Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

I am very green when it comes to engine work, but I have narrowed my engine trouble down to a worn lifter and have read I need to replace the cam as well.

What other parts do I absolutely have to replace when I replace the cam?
What parts should I replace/inspect while I am doing this?

How do I determine what parts will work with my engine?

Truck is a 77 C10 with 305 and is mainly used for light hauling and just getting from A to B.

There are a couple pictures of the bad lifter.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Cams and lifters should be replaced as a set. While things are out, check the push rods for straightness. Possible the cam bearings will need replacing.

You well need fresh gaskets for all parts and covers removed. And gasket sealant.

Consider a new timing chain/gear set. Good time to inspect the balancer.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Thanks for the info and the confirmation!

How do I inspect the balancer and the cam bearings?

I will have access to a boroscope for the cam bearings if that will work but what am I looking for specifically?

How do I know/figure out which components (New Cam/Lifters/harmonic balancer/timing chain gear set/possibly rods and rockers?) will work with my specific engine? Or is it as simple as just buying a cam and lifters that say they work with a 305?

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Cam and lifters for sure. Inspect the lifter bores for uneven wear. Might as well replace the timing set "while you're in there", especially if there's any slack in the chain or if the cam gear is plastic.

This type of failure opens up the valve clearance, so inspect everything - rocker arms, pushrods, etc. with a particular focus to ensure the tops of the valves aren't damaged.

I wouldn't be overly worried about any bearings; you certainly have particulate in the engine, but it'll either wash out in a few rapid (500 mile) oil/filter changes or there's damage and you have a bigger issue. Don't borrow trouble.

As for what to use, a mild CompCams 4x4 is my usual recommendation for a mild SBC. If you can provide some details on the heads and the rest of the engine I can give you a few suggestions to think about. A 305 is Just Another Gen I SBC :)

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Thank you for the info!

Okay I will remove all the rockers and push rods and lifters tonight and post more pictures for more discerning eyes.

As far as additional info on the engine, I was told that it came out of a 70s model Nova after there were issues with the original if that is helpful at all.

I can look at the heads tonight, should there be a part number stamped into the metal?

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

I would call CompCams or your cam of choice and tell them what you have and what you are going to do with it and let them recommend a cam. I'd also consider a roller cam as they are much more forgiving without having to be concerned about breaking in a flat tappet cam. The cam company can sell you everything you need as a kit if you choose to do that. Like Willshook said I wouldn't be overly concerned with the cam bearings especially if you had plenty of oil pressure.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

This engine is old and has I don’t know how many miles on it, with the roller cams/lifters being more expensive would you still put that style into it?

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Yes personally I would as there's been so many issues with flat tappet cams and lifters lately. There's a process to breaking in a flat tappet cam and also special oil needs to be used which isn't a big deal especially since you'll need to drain it right away after the new cam break anyway. Not because of breaking in the new cam necessarily but because of the bad lifter and cam lobe putting particles in the engine prior. I wouldn't have suggested this several years ago but I would today. Nothing worse than spending the time getting everything put back together just right and having to tear it back apart.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Okay good to know thank you!

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Is this a long term engine or a 'Get By' motor while a better one is built/found/bought? If it is a Get By repair, then less is probably better. You can go down a very expensive rabbit hole on a tired motor and still have a mostly tired motor.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

There are zero issues with a flat-tappet cam if properly broken in and the right oil, which is readily available, is used.

A retrofit roller is a significant expense and effort for zero value on such a mild engine.

Worn cam bearing don't present as low oil pressure.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

100% this is a get by engine as I don’t have a reliable history other than the limited I have done to it. That being said I want to be able to use every bit of life I can out of this one within reason.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Given the engine size and usage, you're likely best off with a stock/replacement cam - there's really no choices I found looking at the CompCams that would be a good fit, other than the old "929" cam which would be workable.

https://www.compcams.com/factory-mus...all-block.html

There are certainly other choices out there.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Okay, thanks for that.
So this would be close to factory replacement of my current cam?, any recommendations on lifters?

Do I need to get any information off old cam to be sure this is a viable option?

