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Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Thought I would share some stuff on Rubberbandit's (Chad) 4L80E build, Most people never get to see what actually goes into building their transmission. This is going behind a stock LS3 but will handle A LOT more when I'm done!
It's a 2003 4L80E out of a Express Van, REALLY nice core! It could have been put in just like it is & easily handle a LS3.....That's how good of shape it was in! Got the Case cleaned up, Ran it through the Hot Water Vat twice, A little Iron staining on the lower half of the Case, I can paint this if you want Chad.....But I would leave it be, Your call?? http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psadpzkuqo.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psq3pkkexy.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psfmvmpjll.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
This should be interesting! I'll be watching, but don't think I'll ever get up the nerve to try it myself! :lol:
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Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
All Clutch packs looked PERFECT & Clearances were within spec.
Forward Clutch.... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psd0sxknco.jpg The Frictions are worn down to the numbers:lol: http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps2dfzcbbx.jpg Directs. http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psahfxebnz.jpg Direct Drum where the Intermediate Band rides, This trans has never been in Manual 2nd! http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psiq9ca3b4.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
The first modification is getting rid of the OE Steel Pistons in the Forward & Direct Drums & replace them with Aluminum Pistons out of a TH400.
Stock 4L80E pistons have a VERY poor "Work Surface Area" not even .030" wide all the way around (Red Arrow). TH400 Aluminum Pistons have a HUGE reinforced Work Surface (between the red lines) http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps396s0cxu.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
When using stock steel 4L80E pistons, There is no way too truly blueprint clutch clearances , You have to machine stuff to get EXACT clearance & TH400 Pistons make it all that much easier, As a bonus.....The Work Surface gets cleaned & leveled.
Took .040" off the Direct piston too fit 6 .080" Frictions & 6 .077" Steels at .057" clearance. Took .120" off the Forward Piston too fit 5 .080" frictions & 5 .077" Steels at .045" clearance. Direct piston... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psnbnumfan.jpg Forward piston... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps8pfmase8.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Trans-Go High Rate Direct Return Springs installed along with a TH400 Spring Retainer.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psbwy5gade.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Forward Drum with TH400 Piston & Spring Retainer.
I Omit the Wave plate in both drums, If it breaks (And they do!) the "Lugs" will slip under the ledge it the drum & prevent the piston from applying or only apply one side leading too clutch burn up!! This will make forward engagement a little more firm but nothing drastic if pressures are right. The arrow is highlighting the Lug & Ledge, A Flat .077" Steel CANNOT get under the ledge! http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psx24xiipj.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psnjvilolj.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Forward & Direct drums stacked with new buffed Steels & new Borg Warner Frictions...
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psov2yrgdg.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psnaqotf7r.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psalsjd5hv.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psaygyek5q.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Thanks for sharing info and pics.
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Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Overdrive Clutch Housing, Nothing special here, Just buffed steels & new Frictions, Note the diameter of the Clutch......It's massive!
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psfdfrk3o5.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psowsqfilr.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Center Support mods.....
Machined off the Sealing Ring Lands between the 3rd & Reverse Circuits (Part of the Dual Fed Direct Clutch mod) Most builders just omit the Sealing Ring which is OK, But this helps with 3rd/Direct Clutch release times during Forced & Commanded Detent/Downshift. Replaced the Plastic "Step Cut" sealing rings with solid Teflon like found on earlier 4L80E's. They seal better, But it takes special tools to install them correctly. Before & After.... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psxkazyy6d.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...pso2xxixx9.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Cline ..you are da man when it comes to da trans..keep it up..this is interesting..
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Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
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Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
So much for buying and chucking parts at this let's turn them on our lathe. Very impressive nice job.
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Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Build up of the Reaction & Output carriers, Everything was in perfect shape.
Replaced all the bushings with Clevite pieces & a new Low-Reverse Roller Clutch, The only mod too this area is a TH400 Silencer Ring which GM did away with in 1995 for cost cutting reasons, This is not only for noise reduction......It also acts as a Rear Support Thrust Washer for the Reaction Carrier. First was the Bushing in the Output Shaft, This is one of those out of sight bushings that normally NEVER gets replaced though it see's a ton of load, Has a Lube Groove the original Federal Mogul Bushing didn't have. http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psp8jljpct.jpg Reaction Carrier Bushing.... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...pspnetg2fs.jpg Sun Gear Shaft Bushings(2).... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psh5ha4nbs.jpg TH400 Silencer Ring.... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psnwwuua85.jpg New Center Support Bushing.... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psaan1mv3k.jpg Geartrain assembly ready too install.... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...pss8uzmmrs.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
1997 & up 4L80E's have a smaller/weaker Overdrive Roller Clutch, Why GM did this is a mystery. I buy ALL the early 4L80E cores I can....Even European versions & harvest the OD Carrier, Roller Clutch, & Overrun Housing out of them.
