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Old 12-24-2017, 02:15 AM   #10
dsraven
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: calgary alberta
Posts: 8,499
Re: Camaro vs. Mustang II IFS overall cost after its all done

let me start by saying that I am not in any way trying to discourage you from building a task force truck. I am just trying to make you aware of a few things so you don't get dug in and find out this isn't what you thought it was when you started.

I always recommend doing a complete study of the truck and write down everything that you will need to fix in the future or at the time of disassembly. don't lie to yourself or overlook things for the sake of getting started because that is how projects get put aside or sold after a bunch of time and money has been spent already. there have been lots of domestic disputes caused by projects that get out of hand in the finance department or even the "time spent in the garage" department. some guys simply get in over their head, their abilities, finances or time, and soon the project loses it's appeal. ensure you have a partner (if equipped) who is onboard with the plan and financial outlay before you start. again, be honest. if you do get started I recommend to take lots of pics of the disassembly and also keep fasteners and like parts together. that way you can see how stuff is supposed to fit when you put it all back together, sometimes years later. screw the fasteners back into the holes they came out of and put the parts in a labeled box.

if this is your first task force truck and you haven't done a thorough look see yet, then start by looking in the usual spots. the hinge pillars, floor and vent areas. usually the trucks have a plugged inner cowl vent that leads to rain or snow melt water being allowed to build up in the cowl vents to the point where it runs out the vent onto the floor of the cab. this rusts the floor, hinge pillars, inner cowl vents, front cab mounts, fender rear lower mounts and step areas pretty bad. also the area above the windshield (eyebrow) is prone to becoming a mouse nesting area and consequently rusting out so a good look and prod in that area is in order as well as the area just above the rain gutter all the way around the cab roof. the rear cab corners, inner and outer. the rear cab mounts and the floor area near there, the front fender headlight areas, the rear lower area of the front fenders, the brace that runs vertically up the back side of the front fenders, the lower door skin areas, inner and outer, as well as the lower hinge mount support inside the doors are prone to cracking. door hinges, door latches, door glass, tracking, regulators and channel seals. vent window seals and hardware. these are a few of the cab areas to check.

after that, and before you spend money on upgrades, you need to decide what you want from the truck in the end. how you will use the truck, what ground clearance you want, what stance (ride height and rake angle) you want and what capabilities you will want from the truck. if you are looking for a truck to haul stuff and not bottom out or drag the bumpers, to be a truck first, then that will narrow down the entries to the pro's list and add to the entries on the cons list for some of the stuff available. for a high horsepower unit you will need to look at rear axle and possibly rear suspension upgrades as well as possibly some frame modifications. a low truck will also possibly require a "C" notch of the frame above the rear axle as well as possibly some suspension work to lower the rear of the unit.

if you want a truck that handles like a newer truck and has some load handling capabilities but also has some upgradable components for braking and handling in the future then look into a truck front end, like, say a dodge Dakota front clip swap or possibly a newer c10 member install or look into an ifs unit that is capable of handling the load and braking required of a truck. ask the questions on here for guys that have done that particular swap. you need to check the track width of the donor as well as the frame width and where the steering box or rack is located so it can connect to the column. you will need a welder friend who is schooled in the do's and don'ts of frame fabrication and modification for this and probably need more than a single visit. you will need a few shop tools like engine lift, chain and attachments. floor jack, jack stands and misc blocking. large clamps, "c" clamp vice grips, magnets, long and short levels (digital are better for accuracy), string line (or laser for accuracy), grinders with grinding and cut off discs, related safety equipment like face shields, particulate respirators, coveralls, gloves etc. large and small squares, a quality tape measure and other measuring tools. you will need to first ensure the truck frame you are working with is straight and square so that means a clean bare frame is best. you may need to fab a cab lifter attachment for the engine lift to ease that job. check on here for recommendations. you will then need a place to put the cab and sheet metal parts that is out of the way. you will also need a new steering column or will need to modify the old steering column and add components to connect the dots between the old column and the steering box/rack. you will need to fabricate engine mounts, figure out exhaust routing, rad support mounts, inner fender fitment, frame extensions and mods for front bumper fitment, park brake mechanism attachments, clutch and brake pedal linkages, brake line routing etc. you may also want to install a dual system brake master cylinder at the same time because most guys want disc brakes up front so a new master cylinder is required. a power brake upgrade is also common. some are firewall mounted and some are stock frame mounted style. you may also want to refresh the front end components like mentioned earlier. this can add up quickly. you may want to invest in an assembly manual for the truck which will give frame dimensions etc so that you can get the new frame clip set up for the proper rad support height and dimension from the firewall face as well as the proper dimensions for the front bumper extensions. when you start to disassemble things you will likely find a few rotten areas that will also need attention. broken bolts etc, so you will likely need a few tools to remove those items. center punches, drills, bits, easy outs, torch, taps and/or die set etc.

