How low can you go ??
 

How low can you drop the front of a 65 C10 without air bags?

How low, is too low, or what is the minimum clearance for the suspension, on the front.

Any advice

Re: How low can you go ??
 

My daily-driver '77 C10 (basically same suspension) is 3.25" at the bottom of the front control arms. 3" BellTech spindles, and cut 1-ton coils. Tires taller than 245/60R15 will need the inner fenders altered. I can make it over any speed bumps, but have snagged header collector flanges on occasion.

If you're willing to cut and weld, you could pancake the front crossmember about 1.5" and cut less off the spring - this would ride low but increase ground clearance.

My '61 Apache is 2" pancake, 2" spindles, and sits 5" off the ground. Yes, it's bagged, but when the novelty wears off, I'll go back to cut coils to maintain the ride height.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Any part of the vehicle hanging below the rim is dangerous. So.... run taller rims.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

I have a 4 inch drop up front. It will scrape if I go over speed bumps too fast I and have bottomed out my lower a arms going too fast over some dips in the road. When I had a 6 in drop in the rear the axle would bottom out on the frame. I now have a 5.5 in drop in the rear.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Right now I have 2 1/2 drop spindles, 2 inch drop springs., with CPP Tubular Control Arms.

Control arms have been on a few years, drop springs and drop spindles, have about 10 miles driven, since installed, prior to 2 years at paint shop

Truck will come home from painters next week

Tires are 245/45/18

I think that 1 more inch drop would look better.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

I agree but you are being really mean by only showing us that much of your truck.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Many more pictures to follow next week !!

Re: How low can you go ??
 

I would like to drop the rear a little too, any suggestions.

Right now I have a C notch, 4 inch drop springs, rear shock relocation bracket

with drop shocks, and 1 inch lowering blocks.

Any suggestions ??

Re: How low can you go ??
 

This is how it all starts.

"just one more inch...."

Re: How low can you go ??
 

I would go for a 2 inch block for staters. That’s the easiest and cheapest way to do it and you won’t have to get different shocks.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

I used coilovers on all 4 corners, no issues with speed bumps, stock front spindles on the 86 front end that was installed

Re: How low can you go ??
 

If you're going to lower it that much you might as well put hydraulics on it and paint it with boat level metallic flake.. maybe orange and green. But that's just me.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

You say that like it is a bad thing.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Thanks for the stupid response.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

I think you could go an inch lower in the front. I have 2.5 drop spindles & cut a coil out of the stock springs with 235/75R15’s on my truck and it looks about an inch lower than yours. Probably my old springs are compressed a little more. As for the rear, I went 5 inch drop springs & 2 inch blocks to get it level. No problem with a c-notch.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

My old '66 was as low as you can reasonably go up front. On medium bumps the tires would rub the inner fenders and on big bumps the crossmember would bottom out on the ground. It had 215/75-15 tires, drop spindles, and 1.5 coils cut off the stock springs. The bump stop brackets were completely cut off and the shocks were relocated to regain full travel. The rear had a 2" deep pipe notch with relocated shocks and never bottomed out. Any lower would need a step notch and raised bed floor to keep enough travel to keep from bottoming out.

https://i.imgur.com/05NO8Ffh.jpg

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Have you considered getting a tire with a bit more sidewall Ken? A little more side rubber would fill the opening a bit and bring the fender closer to the tire. I'm just saying that you have a mighty nice truck to risk driving it at highway speed with your undercarriage barely above the pavement.

The roads where I live are not good, rolling along with cut bump stops and avoiding obstacles in the name of style may work most of the time, but it's also nice to have a smooth ride and feel at ease behind the wheel. Stuff happens out there.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

You could always put Some weight in the front to lower it down an inch and then see if you start scraping on things. I think if you go any lower you are probably going to start scraping on stuff.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

The front x-member needs to be minimum 3" off the ground w/4" being better to limit contact.

Aftermarket front 'raised' x-members shine here but add complexity/cost because they need matching arms & the swap to R&P steering.

'Z-ing' the frame is best for a old-school/budget build approach. Combine it w/drop spindles & springs & you can yield close to 7" front drop while keeping the x-member close to 4" off the road. There is still complexity but it comes @ different areas vs requiring different parts.

