Frame question
 

I'm looking at a 57 Apache, and it sits on a 79 Chevy truck frame. It looks like the tires are too wide for the truck, as they appear to be outside the fenders.

Since the original frame isn't there, what would be a good alternative frame? I don't want to bag it or drop it really low, just make it a few inches lower than it was when new and ride/drive better.

It has no drive train, so I'm thinking LS swap, getting the frame with the drive train and getting the truck to fit the frame might be the way to go.

Thoughts appreciated. Thanks.

Re: Frame question
 

try
trifive site for a free download of the factory assembly manual with all the frame drawings and dimensions.

55-59 chevrolet truck factory assembly manual

or this link

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...hgNerbXG4oM_J-
the stock frame if pretty flat except for the kickup over the rear axle and a little bit of slope ahead of the front axle. you could simply fab your own frame if need be. install a rear suspension of choice and a front suspension of choice. doesn't even need to be the stock width if you find a front end donor you like. try welders series for 4 link kits, rod ends, rods, brackets and you name it.

Re: Frame question
 

My bet is it wouldn't be terribly hard to find another '57 frame.

Re: Frame question
 

If you can weld, this looks pretty cool!!! https://www.nerdrods.com/php/frames_...C4_Stage_1.php

Re: Frame question
 

The assembly manual also shows how they recommend to check a frame for square. No body on top. That's if you happen to find a bare frame and wanna check it.
If you wanna buy a complete frame with Corvette suspension you could look at Canadian Hotrods. The USD would make it cheaper.

Re: Frame question
 

just so you know in case you find a donor frame from a later truck, 55-57 frames are a little shorter out front than the 58-59 frames. the rad support locations are also further from the firewall than the earlier ones. that isn't a big deal as the mounts can be changed to fit according to the assembly manual specs and then the frame can be cut off,same deal. the cab and box mount locations are in the same place as well as everything else I think. check the assembly manual for clarification though.
when I check a frame I like to have it bare, like without the body on top. then I mark the side to side center of each cross member, use tape if the frame is clean enough. then run a string or laser from the front mark to the rear mark. laser obviously works better. the marks should all line up. check from corner to corner but you will need an assistant for that who will ensure the tape is held the same for each dimension. 1/8" out of square is allowed. then check for sag or hump. who knows what these old trucks have gone through for accidents, especially when it is just the frame for sale. then, if all good, look for loose rivets, heavy rust behind things like shock mounts, rust that will be very deep through the frame. I have seen some where the rust was so bad behind a shock mount the sandblaster nearly went right through. check for crtacks as well. sometimes a wash at the car wash with hot water will reveal a crack as the rest of the frame dries around the crack, which holds water and shows a wet spot. rusty powder anywhere is a good indication that something is not tight. assume the axle and springs will be in need of repair or replacement. king pin wear, spring pin wear, rear axle bearings and seals, etc etc. not your first rodeo so I assume you know all that stuff
it would be great to hear you have another project.

Re: Frame question
 

My preference goes with an original frame and changing the suspension as I feel that it makes for a more valuable truck in the long run unless you can swing an aftermarket custom chassis. It doesn't matter what donor frame you stick under it it still has the stigma of being a Cheap build because that was original concept of frame swapping rather than suspension swapping, Cheap.

On the other hand I'd slide under it and see what kind of job they did on the frame swap an if it looks well done enough to use. A lot of the time those square body frames under other bodies are cobbled up messes. Around here they were sticking the 4x4 chasssis from the 73/87 trucks under just about anything back 25 years ago.

They do make short control arms for them but they run 1200 bucks or more for a set.

Re: Frame question
 

Thanks guys. I will look into all of these ideas. This is what I needed to continue thinking about this truck.

Re: Frame question
 

if you have the oportunity (I assume you haven't pulled the trigger on it yet) I would crawl under it and see if the main part of the body was modified to fit onto the newer chassis. the inner fenders and rad support may have been but that would likely not break the bank to buy new parts. repairing the main part of the body to be stock again could be the deal changer.
if looking to get a better ride and a bit lower than stock, with power steering and brakes (I assume discs on the front at least) then what would your plane be if you found an original frame? add on an aftermarket IFS and a better axle ratio out back?

Re: Frame question
 

Raven, I will definitely look under the cab. If I do get it and found an old frame, I would also want to go with the upgrades Russ mentioned. I'm not sure where to get them, but that would be what I looked for. If I can't find a stock frame to modify, then I have to look at other options, like a Tahoe swap or a custom frame.

Re: Frame question
 

I would be thinking that the chassis under it adds no value and I was buying the body nose and box with a title and make my offer accordingly unless the price is already real good. If you don't use the frame you can't really count on getting more than scrap price out of it unless it is a C 10 factory short bed chassis and then it might have some value.

I don't imagine hunting a decent 55/57 Chevy half ton in Texas is any easier now than it was in 1974 though. I wanted a big window in those days and they were either too rough or too expensive.

Re: Frame question
 

Mr48, you are right. I was thinking the frame was just to roll the parts around on until I find what I'm looking for. A shop locally has a 56 that they are going to put a high dollar frame under and the old frame is an option. I'm looking for an S10 frame to trade them out for it.

Re: Frame question
 

would an s10 frame be a little narrow for a task force truck? the s10 is something like 55 inches from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface, right? 54 and change actually?

Re: Frame question
 

After doing the 48 on an S10 frame, I think it's too narrow.

Re: Frame question
 

I have a 58 long bed frame sitting around my place

Re: Frame question
 

I appreciate the offer, but that drive dragging a trailer would be no fun.

I also located a frame about 3 hours away that is in good shape, so I think I'm going to move forward with the truck.

