up when driving a bit.

I have to reiterate again that those pumps really want high quality power steering fluid and ATF while it functions doesn't work well for smooth operation or having a quiet pump.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

like mr48 says, good quality p/s fluid may help along with some rotational time to "wear in" those vanes. otherwise, you have nothing to lose by disassembling the pump and checking those vanes to ensure they move easily in the slots. you could check the pressure relief valve at the same time. since it works better when revved up I would assume the pump isn't working properly or the fluid lubricity hasn't allowed the vanes to slip in their slots like normal. run it at a higher rpm with the steering at full lock so the pump has to work hard, that may just "wear it in". just keep an eye on the p/s fluid temp. it would be cheap to take it apart since you would simply be topping up the fluid. I have seen rebuilt pumps do the exact same thing and get better with time. I have also pulled a few rebuilt ones apart and found a small burr in the vane slots or simply tight vanes that won't allow the vanes to slide out properly to displace the fluid correctly.
here is a link to show how to disassemble. haven't watched it, just seen it and copied/pasted for you. no big deal to tear apart, especially if you think it is the problem anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5JTghafe8s

Re: Power Steering issues
 

I'd have to agree that the slots in the ring may have some burrs that didn't get dressed up before assembly.
The trickiest part of disassembling and reassembling one of those pumps is getting the small O rings on the back of the pump to stay in place while you put the canister back on. Those little buggers love to jump out of place when you go to put the can back on.

I'd suggest taking a couple of longer bolts with the same thread and put them through the retainer bolt holes to keep it lined up and life will be a lot easier.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

yep, the longer guide bolts or studs and possibly a little grease on the O rings to keep them where they should be. they are pretty simple units, really, so don't let a tear down scare you off.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

Update. Installed an A1 power steering pump off amazon and so far so good. The A1 pump looked to have a better quality rebuild than the Rock Auto, but it was more expensive. I’ll drive it a while and report back.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

Good to hear, enjoy it.

:bann:

Re: Power Steering issues
 

what was your new pump off of? mine looks like that.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

I have installed a new PS pump along with the NEW CPP kit, checked all hoses and pump flow. took return line off and pump works perfect, but still no power steering. bleed it several time running and not, no change. still worse than original box. any help would be appreciated. on thing I can think of is new box is bad. HELP!!!! before I take a sledge hammer to it.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

The pumps theselves are all pretty much the same inside and outside. it is the canisters Pulleys and pressure valves that are different.

That housing matches the one that was on my 71 GMC before I switched to the Cad 500 and the actual pump minus canister, pulley and pressure valve fit all of these.
AMERICAN MOTORS 1968-1974
BUICK 1961-1974
CADILLAC 1968-1974
CHEVROLET 1961-1974
CHRYSLER 1969-1974
DODGE 1963-1974
FORD 1972-1974
GMC 1966-1974
INTERNATIONAL 1972-1974
JAGUAR 1972-1979
JEEP 1972-1974
LINCOLN 1972-1974
MERCURY 1973-1974
OLDSMOBILE 1961-1974
PLYMOUTH 1965-1975
PONTIAC 1967-1974

I'm thinking that in 1975 they went to the pressed on pulley rather then the one that was held on with a nut and a key. Checking on the one for the 75 Cad 500 in my 75 that is correct, the 75's outside of Plymouth used a pump with a pressed on pulley.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

I can only offer sympathy. The PS pump is actually dead simple and pretty much works. I have to suggest the gearbox is the issue. I always replace the pump, box and hoses at the same time.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

Thanks guys. Everything on there is new, so I'm at a loss. I've built cars all my life and even owned R &P performance for 22 yrs. I've NEVER had anything I couldn't fix until now. The new box is all I can think of that's left. I used a used pump that I know worked, then rebuilt it, them went with New not rebuilt.
There is fluid flowing thru the box so I believe that's all it can be.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

when turned and held at one of the steering locks, does he pump whine and the hoses flex as if the internal pressure in the system is rising?
the only real way to tell would be to check the pressures. a gauge and some fittings is actually pretty cheap compared to changing a bunch of parts and not knowing for sure if those parts are actually faulty., a small piece of debris inside the valve in the box could be your culprit. a good reason to clean the area first before starting a job and also always flush the system with the return line dumping into separate container after a single part is replaced so that no contaminants have a chance to go downstream into the workings.
it is possible that the hydraulic valve inside the box is not working so the fluid is bypassing through the valve and out rather than through the valve and being directed to the appropriate side of the piston inside the box or rack.

https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/p...sure-test.html

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...ering-secrets/

Re: Power Steering issues
 

guess my next step is to take box off and check it out. everything is new and flushed, filled with new fluid and re-bleed the system. same thing. I appreciate the suggestions.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

well CCP thinks it's a bad box also so it leaves tomorrow to go bac to them for repair or replacement. Wish me luck, lol.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

Well I finally got another new box from CPP today. As soon as things dry out, I'll try again. wish me luck.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

Could you please provide a link to the A1 power steering pump off amazon you have working on the CPP setup. Looking to replace my used pump with a newer unit that has been verified to work. Thanks.

Re: Power Steering issues
 

I got mine from RockAuto.