Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Well, I got the itch to build a new project…again.
After building my Tahoe chassis swapped 1960 Apache last winter, I thought I was going to be done for a while. But we all know how that goes. The winter got cold. I got to daydreaming. And here we are.

So…what did I drag home? Her name is Large Marge. I think it is a 1975 Chevy tilt cab. And I have to say, I am in love with the thing. It has a 427 tall deck BBC, with a 5 speed manual transmission.

I put a lot of time into 3D modeling how I want to build it and what I want to do, and I 3d printed little 24 scale models of how I want it to sit, and how long I want the frame etc. I have a pretty good vision of what the final product is going to look like.

The overall idea is to use junk yard parts wherever I can. I want to shorten the frame to about a 100” wheelbase, and stuff modern medium duty axles under it. This way, I have modern disc brakes, modern tire options, decent gearing etc. I will probably go with a dana S110 rear axle, and a D700F front axle. I want to run modern 10 bolt hub centric wheels, and run 22.5 or 24.5 Alcoa style wheels.
For suspension, I think I should be able to bolt on an international IROS rear air suspension, or a Kenworth air glide, or something similar. From my limited knowledge, it seems like this stuff should all bolt together. The heavy and medium duty world seems to have a few relatively standard dimensions, like 34” wide straight frame rails, and everything sems to bolt together. The shock mount, the air bag mount, the arm, and everything seems to bolt on. I am thinking with the relatively large bags from a big rig, I should be able to toodle down the road with fairly low pressure in the bags and have a decent ride.
The front might be a different story, but I am pretty sure I can make the same concept as I am using on the rear work for the front. Use an OEM style arm and bag mount, and bolt it all to the axle. It might be a bit more complicated than that, but I think it should all work.

I probably won’t run it super low, but with the air system in, I want it to be able to sit it down on the bump stops when I am parked and be fairly low. I measured it all out, and I have a ridiculous amount of room between the top of the tire and the inside of the wheel well. I think I have about 15” of room that I can lower the thing. I am thinking that the clearance between the tire and inside of the fender will not be the issue, it should be frame to axle clearance, which, I have somewhere around 12-15” as it sits right now. Keep in mind, this is with a 42” tire. I will probably run something much smaller like 32-36” range.

For the engine, I will probably just keep this engine in it for a little bit while I focus on the rest of the drivetrain, and eventually swap in either a modern big block or a diesel of some sort. I would love to put in something fun like a DT466 or an 8.3 Cummins, since I have all the room in the world and will not have to worry about length of the motor.

So this is the plan in which I am going to tackle the thing
1) Chop off the dump box
2) Chop off the tag axle and clean up the rest of the items on the frame which are not required such as the PTO and hydraulic assembly. At this point, it will be short enough and low enough to fit in my shop. I only have an 8’ door, and I think she sits right at about 8’ right now, so I will have to do some trickery to get it inside. Plus, I like doing the dirty work while it is outside, so I have less cleanup to do when I have it inside.
3) Put in a modern style clutch master and slave.
4) Fabricate a hydroboost brake master
At this point, I will probably try to see if I can get the engine running. I know myself well enough to know that I will 100% try to drive the damn thing around the yard once I get it running. And I feel like I should try to get the clutch and brakes working BEFORE I do that.
5) Install the new rear axle with air bags
6) Install the new front axle and suspension
7) Install round style aluminum fuel tanks
8) Install Exhaust stacks
9) Drive it for the summer.
So that’s the plan! I will try to keep this up to date as I build.

The cab of this thing is a bit rough, so if any of you out there know where a really clean cab is located, I would be super interested in it. The cab is the same from 1960-1980. So if you guys could keep an eye out for me, I would greatly appreciate it. Also, I am new to the whole medium and heavy duty world, so if anything I am planning does not make sense, please let me know.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Hauling it home was a bit of an adventure. Lets just say I may have been a tad bit over the capacity of my equipment. I was about 28,000lbs truck, trailer and everything going down the road. We weighed the trailer loladed at about 19,000lbs.