There's also sectioning (pancaking) a stock front x-member. It fits somewhere in between the above choices & can be an easier solution complexity wise.... but it has compromises.

Having done all three options.... I'd do a frame-Z. Properly done, it yields the same results as an aftermarket x-member while using the tried & true OE chassis set-up.

4/6 dropped trucks drive around w/o issue & work well. Going to that next level of drop is where it get's complicated. The 'Z' would utilize the same proven 4/6 parts combo but get you that much lower. It all comes down to each guys specific needs/wants.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

For me, the aftermarket front crossmembers correcting the poor factory geometry while converting to rack & pinion is what makes them so attractive. Their only downside is cost.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Based on the photos you took of the truck after it came back from paint in the other thread I think that the height looks Great. What helped reassure me that my truck is a good height is seeing someone else drive it. While I watched. For some reason that made me realize how good it looks. What also helps is bottoming out on stuff. That always keeps me from lowering more.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

You can tweak the factory stuff to correct the Geometry. Tall BJ's, Caster mod, perf alignment vs stock spec, a new/faster ratio steering box, & lower center of gravity change things completely.

R&P set-up's are nice but again significantly add to the cost/complexity vs whats already there.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

It would still be just tweaks that make it slightly better than stock so I disagree that it would change things completely.

I should add that I'm setting my truck up for autocross use so handling is paramount to me.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Very good point here. I switched from a 245-45-18 on the front to a 235-50-18
and it works great.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

You can disagree but tweaks made to the original 63-87 C10 geometry can change things completely; it just depends on one's definition of 'tweaks'.

There is nothing 'wrong' w/the stock set-up. It's not ideal vs. what's offered under current performance cars/trucks but neither are the aftermarket x-member kits being sold to achieve aggressive drop heights. R&P steering set-ups are an improvement over the original equipment steering box/set-up but only when everything is set-up & dialed in w/o compromise. Otherwise, it's just R&P steering that's easier to adapt to the raised x-member arrangement. A new perf spec steering box would also make a big difference in steering function.

If you're building something for autocross, using a Porterbuilt, GSI, Choppin Block, or Thorbeck Bro's raised x-member style set-up seems like a poor choice vs other more specific options. The aftermarket x-member kits do have updated geometry but again the OG stuff can be tweaked to rival the those offerings.

Autocross would benefit from a No Limit Engineering, Detroit Speed, SpeedTech, Scott's, or something from Roadster Shop (or maybe one of the very recently released to market QA-1 set-ups). These would be more aligned w/purpose built driving w/a nod toward autocross ambitions. They're also an even bigger investment vs. the aftermarket raised x-members.

So.... My question would be what do you consider to be 'just tweaks'?

Re: How low can you go ??
 

If I were kens65fb I would have given up on reading this thread a long time ago.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Applicable information is still information.

My input was on highlighting the issue of clearances once one is curious about 'aggressive' lowering aka asking "how low can you go". Seemed related.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

I wasn't thinking about the raised crossmember setups and was thinking performance not "how low can you go" so I agree with you that Z-ing the frame is probably the best option. Never once have I thought about laying frame in my truck so I wasn't looking at the OP's problem correctly.

I was only thinking of No Limit's front crossmember since that is what I am going with. Of course I know there is an argument to be made that if I were truly serious about autocross I'd be looking at a full chassis instead.

But I have a full prep SCCA STR 2019 MX-5 and even with a full chassis, I'm not going faster at autocross in the 65.

Agreed. Always learning and discussing is what improves someone's knowledge.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

The setup I had on Goldilocks' build (stock crossmember raised 1.5", 1" narrowed PB tubular arms, .500" taller upper ball joints, and CPP Modular drop spindles) had more camber gain per inch of travel than No Limit's WideRide front end. Depending on how much body roll you have that could be a good thing or a bad thing. I like softer/more compliant suspension that absorbs mid corner bumps and curbing so having more camber gain to add more camber as the body rolls is a good thing- you can run less static camber. Stock camber gain is .86* per inch inch of travel, No Limit is 1.56*, my setup was 1.61*. The PB arms corrected the lack of caster and the No Limit rack & pinion corrected bump steer. The factory crossmember already has about 10* of antidive built in so that's good as-is. Now, if you like stiff suspension and no body roll because everyone thinks that's what makes something handle good... you don't really need geometry anyway, just throw some static camber at it.

