Epoxy Primer as a sealer

[vht]

Has anyone had experience using epoxy as a sealer before they do the final paint? I've heard of some doing it. When I get everything final block sanded I thought about doing this. I might not get around to paint until spring. Been on kustomshop.com looking at colors and was reading some stuff on their primers. Figured that would help seal and protect until I get paint on them.

[Highsider]

I am at the point I am very intersted, too.
This board has several threads on every aspect of the topic.
Tinting the primer was mentioned and I think that is what I want.
I just typed "Epoxy Primer" in the search.
Enjoy reading!

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Moved this to the P&B section of the forum for ya.

[turp mcspray]

That's all I use for sealer. I would wait to do your final sand, untill you are ready to paint. That way if something happened to bump into a panel, leaving a scratch or ding, you will find it doing the final sand, instead of not seeing it untill the first coat of paint goes on.

[vht]

Thanks for the info, should of thought about posting it there, sorry about that.

[shortbed70]

Asked the same thing awhile back... Yup epoxy works great as a sealer before and after mud...
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[Custom 68]

The question was answered but make sure you have it all one color. What I found some of the paints don't cover very well when it comes to some of the "bullet" sanding spots.
I am sure that is what you are planning but if during your final sand you find a high spot and sand thru a layer or 2 make sure you re-cover that spot or you will probably see it thru your paint.
Also keep in mind the different color sealers (or primers) will change your top coat color some. Just some things I have found as I hobby thru this.
Dave

[skip99]

If you are going to wait til spring, just spray a coat of epoxy primer, not thinned, which is what most refer to as using epoxy as a sealer. We spray it as a sealer just before color, wet on wet, to obviously seal the substrates, but also fills minor scratches, and traps dust,..I'll spray my sealer. Wait 30 minutes, then can actually sand out minor imperfections before color, you have to use 600 or finer at this point. Another tip, I use dx 330 ,wax remover, as a lubricant, with 800 grit paper to remove bugs, nibs, even runs, all the way up to my first clear coat., just lightly sand out the problems, dust a little sealer or base back on the area, ..and go to the next step. Ppg, actually sells a dedicated sealer, it's like 18 bucks a qt, and uses 165 hardner, the same hardner used in their urethane primer..
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Ps, this stuff is omni label, sold by ppg
https://buyat.ppg.com/refinishProductCatalog/
This lists all ppg stuff,
The epoxy is mp180,
The primer is 182
The sealer is mp180
It's all I use now....I don't use omni color, it doesn't cover well. But the clears are ok..

[vht]

Does anyone have a pt no for martain senour epoxy from napa? I've been using their high build primer already. I'd like to find it in white. Kustom shop has it and says it's compatable with all brands. Since I may get my paint from them, I may go that route.
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[zicc1835]

Originally Posted by turp mcspray

That's all I use for sealer. I would wait to do your final sand, untill you are ready to paint. That way if something happened to bump into a panel, leaving a scratch or ding, you will find it doing the final sand, instead of not seeing it untill the first coat of paint goes on.

how many parts thinner do you add to make it a sealer
thanks

[Zamochit]

Doesnt it go epoxy, primer, sealer, paint, clear?

[turp mcspray]

Generally you thin it by 10-20% or so. Whatever it takes to make it lay out nice and smooth.

[Zamochit]

I was really curious about the epoxy being used as sealer, so I called some paint reps up today from two different places to see what they had to say. The conclusion was NO do not use epoxy as a sealer! Even when thinned out it takes epoxy 30 days to fully cure and when used as sealer causes dieback and shrinkage.

[kxmotox247]

Yeah, that sounded funny to me. I've always been told that primers can absorb the toners from the color so you use a sealer to prevent this... as well as increase bond strength of your top coats. We use house of kolor paints and the sealers they sell are relatively inexpensive. It's just way too much labor overall to take shortcuts.

[turp mcspray]

Based on 25 plus years of painting, I have to say "nonsense" to the NO epoxy as a sealer.