Needless to say she is a heavy beast! We did not weigh the truck and trailer empty, I really wish I would have. But I plan to weigh all the scrap that I hack off of the thing, and weigh it once I have it on the road, then I will have a good idea of what it started out at. I figure the trailer was probably about 4500lb, so I think the truck was somewhere around 14,000-16,000lbs. I had originally figured it would weigh like 10,000, but I quickly realized I was a bit shy on that once I saw how beefy everything is on it.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

This is my vision for what i want it to look like in the end. I tried a few different colour combinations and a few options with a bed, vs no bed, and a few different wheelbases. I am still a bit up in the air, but I think I am down to a plan that I like.

I picked the wheelbase in these models because it will fit a standard cab and chassis flat deck, if i ever want to put one on. Cab and chassis trucks are usually the same 34" wide straight frame rails. which is the same as the truck currently has. The decks typically come in 2 lengths. They are either 60" cab to axle, or 84" cab to axle. the 60" cab to axle is usually a 9' long bed, and the 84" is an 11".

I think the thing looks a bit too short without a bed if i do the 60", but just right if I have a bed on it. I think that the 80" just looks too long. So for now, I am going with the 60", and planning the build from there. If i can find a decent used deck on marketplace or something, I'll pick it up. but for now, I will probably just throw a sheet of steel over the frame rails, and call it good.

THe models are made with a 22.5" alcoa style wheel, a 36.6" tire, and using 24" diameter, 36" long fuel tanks like the 80ish gallon ones from a peterbuilt or something similar.

If mymodelling skills are correct, that should put the bumper, the fuel tanks and the cab about 7" off the ground at ride height, with the ability to drop another 3-4"

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

I made my 3D models so I can move the axle and other components in 6" increments forward and backward. The blue and green truck in this picture are with the 80" cab to axle dimension, plus a little space for the cab to flip.

The orange truck has the 60" C/A spacing.

The longer wheelbase would probably ride a bit nicer, but I think the short version looks a lot cooler.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Well I got to work this weekend on step 1, getting the dump box off.
Keep in mind, she is still far too large to fit into my tiny little shop, so I need to do all the cutting and hacking outside before I can bring her inside. I measured it up so I know how much I need to hack before she will fit.

I have an 8’ tall door, and she sits about 8’2. It should be able to come up with some sort of plan to get the front to sit a bit lower. I would love to pull a leaf or two from the front, but I am a bit hesitant to put the front on jack stands of any sort outside. I might just put a chain from the from to the axle and put a ratchet binder on to suck it down.

And I only have about 21’ total in length. She’s currently about 26’ long, so I have a bit of chopping to do.

I rented a gas powered chop saw from home depot, so I could cut the large panels a bit smaller so they would be more manageable. The front and rear were no big deal, but the sides were pretty heavy.
I used a pry bar to lift the panels up, and I just let them fall.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Step 2- Chop, chop, and chop some more
When I had the saw, I cut lines across the main deck so that I could use my cordless grinder and a zip disc to get it into smaller pieces.

My first step was to cut the sides off. The box had a set of two main rails running parallel above the frame, and I figured I should probably keep these for some sort of project at a later date. I may build a gantry or something out of them later. I cut the sections into somewhat manageable size to drag around.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Next step was getting the hydraulic dump assembly disconnected and getting the bed rails off.

Of course, thew one day I could actually line up some help for this, it was a nasty snow storm. Oh well…we bundled up and got at it.

I had a few issues with the hydraulic cylinder that holds pressure on the tag axle. It was in the way of being able to slide the deck off, and of course, it was rusted in place, and no amount of beating or swearing could get the thing loose.

I ended up using a tall bumper jack, and some dunnage to get the assembly jacked up high enough to where we could pull it from the side. I hooked on with a chain and pulled it off with minimal fuss.

I don't know how much this thing weighs...but I know it is a LOT. and I am glad to have this step over with.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Then I moved on to cutting the tag axle out. This was pretty straightforward, other than the fac that these frames are super stout, and have all kinds of funky bracing above the axle assembly. The bottom of the C channel is boxed in with some 2x2 square tubing, which, as far as I can tell, looks like it was factory.

