SS Braided Brake lines?

[thirdstreettito]

I've been wanting to get some new stainless steel braided brake lines to replace my rubber ones. I have hydroboost, so I need some lines that can handle the 2100-2500psi it puts out. Anyone know of any? I thought of using AN lines and fittings, but they are only rated at 1500psi.

[N2TRUX]

For most applications, I recommend Summit. For your needs, try an industrial supply.

[thirdstreettito]

Thanks! I just found what I needed! You're a life saver! Get it? Brakes? Life saver, lol.

[D13]

So, were these the brake caliper hoses or the hydroboost hoses? ind if the latter share whatcha found so the rest of us can copy you!

[thirdstreettito]

These were the caliper hoses. The P.O. didnt say if he replaced them or not, so I am, and for $15 each, it is an easy upgrade. When he put in the new engine/trans, he replaced everything under the hood except the master and booster; all hoses, belts, all but the 6.2 wiring harness. I will probably look into SS braided hoses for under the hood when I do the twin turbo setup. OOPS! I wasnt supposed to leak that info!

EDIT: Aeroquip can make the hydroboost hoses. I am going to get a quote.

[Gordonr1973]

Originally Posted by thirdstreettito

These were the caliper hoses. The P.O. didnt say if he replaced them or not, so I am, and for $15 each, it is an easy upgrade. When he put in the new engine/trans, he replaced everything under the hood except the master and booster; all hoses, belts, all but the 6.2 wiring harness. I will probably look into SS braided hoses for under the hood when I do the twin turbo setup. OOPS! I wasnt supposed to leak that info!

EDIT: Aeroquip can make the hydroboost hoses. I am going to get a quote.

How about some pics of the installed lines please??

[clinebarger]

Make sure they are DOT approved, A cheap set will be alot more dangerous than just running stock hoses....I have put hundreds of thousands of miles on Dodge diesel pickups that have Hydroboost & never blew a factory brake hose.

[KQQL IT]

i put these on my '73 has the best pedal in my fleet.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-672300/

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by KQQL IT

i put these on my '73 has the best pedal in my fleet.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-672300/

They "meet or exceed D.O.T. standards". It doesn't say they are "D.O.T. approved". HUGE difference. I would inspect closely to make sure there is rubber covering the Teflon under the braid and not just bare PTFE.

CYA

The lines should have a D.O.T. approval number to be legally used on the street. The cops probably will never notice. BUT using non-approved lines opens you up to large liability. The insurance weasels are paid to use any angle to slide out of liability for an accident. The stainless braid covered lines will catch their attention because they look different. You are left holding an expensive bag if you can't prove they are D.O.T. approved... Even if the accident wasn't a result of brake failure proving it could be more expensive than paying the other party out-of-pocket and the weasels know that.

They will improve the pedal feel over stock hose.

The following text is from the Acura NSX Wiki

A few people have asked me to explain the difference between "DOT-approved" and non-approved stainless-steel brake lines. This explanation is pretty long, but I think it'll explain everything so I won't ever have to post another message on the subject... I'll just refer anyone who asks to the Porschelist searchable archives.

First, a quick explanation of what stainless-steel brake lines ARE:

The brake lines we're talking about are the flexible ones that connect between the hard lines (i.e., the inflexible tubing) in the car and the brake calipers on the wheels.

They've traditionally been made from rubber tubing, with steel or aluminum connectors crimped onto their ends. Nearly all passenger cars are shipped with rubber brake lines, and they hardly ever fail.

"Stainless-steel" lines are made of Teflon tubing, not rubber. Teflon has a number of advantages over rubber; the chief ones are that it doesn't expand under pressure and it doesn't deteriorate with age. It also resists high temperatures and is chemically inert, so it's compatible with all brake fluids.

However, Teflon is pretty fragile, so it has to be protected from physical damage (chafing, flying rocks, etc.). Although some manufacturers armor their Teflon hoses with Kevlar, most protect the Teflon with an external sheath of braided stainless-steel wire... So that's why armored Teflon hose is usually called "stainless-steel hose". There's no such thing as a stainless-steel brake line that's "not lined with any material"; ALL stainless-steel brake lines are really Teflon lines with a protective stainless-steel-braid cover.

The ends of the hoses have to be securely attached to the brake calipers and the hard lines, so each hose is terminated by threaded hose-ends.

Those hose-end fittings can be attached to the hoses a couple of ways.

The cheap way is to crimp or swage them onto the hoses, like the fittings on rubber hoses. The more-expensive way is to use a two-piece replaceable hose end that captures a portion of the hose between an inner nipple and a concentric outer socket. These hose-ends (often referred to generically as "Aeroquip fittings" because they were invented by the Aeroquip Corporation) are used EVERYWHERE on aircraft and race cars.

Ok... So what's required for a stainless-steel brake line to be DOT-approved?

