Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

At the suggestions of Raggedjim and Tempest67 I will start posting the trials and tribulations of me resurrecting a 72 Firebird. This won't be a fast moving thread due to the other priorities that always seem to happen in my life. :lol:

I bought the car back around 2003 or so. I noticed the for sale sign on my way home from work asking $1400. I called and after meeting up with the girl who owned it we made a deal and I drove it home for $1000.

It had no front valance (Well actually the original plastic valance was in the trunk in 3 pieces.) The front turn signal lights were off a 70' vintage ford pickup and mounted on some 1 1/2 angle iron. It had a P4B manifold with a 750 Holley double pumper on top of a Pontiac 350. It ran so rich a black cloud followed me all the way home. It had a early Formula hood and only the drivers side door and front fender was still the original Lucerne Blue the rest of the car was gray primer. The girl said they ran out of paint and never got back to painting the last part.

Once I replaced the intake and carb with factory pieces the car ran great. It was my daily driver for a couple years and made trips to Tiger Run in Bend OR. Made a few passes at the strip where it ran 14.8's on the non posi rear end. We're pretty sure the engine had a cam and some head work done to it.

Then it got parked, and loaned out, and parts from it got loaned, then got disassembled, and now it's 2024. The engine got installed in a 68 Lemans that I bought with a cracked block and then I sold the Lemans. The first photo is of the car from last summer. One of the reasons I'm not part if the "In crowd" in the Pontiac world.

I've been collecting parts for it all through covid and have started installing the front suspension upgrades. That started by having the front subframe sandblasted and then grinding out a lot of the factory welds and re-welding them. They were some of the worst I've ever seen from GM. It must have been training day when my subframe went down the line. (Photos 2-5) It took a sold 8 hours for me to get thing how I wanted them. Once that was done I chained the subframe to a welding bench and using a port-a-power I jacked it around until it was square and true again. (Assuming it was when it left the factory:lol:)

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

As part of the subframe resurrecting one of the subframe bushing mounts was quite rusted and to repair it I made a custom washer replace the missing metal. I started out by cutting the bad area out with a hole saw. Then I made the custom washer on my lathe so it matched the hole perfectly. Once done it welded it in place from both sides. Unfortunately I don't have a "completed photo" of this at present.

I also didn't take any pictures of the wooden jig I used to hold the pilot bit of the hole saw in place when I drilled the bushing mount out. Basically it was a piece of cabinet makers plywood clamped to the under side of the mount. Then I used a compass to find the center point of the hole. Then I drilled the center point out and that hole kept the hole saw from walking as I drilled. I also replaced the regular pilot bit in the hole saw with a piece of 1/4" round stock so it couldn't waller out the pilot hole thus allowing the hole saw to wander.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

According to the interweb the front sway bar mounting is a weak point. Apparently the threads are fairly easily pulled out when a stiff sway bar is installed. Now was the time to address this possibility. I made a pair of plates and tack welded grade 8 nuts on the one side.
I prepared the frame by grinding it smooth in the area and enlarging the factory holes for the fasteners. That allowed me to set the plates and nuts in place and then weld around them to complete the modification.

At this point I would like to acknowledge my friend 2nd gen Firebird guru John Paige for his insight, intelligence and patience with my questions. He passed from our world too early.

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...?highlight=Rip

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ght=john+paige

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

looks like a great project and you are off to a good start.

Remember, don't look at the entire project, "just 1 piece at a time"

I had a 73 Formula in High School and loved that car

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

Alright! Another second gen Firebird build!

You are obviously doing a better job than I am! I do plan to pull my subframe eventually but I know I won't be driving it for a while when I do.

Great work, Rg

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

Ingenious method for finding center hole, I've run into that problem and had no solution,TU

Those welds from the factory are unbelievable, wasn't there an inspector on site

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

hey , its coming along

looks like a fun project along w a cool back story , imo

keep the update(s) coming . . .

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

I converted the front suspension to coil overs from Pro Touring FBody. Installation involves removing part of the factory upper control arm mount as shown in photo #1.

Then it's trimming of the factory mount and the new mount until things sit as expected.

You use the factory upper control arm bolt holes to align the new mount.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

More on the coil over modifications. On one side the holes had to be elongated a bit. Apparently there is quite a lot of variation in how the upper control arm mounts got installed over all the 2nd gen F-body years.

Once the mount is fitted I used a torch to enlarge the hole through the frame that the coil over must pass through and then cleaned it up with a grinder.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

A couple photos of the subframe after painting. Of course since the paint got sprayed I realized I should have done a couple more things to it but I will have to make them bolt ons instead of welding them.

I went with the gray color as my experiences around race cars is that lighter colors in the engine bay make it easier to spot leaks and cracks.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

looks good, is that Rustoleum ?