It was no match for the old zip disc though. I got it all hacked apart in no time.
As a side note, I recently bought a little winter beater car, and I caught a LOT of flack from everyone at work about it. Especially because it has a goofy looking little tow hook in the front. Having said that, I decided to see if it could be useful and pull things around the yard. And wouldn’t you know it…the thing actually did pretty good! It was way more maneuverable than my truck, and it is awd, so it did not struggle at all.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

And this is where I got to. The rear tag axle is out, deck is off, and now I can actually start to see the vision a little bit. The rear leaf suspension is a bit odd, so I ended up cutting the rear hanger out. It would somehow use the tag axle as a support for the rear leaf spring. After cutting the tag axle out, I did not have a rear hanger anymore. But that really did not matter, since I do not plan on driving it anywhere like this anyhow. In this picture, I just have a piece of dunnage between the top of the leaf and the bottom of the frame so I had enough room to work. I will pull that out and just let the axle sit on the bump stops when I move it into the shop.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Still in the rip apart phase of the project.
I got the fuel tanks off, the PTO pump and dump valves removed, all the gear for the brakes on the tag axle, and did a ton of grinding to cut unnecessary brackets off.

I also figured out how I am going to get it in the shop. As I mentioned earlier, I only have an 8 foot tall door to my shop. And I think Marge sat at about 8’2” if I measure correctly.
I got the ass end to sit down nice and low by cutting the rear hangers off the leaf springs, and letting the frame sit on the bump stops. The front was a bit of a different story. I used a chain and ratchet binders to suck the suspension down. I think I gained about 6” by doing this, and I now measure it to be about 7’9 or 7’10”. So I think I am good to go.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

This was my solution to get the front end a little bit lower.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

This popped up on my FB marketplace feed, it’s all the way in Northern CA, USA but maybe worth a look? Of course depends on “roughness” of your current cab compared to this! Those dark spots that look like bullet holes are probably moss/lichen barnacles they will wash right off
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...ibextid=wwXIfr

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Thank you! that actually does look like it is in a bit better shape than the one I currently have, I reached out to the guy. I wonder if the guy would let me take just the cab? I guess we will find out!

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

The last little bit, I have been working on the brake and clutch system. My initial plan was to go to the junkyard and grab a hydroboost and master from a 2006ish tahoe/suburban. I also wanted to use a modern style hydraulic clutch. The original set up had the combination style clutch and brake master that most of these trucks had. Instead of having it on the firewall like most pick ups do, the master was mounted under the cab and pointing backwards compared to the standard orientation on a pick up.

There is a nice little plate with threads welded in where the old master was located, so my thought was to make a simple plate to bolt to this attachment point, and bolt my new style clutch and brake master to this plate.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

As soon as I got going on this, it became immediately obvious that this was going to be more of a challenge than I had intended. The space I am trying to cram this assembly into is very small, and conflicts were everywhere.

My first step was to design up a quick little plate, and print it out of plastic on my 3d printer. This allowed me to really quickly change or move things to where I need to move them.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

The first thing I found, the hydroboost hit the frame when I closed the cab. So I moved it up slightly. Next step, the accumulator hit the radiator. I flipped the hydroboost 180 degrees, and now the accumulator was hitting the clutch master. I printed a new plastic plate with slotted holes so I could move and adjust things to see where everything could go.
Once I got the location figured out, I then had the reservoir hit the cross brace, and the stud that holds the master to the booster was also hitting the brace.
I got that figured out…then the master hit the power steering pump. It had a goofy style of power steering pump which I have not been able to find much information on, and it was mounted in a goofy location way outside the frame rail, so I decided to convert it to a standard Saginaw style power steering pump with a normal location. I have ordered those parts off amazon, and that has solidly landed as a future me problem to deal with later.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

I went to my local pick n pull and was able to find a few different styles of masters and reservoirs to use which solved some of my packaging problems. I pulled one from an 06ish Van, which has a matching master, but have a much slimmer reservoir, which was enough to solve the problem of the reservoir hitting the brace. I also have a much shorter and slimmer style of master from an early early Duramax truck, so I will see if I need that.