First, I should point out that there may be lines available that meet all the DOT specs, but are non-approved only because they haven't been submitted to the DOT for approval.

Manufacturers can't legally say that their lines are approved -- even if they KNOW that the lines meet all the DOT specifications -- without actually submittimg them to the DOT.

For that reason, stainless-steel brake lines can fall into three categories:

"DOT approved" - These lines have been submitted to and approved by the US Department of Transportation.

"non-approved" - These lines don't have a DOT approval, either because they don't meet the specs or simply because they haven't been submitted for testing.

"non-conforming" - These lines are non-approved (and non-approvable) because they fail to meet the DOT specs.

Ok...

The safety standard that brake hoses must meet is called Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 106; if you have a copy of the Code of Federal Regulations handy, it's in Title 49, Volume 5, Subpart B, Section 571.106.

The section that applies to hydraulic hoses is about six pages long, and it covers everything from labeling requirements to pressure and temperature testing.

One important thing to note -- this'll come up later when I explain why the "best" hose assemblies can't be DOT approved -- is that each of the requirements in the Standard carries the same weight; if a hose fails to meet ANY requirement, it won't be approved.

Hypothetically, therefore, a hose which met all the performance specs but was labeled in lowercase letters (the Standard requires block capitals) would fail to be approved.

Also, some of the features required by the Standard provide a certain amount of "idiot-proofing", but at the expense of absolute maximum strength or safety... It's the same sort of mandated mediocrity that forced Ferrari to replace the stock 5-point safety harnesses in US-spec F40s with those ridiculous motorized-mouse single shoulder belts.

Anyway...

Most of the "performance" specs in the Standard (i.e., burst strength, compatibility with brake fluids, tensile strength, expansion under pressure, etc.) are easily met by all halfway-decent hydraulic brake hoses, but there are a couple of tests and requirements that are particularly difficult for stainless-steel hoses to meet.

Those requirements are:

1. The manner in which the fittings must be attached to the hose.

FMVSS 106 specifies that "Each hydraulic brake hose assembly shall have PERMANENTLY ATTACHED brake hose end fittings which are attached by deformation of the fitting about the hose BY CRIMPING OR SWAGING." [Emphasis added]

The idea is that, since crimped-on fittings can't be loosened, a stupid end-user won't be able to screw with and weaken them.

This is a good thing from a product-liability point of view, I guess... But it means that any hose assembly which uses the very best fittings available -- like the nipple-and-cutter Aeroquip Super Gem or Earl's Speed Seal -- is non-conforming and CAN'T be DOT-approved.

2. The "whip-resistance" test.

This test involves mounting the hose on a flexing machine, pressurizing it to 235 psi, then running it at 800 RPM for 35 hours.

When steel-armored hoses were run through that test, it was found that the hoses tended to bend right at the junction between the hose and the hose-ends. After a while, the stainless-steel braid would start to tear, and the broken wires would cut into the inner Teflon liner, causing it to fail.

One brake-hose manufacturer fought to modify the whip test, claiming that their stainless-steel hose could easily comply with the test if only a supplemental support were used during testing to move the flexing-point away from the hose-ends.

The NHTSA ruled on the issue in August, 1996, deciding to allow manufacturers to use the supplemental support... But only on the condition that the same support was used when the hoses were installed on a real car.

FMVSS 106 was modified to include the use of the support, and the new rules went into effect in October, 1996.

"DOT-approved" stainless-steel brake hoses went on sale immediately thereafter.

So... Now that you know the whole story, you can make an informed decision as to whether you want to put these things on your street-driven car.

If you decide to install them, you need to be aware of a few things:

When you install them, you must make SURE that they can't kink, twist, or stretch under any combination of wheel droop, bump, or (for the front wheels) steer.

The stainless-steel outer braid will cut through anything against which it rubs, so you have to make sure that the lines don't rub back and forth over anything important.

Stainless steel lines have been known to fail when dirt gets between the outer braid and the Teflon lining... As the braid moves back and forth, the dirt abrades the Teflon and can make it rupture. If you look at stainless-steel lines on motorcycles, you'll see that many of them are encased in plastic tubing, apparently in an effort to eliminate this problem. The tubing also helps considerably with the abrasion issue mentioned above.

[KQQL IT]

on there website... btw they are jacketed brake lines

STREET LEGAL BRAKE HOSE KITS
Direct bolt-on Brake Hose bring the ultimate in braking performance. They improve your braking performance for competition or every-day driving. Replacing the OE rubber hose with Russell brake hose reduces brake hose expansion for more consistent braking. Featuring stainless steel braided hose with zinc-plated fittings; these brake hose are factory assembled for convenient installation. They meet the guidelines of the U.S. Dept. of Transportation FMVSS-571.106 requirements. All Russell brake hose kits are for stock applications unless noted otherwise.