The factory geometry with a few tweaks, plus an appropriate spring rate and good shock valving can be really good, and plenty good enough for autocross if you're not trying to be top level competitive.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

I'm betting unless one has done the 'driver mod' (actually attended a driving school), the modded C10 set-up is more than enough for said driver.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Geometry does matter and a correctly damped suspension with stiff springs and sticky tires is faster so therefore does make something "handle good" Period. I am solely basing this on the stopwatch.

Obviously, this is assumed. So the discussion is all things being equal.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

I'm not assuming anything when I don't know who's using this info so the 'driver mod' mention is valid & useful.


But this is all off the original topic of how much lower @kens65fb can possibly go. My original concern was making sure he's aware of the pitfalls that extra inch or so of drop can yield.

Driving a truck that bottoms out a lot wears on you (& the truck/parts). I loved the ride height on my '74 but the constant bottoming out made driving any area where the roads weren't smooth a PITA thus much less enjoyable. Getting them lower than a 4/6 introduces those concerns. A 5/7 is do-able w/the right combo but will likely bottom out here & there. Again.... I was merely trying to promote awareness.

For reference, my CC dually is just as low as my '74 was but has adequate clearance. The 1.5" raised front x-member keeps it far enough away from the ground it's never bottomed out once it hit the roads 'post-mods'. Same for the rear of it.... It's never made contact w/the bumpstops or floor. The only thing that has made contact is the frame rails @ the center of the truck on funky angled entry/exit transitions of some parking lots. I have air so I could technically raise it but it's a coin flip on if it will/won't make contact so it isn't a common issue.

Everything I have is lowered & I won't build another aggressively lowered truck w/o necessary clearance. It's night & day difference IMO when it comes to a worry free driving experience.

Re: How low can you go ??
 

I measured today.

The distance from the ground to the bottom of my front fender is 27 1/2 inches, it seems like 26 inches would look perfect

I'm curious, what is considered a perfect height.

Anybody else measured the distance from the ground to the bottom of the

fender ??

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Have you looked through the photos of static drops thread? I would go through there and find one you like and then ask them their specs and for how they did it.

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...ht=static+drop

Re: How low can you go ??
 

My measurement is 27.0, but I’m running a taller tire that fills the gap more. (235/75R15)

Re: How low can you go ??
 

im very late to this but my 65 has 3 inch belltech spindels 3 inch coils with a half coil cut in the front 5inch coils and inch and a half blocks

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Wow so is that like a 7 inch drop in the front and 7.5 in the rear. Are there no speed bumps where you live?

Re: How low can you go ??
 

2.5 inch drop spindles and 2 inch springs in front and I was told 4 inch springs in the rear. I bought all the parts used and the guy was going by memory. 255-17r15 tires on factory truck rally wheels I've never measured to see how high the frame is off the ground.

https://i.ibb.co/1Xkv3ST/20230824-201335-2.jpg

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Just an opinion, but taller tires look more "correct" with our body styles....(flame suit on)

Re: How low can you go ??
 

Another example for reference. The front never rubs or bottoms out, plenty of travel and ground/tire clearance. No issues at at. The rear needs a c notch at this height; with trimmed bump stops the axle is only about 1.75" off the frame rail so bump travel is limited. I don't want to chop up the truck so I've tolerated the rear occasionally bottoming out on the bump stop. I used firmer rear shocks to slow down bump travel when empty, but when loaded with the camper shell or trailer it actually rides really well except over really big bumps. I'm looking into adjustable shocks to dial back the damping when it's empty.

Front-

CPP drop spindle/disc brake kit.
1 coil cut off stock springs.
Bump stop brackets completely cut off.
Stock drum brake wheels with 1.5" bolt on spacer.
215/75r15 tires.

Rear-

D2600 bags bolted directly to trailing arms, short upper cup to clear the air fittings.
1.5" drop blocks.
FrizzleFry's method of shock relocation.
Trimmed bump stops.
15x8 wheels.
235/75r15 tires.


https://i.imgur.com/rEODtnFh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nDezGQ8h.jpg