The picture with the three masters shows the difference. The one on the left is the one I had kicking around from my tahoe/apache chassis swap. You can see it has a very bulbous tank. The one on the right is from the van. The master is the same, but the tank is slimmer. And the middle one is from the early duramax truck. I had to do a bit of swapping around to get the right combination of exactly what I wanted. Some trucks had the little nipple, which I did not need, some had smaller tanks with other attachments. But in the end, I was able to mix and match to get these arrangements. I took the shorter early master apart to see if there was a difference internally, and they have the same diameter bore and mostly the same guts internally. So in my mind, they should be more or less the same capacity.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

you can see...it is a tight fit

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

I then designed and 3D printed a few linkage adapters to get the clutch and brake hooked up and see if it would work. I will make these out of metal later, but for right now, this will work to just get it to the point where I can bleed the system and maybe burn a donut.

Everything hooked up and lined up like it should. I used 3/8 heim joints from amazon, and I had to get a bit creative with the hydroboost linkage adapter to be able to offset the linkage and provide adjustment in the end. But I made it work.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

I then started running brake lines, and surprise surprise, brake lines hit the frame, and hit the alternator belt and who knows what else I am hitting.

Long story short…this has taken me a LOT more thinking and adjusting and adapting than I thought it would. But I am slowly making progress.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

IN this picture, you can see the strange looking power steering pump located low by the frame, with the giant hose up to a high mounted reservoir. It makes it challenging to mount this stuff because I can not see the conflicts when i close the cab. THere is just literally no room to get in and look. It seems like I have miles of room when the cab is up, but when I flip it down, everythign hits everywhere, and I cant see what or where the problem is. I usually end up putting my phone down where i think the problem is, hitting record for a video, then closing the cab. It is a slow process, but it works.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Now that I have a rough idea of where the brake and clutch masters are going to live, I started bending up the lines.

I used some rebar tie wire to make a quick template of where I wanted things to run, and then brought the whole assembly onto the bench. I figured it was a bit easier than trying to bend the whole thing in place.

I also 3d printed some clips to keep the lines nice and parallel. These were a huge help in keeping everything where it was supposed to be.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Also, you can see in the picture, I had a series of bend gauges for my tubing. I stole this from a guy on YouTube called hot rod hippie. He gives a full description on how to make them and how to use them. If you are making your own hard lines, I highly recommend checking this guy out, as he is a really great resource.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

I like this project, keep the cool updates coming.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Sorry for being so quiet on this!

I have a few upodates for you folks.

FIrst of all, I spent the last few weeks dragging even MORE trucks home. I had a bit of a loss of control at an auction and ended up with two more trucks.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

My original intent when going to this auction was to grab this parts truck. It is a 1960, and I figured it would be good to have a few of these spare pieces laying around. I had no idea what engine was in the thing, and I had no idea of any of the history of the truck. Long story short, I paid 700 bucks for the thing and drug it home.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

The biggest surprise came when I got it home and finally managed to get the cab tilting linkage free…lurking under the cab is what I am reasonably sure is a 348. Lots of things say that a passenger dipstick means a 409, buty I am pretty sure it would have been a 348, given that it is a 1960. I have never ever seen one of these in real life before, so I was pretty excited. I think I might have to start looking for a 58 fleet side to build around this motor haha. The thing will crank, but I didn’t do much more past that. I was out of time because I bought another truck, which I had to go get that same day, which brings us to part two of the story.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

I have no idea why I bought this thing…
That is a lie…I know exactly why I bought it. It has a Detroit 6-71 in it, and it starts and runs SO good, I couldn’t bring myself to leave without this thing.