This particular piece is from a 1996 4L80E from behind a 6.0L V12 Jaguar that had under 40,000 miles. All I did was replace the Bushing & the Overrun Frictions. This pic highlights the difference between the OD Roller Clutch that was in this unit (Left) & the larger/more robust Roller Clutch found in the Jaguar OD assembly on the right. http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psb10cnrau.jpg Overrun Clutch Housing with the Overrun Frictions & OD Roller Clutch installed... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psqgeylpyr.jpg OD Carrier, Also houses the Roller Clutch outer Race & Overrun Clutch Hub. http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psfegw9ide.jpg OD assembly & Input Shaft (With new Sealing Rings) ready for install. http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psax82wmp2.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Pump....Again in excellent shape!, Replaced the Pump Gears, Pump Bushing, Both Stator Bushings & Overrun Clutch Sealing Rings.
Installed a .770" Sonnax "O-ringed" Boost Valve, Stock is .740" Sonnax 10% over Pressure Regulator Spring. Sonnax "Lube to Line" Pressure Regulator Valve, Maintains Cooler Flow/Lubrication in high demand situations. PR Bore Plug pressure tested good. Pump Bushing installed... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...pszhpbgh78.jpg Pump Gears... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps5pmqtxfb.jpg Stator Bushings... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psecmv40gc.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps7jpy3eqo.jpg Boost Valve & PR components.... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psszhigmc1.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...pskzoldjch.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...pss8lfveji.jpg http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psiubvpier.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Very interesting! Enjoying following along.
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Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
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I hope to buy a used CNC Mill pretty soon as indicating the pistons before turning them is very time consuming. Quote:
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Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Great info, thanks CB!
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Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Thanks for documenting the rebuild. It's cool seeing the inner workings and what all goes in to rebuilding and improving one with your level of attention to detail.
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Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
This type of write up gives incredible insight to a proper rebuild and why the parts and the changes you make, and why, are done. It really takes the mistery and confusion out of a large cost of our hobby. I appreciate you doing this Cline and all the other write ups and help that you do for this forum!
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Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
FINAL ASSEMBLY.
First thing on the list is to knock the Case Bushing in. I am Rollerizing the Output on this Unit, So this is not found in a service manual. Use a TH350 Pump Bearing to replace the Thrust Washer & Selectable 3-Tang Washer. The Case Bushing has to be left above flush to locate the Bearing, A stock Bushing is way too thin to leave above flush. The best Bushing too use here is a Early 4L80E Pump Bushing as it is the widest bushing that fits this location. I like to use Seamless/1 Piece. Top is the wide Pump Bushing, Bottom is a stock Case Bushing. The Bearing is .140" thick, So I leave .100" sticking up too locate the Bearing. The Stock Thrust & Selectable is .147" thick, You generally start with the same thickness as came out, But there are no .007" Shims for the Bearing, But I do have a .010" shim. Making the total Bearing & shim thickness .150". This unit was within spec already at .009" (.005"-.013") is the spec. So, .003" would put me around .006" Rear Unit Endplay. Ended up with .005"..... Knocked the Bushing in using my Bushing Installer with a .100" relief machined into it (I used Loctite Sleeve Retainer Compound on the Bushing). Installed the rear seal & Snap Ring. Installed the Lo-Reverse Band & Fretting Snap Ring. Place .010" Shim & Bearing over the Bushing. Lower the pre-assembled rear geartrain in place. Installed the Center Support & Snap Ring. Measured rear unit Endplay. Case Bushing... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psaph3bk1n.jpg Shim & Bearing that replace the Thrust & Selectable. http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psphrocuyj.jpg Bushing, Shim & Bearing installed... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psdxm0fnam.jpg Lube Seal & Snap Ring. Yes, The residual clutch material got removed!! http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psomr7laz2.jpg Geartrain, Center Support, & Snap Ring installed.... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...pshpa0gwqg.jpg Checking final Rear Endplay... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps8l6ludsx.jpg |
Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Man nice work if you where closer id get you to build mine if it ever goes out
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Re: Rubberbandit's 4L80E Build Thread.
Intermediate/2nd Clutch.
Used 1 .100" TH400 Steel, & 3 .076" 4L80E Steels to get the correct clearance of .042". GM runs this clutch way loose for some reason, Too much clearance allows the Piston to pick-up too much speed & SLAM the Clutch Pack, Which doesn't do the Case Lugs, Intermediate Snap ring, Or the Intermediate Sprag any favors! A CK Performance Spiro Lock Intermediate Snap Ring was utilized in this build, These have been used in 1500hp TH400's without failure! The stock Snap Ring can blow out &/or blow the Case Lugs out. I cannot believe people take chances over a $13 part!!! http://www.ckperformance.com/View/TH...UTCH-SNAP-RING .100" TH400 Steel first, Gives more apply support vs a .076" Steel... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps3bwuxal1.jpg Intermediate Friction, 4 total on a 4L80E vs 3 on a TH400... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psafz1nvql.jpg Stock Intermediate Snap Ring vs a CK Spiro Lock....Way more support!... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...psqhyighgp.jpg Snap Ring & Backing Plate installed... http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps6fw58loc.jpg |
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