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Pretty close to the original; this was the baseline GM cam for a long, long time. You could probably get it from a standard parts place, but Comp is a far better product than a lot of parts store-type engine parts. The springs are probably tired and a little light, but you're not going to be beating on this thing, right?

For lifters, they'll be listed on that same link. Don't spend the money on hardened lifters - it's a good idea with the high performance, near-roller ramps, but this is pretty mild.

https://www.compcams.com/high-energy...big-block.html

There's a timing set there too - I personally use Cloyes in everything, but the CompCams set is certainly a quality piece. Make sure you use new ARP bolts and their tab retainer for them.

Anything around .400 lift or so will work. Just don't end up with some high-performance, high-RPM cam because somebody told you it'll make a bunch of power :) If you're an experienced engine guy, you could consider installing the cam 4 degrees advanced to move the power curve down...but that's for expert builders only. You can certainly fill out CompCams recommendation form...but I would warn you that I ALWAYS find their recommendations too aggressive - they assume you want to make big power.

Finally, break this in right and use the right oil. If you have questions about the process happy to give mine, and there are tons of online resources. I have yet to lose a flat-tappet cam after building 100's of engines with them.

This is a pretty straightforward proces, just take your time and do it all right :)

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

No I will definitely not be beating on it lol.

I am definitely not an experienced engine guy if you couldn’t tell, this is the first one I have worked on and I am just learning as I go.

Are these the ARP bolts you are talking about?I don’t think so because I don’t see anything about a retaining clip. https://arp-bolts.mobi/?src=redirect...p?RecordID=228

Do I have to take off the heads to replace springs? Would you replace these in my shoes?

If so could you link it please

For the timing set would this be acceptable https://www.compcams.com/high-energy...5-91-sbc.html?

I appreciate all the help with this.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Take a good look through the cam swap videos online until you have a feel for what's needed. The single biggest risk here is setting the cold valve lash...so if you don't know how to do that - get someone experienced to help. No faster way to wipe a cam.

Here's the CompCams version; might as well stick to a brand:

https://www.compcams.com/lock-plate-...8-w-bolts.html

I wouldn't remove the heads, and I wouldn't bother changing the springs. The exception to this is if you find a rocker arm has been beating the heck out of a valve tip...then we're into having some cylinder head work done and it's time to consider options. I think your intent here is a repair, not an upgrade, unless we find a Problem. When doing these types of repair, if the engine was running well otherwise the less stuff we touch the less likely we are to CAUSE a Problem. The most expensive words in mechanic-land are "while we're in there..."

That timing set is fine as a stock/replacement; the more expensive ones are rollers, which is nice when making more power, and have keyway for advancing/retarding cam timing.

Don’t forget this stuff:

https://www.compcams.com/cam-lifter-...tle.html?gQT=1

https://www.compcams.com/br40-conven...ak-in-oil.html

No worries; you've got this and I'm sure you can get everything sorted out.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Awesome I am gonna order this stuff today and continue my disassembly, I will update with some more pictures of what I pull off and the tops of the valves tonight.

My intent is definitely to repair until it is time to replace.

Never set the valve lash before but I have been watching videos past couple days when I figured I would need to. It looked somewhat straightforward.
Thank you for all the links!

I appreciate the faith lol updates to come!

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

The first thing I recommend for a newbie builder is buy some literature like this.


https://www.ebay.ca/itm/176869322730...SABEgIVqvD_BwE

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

I couldn’t get that link to open for me.

Update: I removed the rockers ,rods, lifters, water pump, and radiator before I ran out of time (my light died and I couldn’t see lol). The rods were straight, the rockers all looked the same with no crazy amount of wear, and the lifter holes all seemed fine as well to me nothing too crazy. Here are some pictures of the lifter bore holes and the tops of the valves.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Linky no worky eh!
Just google ‘how to rebuild your small block Chevy’.
Bunch of choices should pop up.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Hahaha okay will do

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

If you have an accurate way of measuring the cam lobes (dial indicator) I would check the lobe with the bad lifter. If it measures to spec. Just replace the bad lifter. Assuming you really only have a single lifter with an issue. And the rest of the engine is in relatively good shape.