What am I going to do with it? I have absolutely no clue. It has air brakes on it. And a 4+4 transmission, which, I learned very quickly, is not as simple to drive as I had thought it would be. I learned very quickly that if I miss a shift, I need to pull over and start from the beginning haha.
Even though this thing went to the very bottom of the priority list, I was thinking it would be cool to stuff some modern big rig axles under it for updated brakes, put a more modern road ranger transmission in it, run alcoa floats on the front, chop it short, put it on air, and have a really cool fifth wheel hauler. But for now, she gets to live at my parents farm and just tug things around on the farm until I get more time to deal with it.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Shes a 65 B7000. Current plan...I dont have one. So she got parked at my folks place and will patiently wait her turn.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Anyhow…back to Marge.
I talked to a local wrecking yard, and got a front and rear axle out of a 2008 international CF600 box truck. The front axle is a Dana D700, and the rear is a Dana S110. I also got a rear frame section from a Freightliner air liner. This gave me the frame brackets, the bags, and the suspension arms. The wreckers told me it would be a week or so until I got the parts, and I had a bunch of other stuff to do, so I was not in a hurry for them.
Fast forward 2 months, and I called to follow up. They told me they had them ready to go for a month, and had no way to get in touch with me. Funny enough, when I went to grab them, my phone number and email was still on the original order…funny how that works.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

My idea is to bolt the rear arms on the frame and use them in a very similar arrangement as the airliner system. This would keep them in a radius arm type of set up. I will set the bracket height and my pinion angle to be about where I want it at ride height, and it will be close enough when it is aired all the way down. I don’t really think it will cause me too much for issues when I am aired down, as I won’t be doing a whole lot of driving that low.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Originally, I wanted a radius arm front. I thought that would be super simple and easy to install. The problem with that arrangement is going to be the caster angle as the suspension cycles up and down. With that said, I am designing a 4 link for the front, which will be a bolt on assembly using the existing bolt holes in the axle, and the existing front leaf spring hanger, adding a bracket or two I know this picture is a bit busy, but this is the idea I have so far. If thre are any 4 link or air suspension experts out there, please let me know if I am doing this right, because I have never done one of these before.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Not a part of the board I spend any time on but seeing the title pop up I checked it out. I really like what you are doing here. Your ability to model and print really helps the vision.

Back in the day they used this style of tilt cab truck to make a lot of race car haulers. I dont think thats your end game here but you can grab some general ideas. There are some really neat examples online if you do a search.

Keep up the good work, this is a fun build to follow!

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

I got the rear axle out without much fuss. it got pretty late on me, so the last bit ended up being done with the headlights of my other truck for light, but shes out just the same.

Now comes the fun task of grinding off the bajillion rivets that hold the old suspension brackets on.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Well that was a miserable job...

After much grinding, swearing, and beating...All of the rear frame rivets are out.

i mocked up the axle based on two existing holes in the frame, and just drilled two new ones to temporarily locate the new axle.

I wanted to add a couple pins to the axle housing to ensure the axle and arm assembly stays centered. There is a single pin on the top of the housing, and it is offset towards the front. I 3D printed a jig to help align the second pin. I made a ¾” bushing that had a ¼” pilot hole that I turned on my lathe. I made matching pins which sat in the holes I drilled.

I then made a matching jig for the lower axle to center the arm stud on the lower half of the axle.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

lower axle jig...

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

and finally...new axle bolted in place. THis may not be the final location, I just used existing holes in the frame to check for fit. but so far so good. I will locate everyhing for good once I get the tanks mounted and know how much clearance I have for things like exhaust, and setting pinion angle.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

Just out of pure curiosity, I had one of those mothers power ball wheel polishers laying around at the shop, so I thought I would try it on the paint and see what happened.

In no time, the oxidization disappeared, and the original metallic came back, along with the shine. I bet this old girl will polish right back up.

Re: Project Large Marge - Going Full Tilt
 

I wanted to do a quick mock up to see where the tanks would land, and where the fenders would sit, so I got myself some cardboard, and mocked up a few different sizes of tanks and fenders. I think I got things mostly figured out to where it should all work together.
I still don’t have a great plan for how I am going to mount the stacks, but I have a bit of time yet before I need to sort that out.

I think I am going to slide the tanks and the axle ahead to take up the space between the rear of the fender and the front of the tank. I had originally planned to have the exhaust run in that space, but I think I will run the stack over top of the tank instead of all the way to the ground. I need to leave space for the cab to tilt, and mounting the stack higher means I can move it forward a bunch and close the gap between the stack and the cab.