if you want a truck that drives and handles like a car then put a car front end or an aftermarket ifs in. that will usually diminish the capabilities for the load hauling and ground clearance etc. there are a number of donor vehicles like Camaro/firebird/nova, crown vic, volare etc and there are lots of them driving around out there. you will need to know things like the ride height associated with the frame clip welded even with or below the stock frame. they will all have the same related issues as the above mentioned truck frame clip. an important thing to do is to get measurements and angles from the donor clip with the entire weight of the original vehicle as it would be driving around. write these down and save them for use when you are mocking up the clip to your frame. you can even use threaded rod in place of the shocks while the clip is still in the donor car, so the suspension stays at the intended ride height for the donor vehicle. then, when it is being mocked up into your truck, you can keep the angles the same as when the clip was loaded with the weight of the original car.

if you want to use the existing frame, front to rear, and add an independent front suspension then some of the same principles still apply. truck capabilities or car capabilities. some components are tougher than others. look at and compare the metal thickness of the cross members and control arms. the gusseting of corners, the quality of welds, the size and quality of the fasteners and steering/suspension components. the size and quality of the brake components. the cost of upgrades you want or may need in the future. check out a write up from Heidts, or contact them for a web link, that explains the requirements and geometry of independent front suspension. you should know what each angle does and how each component interacts to affect the steering. a simple thing like the wrong pivot point for an inner tie rod end can cause a headache from bump steer for example. look at how the control arm pivots are mounted and gusstted. some have the old style mustang II "T" bolts that hold the upper control arm pivots onto the frame on a horizontal surface. these rely on friction to stop the upper control arm from moving across the frame surface if the suspension goes over a pot hole or the like. the newer style has the upper control arm pivot shaft mounted to an vertical plate and uses shims to adjust the control arm for alignment. this system is stronger, in my opinion. with that said there are a lot of the older style driving around with no problems. look at an assembled unit if possible and check how things like the ball joint boots fit and seal. some simply sit on the ball joint housing and as the suspension moves the boot becomes unsealed and allows road dirt and water to enter. some have boots that fit tightly and seal well.
some of the ifs units are bolt on cross members that have the upper and lower control arm pivots already welded in place. you don't have to guess when doing mock up and assembly or hope you have it right when welding. that is all figured out before you get it so you get the frame work done, leveled and at the rake angle you want, then bolt in the cross member at level side to side and fore to aft and then assemble the rest of the parts. check Scotts hotrod parts for a visual on what I mean. there are others that make similar bolt in units. again, ask the direct questions on here for the manufacturer you like the most. guys will usually be brutally honest. sometimes the cost of a weld in seems quite a bit cheaper but if you factor in a welder paid by the hour while setting up components to a tenth of a degree that can add up quickly and the spread of costs between the two gets less. that is as long as you have the skills and tools to do the assembly of a bolt in unit by youself.
ok, end of rant. order the birthday cake, you probably have been here long enough to have another birthday coming right up. haha.
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