If you want to reuse a cam and lifter set you are required to keep the lifters in the correct order. Preferred.

If you do not keep the lifters in order. You have to replace all the lifters with new. Assuming all cam lobes are in good condition. Acceptable

A new cam gets new lifters. Obviously.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

The worst one by far is the one in the picture, but I can send in more pictures of the rest later. Yes I kept everything separate just in case. I assumed with how much was gone from that one the safest course would be to replace the lifters and cam.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Do not reuse that cam or any of the lifters. Period.

Ain't going to go back-and-forth with anyone, but that's just a hard no.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

lol I wasn’t going to as I would have to return $550 of parts I just ordered lol. Should I replace rockers and pushrods as well?
Also did the valve tips look okay from what you could tell in photos? They all looked pretty much the same to me.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

I don't see a need to replace the rocker arms if they show no damage. Pushrods should be checked for straight on a surface plate of some kind - something you know is dead flat.

Hard to tell from a pic - look over each tip and ensure there's no damage at all.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Here are my two must have books. Almost 50 years of building SBCs and I still turn to these now and again :)

Note that Vizard is displacing the front valley seal in the pic. Nobody's perfect ;-)

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

They all looked the same to me the only difference I found was the one lifter really. I will check the pushrods today on a flat surface as I just kind of eyeballed it to be honest.

I took some more pictures I will attach them, but I will look at them again tonight more closely.

Also thank you for the book recommendations I will try to pick one or both of them up if I can find them!

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Ha! I wouldn’t have noticed if you didn’t say anything that is awesome!

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Here are some more although ai don’t know if they are any more telling

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

It's just super hard to tell anything from the pics :-/ I don't see anything obvious; the tip should be a cleanly machined surface with defined edges.

This is an extreme case, but here's the kind of damage you're looking for on the valve tip.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Okay noted I am 95% sure none of mine look anything like that.

Update I did manage to get the cam out yesterday and the lobe for that lifter is completely rounded off. No surprise there really. Here are some pictures for the curious. Now just waiting on parts to come in. Also the timing chain was extremely loose had plastic teeth that 90% of them had broken. So good calls there lol.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Any recommendations on how to clean a dirty engine up the best/easiest?

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

If you're just doing the repair, don't get wound up about it. Scrape out the worst of the gunk and get rid of the rest of it with a few oil changes. I'm not a seafoam or other additive guy. Bearing and gasket surfaces need to be immaculate, and make sure you get rid of anything that's fallen in the ports or cylinders.

I use chlorinated brake cleaner for gasket surfaces; the "pro" stuff that's not green, but cleans :)

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Gotcha! I will definitely be going over it with a fine tooth comb since I have nothing to do until parts come in and I want the best possibility of success.
Maybe a dumb question, How would I check to see if something has fallen into cylinders?

Hahaha okay 3 cans of brake clean coming up.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Just resist the urge to take something apart "while you're in there".

Ah; I had forgotten that you didn't pull the heads - disregard. Just look in the intake ports and vacuum anything out that got in there from removing the intake. Tape over the ports until you're ready to re-install the intake.

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

Ahhh okay gotcha! I am slightly worried part of timing cover gasket may have made its way in as it was completely shot “crispy” and crumbled almost immediately after I took timing cover off.

I will definitely vacuum out underneath vacuum manifold though.
Thank you.

Looks like parts won’t come in until tomorrow but I will post more updates as I go!

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

I wouldn't worry all that much about it - some of it's probably in the pan but not the end of the world. And there's really no easy way to address that without removing the pan and...see "while I'm in there" comments above :)

Remember that RTV Black is your friend for all these gaskets :)

Re: Bad Lifter 305 what to replace?
 

To check the push rods for straight, a glass table or mirror is a good surface. A bent rod rolling over the glass will make a rather easy to hear clicking noise.

If you have an air compressor, pull the plugs and blow some air into the openings. Should be enough air to get any bits of gasket to come back out though open valves. IIRC - you mentioned a bore scope earlier. Can use that to check for stuff in the cylinders as well.