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

No it's Macco single stage paint. I had a friend who owned a Macco down the road and he would do little things like this for me, as fill in work for his painters. Unfortunately he retired and sold the shop last year.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

Did this one about 25 plus years ago. Base Firebird I cloned into a TA. First project I mini tubbed. 455/400 turbo combo. Bought it as rust free shell roller. Long enough ago that you could still find TA parts in the salvage yard.
Good luck with your project.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

That's a beautiful car. Well done.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

that looks familiar,

when I was in High School, I did this to my 73 Formula. full of Bondo, but I loved it anyways

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

Another beautiful bird. I don't think mine will be as attractive as yours as are. I'm hoping to at least get it one color. :lol:

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

While not specifically for the Firebird I have been working on a 389 that I picked up over the summer. It was pulled out of a 66 GTO several years ago and was supposed to be under 10K miles since it was rebuilt in 05. It had high compression 66 GTO heads with a roller cam and had run 13.30's before it was pulled for an LS conversion.

I'm not going to use the original heads but a set of Edelbrock's 72 cc round port roller cam version. So I will be able to run pump gas and a reasonable timing curve.

I cc'ed the heads and pistons to be sure of the static compression ratio And since I had the engine this far apart I checked the oil pump internal wear. It was pretty good. I decided to pull #4 main cap to get an idea as to the condition of the bearings. That turned into one of those I'm kind of sorry I did/I'm relieved I did things. The bearings weren't very pretty.

It looks as the engine wasn't very clean when it was assembled as there is a bunch of scoring and some copper showing. When I pulled the rod caps those also showed signs of dirty assembly as well as they seemed to have been installed without enough clearance as there are a lot of shiny spots and some of them are black in the middle of the shiny areas most likely from getting hot.

The bearings are a .010 set. Hopefully the crankshaft can just be polished and a new set of .010 bearings installed. We'll it looks like a trip to the machine shop is on the horizon.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

Here is teaser photo of the crankshaft for the Firebird.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

I always laugh to myself when the ad says 'was running when pulled'. I just assume the motor will need work when I buy them.

It is a good thing that you found the problems now, and you will be glad to know you have a solid reliable motor when it is done.

It's all part of it, carry on and keep going................ and nice looking crank

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

Well the good times keep rolling on with the 389. In addition to the abovementioned issues Archie (my machinist Sommers Automotive Machine) has discovered.

The crankshaft will need to be ground not just polished.

The rear main cap was not machined the same amount on both legs (?) Of the cap, so it doesn't sit flat on the block. One side is about .015 shorter.

The rod bearing holes are all one to two thousands out of round. Likely from too much material being removed from the pad on the cap during balancing.

The block was decked at an angle with an .011 difference from front to rear on each side. The front pistons are at zero deck but the rear pistons are .011 down.

Two of the cylinder head bolt holes are cracked to the outside of the block. Likely from bottoming a head bolt in the hole and torquing down.

All these things are fixable but they are things that a quality machine shop would have never let out the door. The receipts for building of the engine were from 2005 and my quick interweb searching showed the shop still in business with a good percentage of bad reviews.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

I've been cleaning up the steering column I scored at the swap meet last year. It's a tilt floor shift column which means I won't have a manual shift car with a automatic column. Woo Hooo! :lol:

It seems to have come out of a high mileage car judging from the wear on the bearings and the tilt nylon bushing appears to have been replaced. One of the captive nuts that are on the interior side is missing and the sealing sheet metal plate on the bottom was fairly abused after it left the car it was originally installed in.

I was told the wear pattern on the upper arm of the fork comes from the tilt bushing being installed incorrectly leading me to believe it was replaced at some point. More on that when I get to the assembly stage. Now it time for quality interaction with the sandblasting cabinet. :lol:

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

The 73 Trans Am I had in the Navy had the same damage on tilt couplings. The 2-piece plastic sphere had disintegrated and the two yokes were metal on metal. It was a scary ride back to the base!

Took me a while to fix that in 1985, no internet, no online sales, and very little knowledge on my part!

Good luck, Rg

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

I finally made time to go and put an afternoon on the Firebird. Most of the work was getting the area cleared and then removing the rear bumper, taillights, tail panel, trunk latch and the wiring harness. All in all it looks terrible but the frame boxes and structural bits seem to be solid.

The car has been hit in the rear at some point and sort of repaired. The tail panel isn't the original as it isn't Lucerne Blue like the rest of the car was originally. I have no idea if the tail panel was installed broken or if it happened later. Not really an issue asi have an undamaged one to replace it with along with a nicer bumper.

A bunch of random photos of what I'm up against in the rear. I have a new trunk floor but I will need to fabricate the missing metal about the passenger side taillight. When I originally bought the car it was jacked up on 6 or 8 Inch shackles in the rear and the PO chiseled holes in the trunk floor to access the shackle bolts. :dohh:

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

More madness :lol:

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

lots of work there, but keep at it

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

I just keep my mind on the finished product that I have in my head. It keeps me going! You're doing great so far. Keep it up!