Thanks all!

Re: Frame question
 

post up some pics when you get it, if you get it, before doing any work on it. like as is just off the trailer kind of pics. the frame too.
are you thinking of lowering the stock solid axle on the new to you frame then or haven't crossed thaty bridge yet?

Re: Frame question
 

Raven, will definitely post some pics.

I'm looking at 2 trucks right now. One on an original frame and one without a frame, but I found a bare frame about 3 hours away, so I can go that way if I want.

We are taking the daughter and grandkids on a trip for the next 10 days, so not much will happen until we are back.

Re: Frame question
 

wow, you guys are flush with trucks down there, lol.
have fun with the family, sounds like a good time. how old are the grandkids?
maybe you need ALL those trucks and parts........

Re: Frame question
 

Grandkids are 7 and 10.

The trucks are NOT without issues.

Re: Frame question
 

you are buying a basket case, consider that in figuring out your price to offer. you'll end up spending a lot just on bolts to assemble it on the stock frame. do post up pics and the price you paid for it if you pull the trigger. i'm so out of touch with prices, i haven't bought a classic truck since the 80s. i believe i paid $2k for my 58 with newish paint at the time

Re: Frame question
 

Ogre, I will, but I have to say all of the ones I've been looking at don't have paint and are not in drivable shape.

The cheapest one I've found is 4500. It's a big window, but something fell on the top and the whole top and the tops of both doors are bent to the riders side, neither the front or back glass will fit. I can't make myself get serious about this one. The others are more expensive.

Re: Frame question
 

I think you will find an S10 frame will then be too narrow in track width to look right unless you use some wider wheels and tires. They look ok under AD's but those are narrower. The '79 frame will have a wider track than the original '57. Depends on the wheel and tire combo too. Have you considered maybe getting wheels with more backspacing? This may be easier than a complete frame swap if all works well now.

Re: Frame question
 

57, I agree, the S10 won't work right. Luckily I've found a 55-58 bare frame, so I can make that work.

What did you do to your frame?

Re: Frame question
 

if you choose the right offset wheels and a decent width tire, not too wide, could you possibly get away with some fender edge rolling or possibly a little wheel opening massage, like widening the original flare of the wheel opening, and get away with the 79 truck frame? bearing in mind the wheel alignment issues that come up with changing the offset and tire outside diameter from a stock '79 truck wheel. I assume the frame swap was done well and it looks like the front wheels are centered in the wheel openings at the ride height it sits at? thr rear fenders coiuld be widened at the bolt on flange to get around the rear width if needed.

Re: Frame question
 

Raven, I've only seen pictures of the trucks, I have not had time to make the 3+hour drive, one way, to see any of them yet. That'll be after the trip.

I have seen some of the trucks on Tahoe frames, and I think like Russ said, go with a stock frame and add to it to make it better, Mustang II front, etc. Unless I hear differently on here.

Re: Frame question
 

I have a stock '57 frame under my '57. Note there are differences in the front end between '55.2-'57 and '58-'59 frames. The '58-'59 ones are a little longer and there are radiator mounting differences.

Re: Frame question
 

Thanks 57 that's good to know!

Re: Frame question
 

don't remember the thread name or member name but there is a tahoe swap on here. here is a link to a trailblazer ss swap that shows what big offset wheels would look like.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=782939

Re: Frame question
 

Raven, I saw that done with a 64 F100 and a 2010 F150. Very cool.

Re: Frame question
 

really good idea to download that assembly manual and do a little brain work on the frame drawings before you start, if you start, with a 58-59 frame under the 55-57 body. no problem except for a couple of small things that can easily be worked out with a drill and a cutting disc. I put a 58 frame under a 57. no biggie really.
unless that pounded big back window truck has some super solid parts to go with it I would say let that one pass. a roof hit with door damage is a lot of work to redo. a good donor if you planned on doing an extended cab where you would be doing the roof and door work anyway maybe, but otherwise what's in it that you need? below the belt line there would be fenders, hood, frame (if straight), bumpers, grille stuff, box, interior stuff like dash, seat, etc.
once you see the frame drawings you will go "I can make that". some rectangular tubing, some crossmembers, a C notch, a flat surface to assemble it all and tack it together for a welder to finish (or finish yourself if you are a good welder), an IFS cross member and suspension kit, a rear axle from a donor that possibly comes with springs and hangers or maybe just an axle and you fab up a 4 link or use some S10 or ford ranger springs and hangers. BOOM, done like dinner. cab mounts would be relatively easy to fab up from square tube (check out an aftermarket chassis like TCI for some ideas), crossmembers are also pretty easy to fab up with rectangular tubing. depends on the skill level and desire I would say. a factory chassis would be best if you can get your hands on a good one for a decent price. BUT, if the 79 chassis is under the truck, and it's done well, and the purchase price reflects the actual value, and it just needs some tweaking to make it "yours" maybe just keep it like it is currently. yup, not a huge dollar assessed value compared to a stock frame with modifications but, hey, you're driving it and having fun.

Re: Frame question
 

Thanks Raven. I enjoyed making the mounts for the 48 to the S10, so if I had to do something to a frame, I can. However, the frame I found is the 55.2-57, or so they say.

When I get back I'm going to go look at the basket case and decide if it is the truck I want. If the work that has already been done is good, that is the truck. The cab will be on the 79 frame, as a roller to help me move it around until I can actually start work on it. I'll also go get the "57" stripped frame and see it is really a 57 or if I need to do some work on it.

However, I won't start work on it until I finish the metal work on the cab of the 54 and get it in primer. So, I have to wait a little longer to drive either.