[zicc1835]

Originally Posted by turp mcspray

Generally you thin it by 10-20% or so. Whatever it takes to make it lay out nice and smooth.

thank you
jz

[vht]

I called several to on the epoxy over bare metal or rust. They said they never heard of that, you have to use etching primer. There seems to be a lot of confused people in the auto paint business. I've seen a few jobs after some research that have used the epoxy as a sealer and they turned out great. Mine won't be painted for awhile but drying and curing time varies on certain brands of epoxies from what I've read. kustomshop.com has instuctions on mixing as a sealer on their site. Don't claim to be a body man by no means, just stating stuff I've been told by people that do it. Everybody has a different way of doing things.

[turp mcspray]

Epoxy was made for bare metal. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, shrinks after it cures. I have not seen the epoxy shrink any more than anything else, when used as a sealer. Etching primer was also made for bare metal. Epoxy is a more "universal" product, and has pretty much phased out etching primers in the last 15 or so years. I have known a LOT of people who sell paint products, who don't know the first thing about using them. LOL! Your best bet is to talk to people in your area who actually paint, and get their opinions on various products.

[72bowtiestepper]

Originally Posted by turp mcspray

Epoxy was made for bare metal. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, shrinks after it cures. I have not seen the epoxy shrink any more than anything else, when used as a sealer. Etching primer was also made for bare metal. Epoxy is a more "universal" product, and has pretty much phased out etching primers in the last 15 or so years. I have known a LOT of people who sell paint products, who don't know the first thing about using them. LOL! Your best bet is to talk to people in your area who actually paint, and get their opinions on various products.

That is excellent advise.....My son is in the auto body biz. & he tells me the same thing.....Don't go to a salesman for answers....go to someone that acually uses the product !

[kxmotox247]

I did just see a couple of epoxys advertised that they could be used as a sealer but only if the surface being covered had sufficient coverage of epoxy over it... No bare metal. While I'm sure you veteran painters are aware of unwritten rules, this board is read by tons of novices just beginning to paint.
Just my opinion but I think novices will always have best results when following the tech sheets written by the chemists who know what works within their paint systems. Operating outside of these instructions without a whole lot of experience is an experiment and could be very expensive. Again, I'm not disagreeing with what has been stated but feel like anyone just beginning to paint should follow manufacturer guidelines. Most of these companies have tech lines that you can call. House of kolor does and the guys that reply are very knowledgeable. They want their products to work for you! That being said I agree about the comments where salesman don't always know although they don't last long if they cost people money based on bad advice.

[kxmotox247]

I think that was a Kirker product btw that I just saw.

[cadillac_al]

Collision repair is much different than restoration repair. Body shops don't have time to wait for epoxy and they don't care how long the paint job lasts because most people trade cars every 3-4 years. Epoxy is the standard in restoration work where the vehicle is expected to last a long time. Old timers don't want to give up their etching primer and will use it until they retire. Most paint reps cater to collision repair shops and usually only recommend the fast stuff. I think even Nason recommends their epoxy primer as a suitable sealer right in the tech sheets. So, if you ask for advice from paint reps and collision shops you are going to get recommendations for quick collision repair.

[zicc1835]

Originally Posted by kxmotox247

I think that was a Kirker product btw that I just saw.

kx
i noticed in your aviator the roof is white i am thinking of doing the same ....just the roof not the pillars you have any pics u van post or email
thanks
jz

[kxmotox247]

Actually, the truck has been stripped and is in primer right now. I just finished the driver side floor and rocker repairs today. I'll be putting it back very closely to what it looked like in the Avatar photo.

[zicc1835]

looks great thanks for the pics do you know if 67-68 where the only years they painted the roof without the pillars i am doing a 72 i dont care i like the look just wondering ... that primer color is interesting ....the next build is a 67 SBSS im going with a pale yellow maybe i use that color primer what is it ....a high build who makes it if you dont mind