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

So far that's been easy as it's just the tear down part. The steep part of the learning curve will be down the road a bit, when parts actually have to go back together again. :lol:

Fortunately my expectations are low. I've been watching Finnigan and Freiburger.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

when it comes to installing metal panels, check out Jonathan at the Vinyl Village Garage.

https://www.youtube.com/@VinylVillageGarage

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

Actually I have watched a bunch of his videos. The ones on the 69 GTO as I have one of those in the que.
I also have been watching the Maverick Mod guy and his restomod 72 Firebird. I don't agree with some of his choices but I like how he explains things.


https://youtu.be/4nHb0FUL5Tw?si=VAXQNuenbaeTDA6F

Thanks for the link!

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

I carved out half a day to work on the Firebird. I got most of the tail panel cut out. Still to go is the bottom strip of spot welds and the spot welds on the little filler pieces on each end.

Those filler pieces are not available so I'm taking my time. I know that the car has been hit in the rear but now I'm thinking it's been hit more than once. On the drivers side the filler piece has been brazed to the tail panel in a couple spots and the passenger side the lower part of the filler looks to have been soldered to the quarter panel.

Unfortunately I didn't get a good before photo to show how normal it looked. But with the panel off you can definitely see how deformed the back is. Most of that will go away when the trunk floor gets replaced. Hopefully I can save the bumper mounts. (Photo #4 shows the worst two) At least I can cut them out and remove the spot welds and clean them on the bench along with the trunk latch bracket and the license plate bracket.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

You're into it now! Are you going to replace the trunk floor with aftermarket metal? If you do, take good pictures! I have a 79 TA that will need a new one (eventually).

Good luck, Rg

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

I am going to replace the floor. Taking good pictures isn't something I'm good at.:lol:
You might check out a guy called Double R Restorations. He's got 2 second gen Camaro restorations that he has documented quite well. I've spent way too much time there lately.

https://youtube.com/@doublerrestorat...dPrapu58nv6oWl

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

Another 4 hours and about 100 spot welds later I got the rear cross sill removed. Then I removed the rusted out truck floor pan. (Photo #3) After some basic cleanup I have a good idea of what is good and what is iffy.

The good news is that the frame rails are solid. (Photos #1&2) The less encouraging news is the fuel tank supports are not in very good condition. (Photo #4&5) Now I have to decide whether to fix the supports or to spend $150 bucks on reproduction ones. Either way it's probably the same about of work.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

looks like you are making progress, be sure to keep some reference marks for the new metal.

keep at it

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

Thanks! I haven't messed with the trunk lid so I will be able to match the old gaps and the vertical measurements I made to at least be in the ball park.

Last night's project was removing the extra pieces from the bumper mounts and I determined I can reuse one and rebuild the other one. From what I've read it should be the same amount of work as making repops fit. But without the excitement of buying parts that don't fit. :lol: Both of these had no spot welds instead they had weld beads in 3 spots around the edges holding them in place. My guess they were replaced at some point. Judging from the rust around them the shop likely just coated them with trunk spatter paint afterwards.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

Made some forward progress today. I removed more of the original floor and I think I've got it cut back to where I want it. After so initial trimming to make it easier to wrestle in and out of the trunk. So with fingers crossed I set the new floor in. I found that the metal stamping isn't the same length from side to side. My guess is that the sheet of metal wasn't centered in the die when it was stamped. (Photos #1 & 2)

I started trimming off everything that looked wrong. :lol: to an idea how bad things were going to be. Aftermarket parts and a previously wrecked rear end oh boy!

About an hour later I had a good handle on the fit up. The drivers side is lining up nicely. Both in the trunk and where the new cross sill meets up with it and the original sheetmetal.

Please forgive the poor photos.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

The passenger side is going to need a lot more work to make it look reasonable. The original floor needs to be pushed up at the back edge. (I'm guessing it's distorted from one of the wrecks) See the 3rd photo where I've circled the 1/2" gap and the arrow shows the direction it needs to be raised to remove the gap.

The new floor doesn't accurately follow the original floor contours and want to sit higher in some areas than others. That problem gets worse when I push the back edge the original floor up where it needs to be. Hopefully the photos show this better than I can explain it.

The last two photos are of the first fitting of the cross sill.

The next steps are going to be lots of fine grinding as I try to sneak up on the final fitment. I've never had a panel like this have one side fit this well this early on so, I'm kind of wary of trusting it to stay that way as I continue to trim things.

I'll be nailing things down with some sheet metal screws and way more clamps for the next steps so the process will get much slower from here on out.

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

its coming along and looking good

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

I don't know how many times I've been trying to put on a panel and thought "I gotta be doing something wrong!" but sometimes it's not me, it's the panel!

Nice work, Rg

Re: Learning curve. My 72 Firebird adventure.
 

Thank you gentlemen! I appreciate the encouraging words. I've got a lot of moves to go.