1971 Pontiac LeMans Sportwagon with Pontiac 350/350 ??

[Grizz1963]

I hope this is the right place to ask this question.

Right guys.

I hope you have all had a great festive season with all the right stuff happening.

I have never professed to know much about engines and whatakes tjem gpod or bad.

I do know what I love though and it is V8 motors.


So here is my question.

I am looking at a 71 Pontiac Sport Wagon with the following:

The car runs like a sewing machine, its rock solid having always been in the Bay area where I live & we never see anything worse than rain as far as weather is concerned. The engine is a 350ci pontiac turbo 350 3spd auto trans , it has power steering & brakes , a/c, & even a working cb radio.


As a totally unknown quantity to me (my 66 Chevy C10 truck runs a 350/350 combo) I just need to know what the good, the bad and the ugly would be to lool for.

The clock indicates 30k miles but one needs to assume that is 100k or even 200k on top of that. The body wear is minimal except for paint "patina"so who knows.


ANY ADVICE AND INPUT APPRECIATED.


PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT THE CAR AND I ARE IN ENGLAND SO SPARES ARE NOT THE EASIEST TO GET TO.







Thank you all.

[Ta2Don]

As mentioned earlier via texting, looks and reads as if decent deal. Hopefully you'll get lots of advice on things to look for when evaluating. Cheers Mate!

[truckster]

You probably already know that the Pontiac 350 isn't the same as a Chevy 350. It's a good engine, but parts will cost more. The 350 trans is the same internally but the Buick-Pontiac-Olds bellhousing is different.

I would definitely be interested in a car like that if I were in the market. We need more pictures.

[61_FL_Apache]

Look at the wear on the brake pedal. If it shows very little wear you may only have the miles shown. If the rubber pad is worn down to the metal, then you can add 100k at least to the odometer.
Sounds like a fun project!

['63GENIII]

Had to re read your location a couple of times. At first I thought you were saying the SF Bay area. I was going to say that if the car was a coastal car to look out for rot in hidden places. Looks like you have that covered though.

I don't think that a compression test would be out of order to try and determine the condition of the engine, pulling the trans dipstick to check color and smell of the ATF. Should be fairly bright pink (not brown) and not smell burnt.

The rubber brake pedal pad wear can be a good indicator as 61 FL Apache said as can the heel area by the gas pedal. The brightwork on the dash pic looks to be in great shape from the little bit I can see. These areas can look a little long in the tooth as the miles start to pile up as well.

If all checks out and the price is right, go for it! Poncho parts are a little harder to come by as has been pointed out but most can be had without a Holy Grail type search. Sounds like a pretty cool car. Would love to see some pics as I don't think Ive seen one before.

['63GENIII]

Hey Grizz, one question for you.. Does the wagon have a fold down "rumble seat" in the far back? Not sure why but that would up the "cool" factor for me LOL!

[special-K]

The car could have actual miles. It may have only been used for trips, vacations, etc. It's not like you have 3,000 miles coast to coast and a bigger V8 wagon isn't exactly what I'd think of as a typical vehicle for daily use on the Isle. The engine compartment looks awfully unmolested for a high mile vehicle, especially where replacement parts might tend to be "suplemented" with not so original parts. Like you said, spare are not really available.

Pontiac used one block, so you have an engine that was built up to 455 cu. in. That would be a tough and durable 350.

Has this wagon spent it's life in England or did it spend it's life in the USA until more recent years and brought over as a classic?

[Grizz1963]

Originally Posted by special-K

The car could have actual miles. It may have only been used for trips, vacations, etc. It's not like you have 3,000 miles coast to coast and a bigger V8 wagon isn't exactly what I'd think of as a typical vehicle for daily use on the Isle. The engine compartment looks awfully unmolested for a high mile vehicle, especially where replacement parts might tend to be "suplemented" with not so original parts. Like you said, spare are not really available.

Pontiac used one block, so you have an engine that was built up to 455 cu. in. That would be a tough and durable 350.

Has this wagon spent it's life in England or did it spend it's life in the USA until more recent years and brought over as a classic?

Thank you all for the replies so far guys.

Special-K

The car only came to England in May of 2016

For some reason it has not sold.

I think one reason could be that people in England have no space and at:
Width 77"=2m and Length 207"=5.3m it is just too big.

Seems they are becoming hot in the USA now as people with families want hotrods but need the space and older stuff gets too expensive for many.

The wear on parts like steering, shifter, pedals and door pulls look very honest and as mentioned it could be a genuine 30k miler one owner as stated.

[Grizz1963]

Originally Posted by Ta2Don

As mentioned earlier via texting, looks and reads as if decent deal. Hopefully you'll get lots of advice on things to look for when evaluating. Cheers Mate!

Thanks Don

Will look out for it all as advised.

Originally Posted by truckster

You probably already know that the Pontiac 350 isn't the same as a Chevy 350. It's a good engine, but parts will cost more. The 350 trans is the same internally but the Buick-Pontiac-Olds bellhousing is different.

I would definitely be interested in a car like that if I were in the market. We need more pictures.

This one is a 350 Pontiac motor.

More pics if it goes ahead.

Originally Posted by 61_FL_Apache

Look at the wear on the brake pedal. If it shows very little wear you may only have the miles shown. If the rubber pad is worn down to the metal, then you can add 100k at least to the odometer.
Sounds like a fun project!

Wear seems minimal on supplied pics from seller.

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

Had to re read your location a couple of times. At first I thought you were saying the SF Bay area. I was going to say that if the car was a coastal car to look out for rot in hidden places. Looks like you have that covered though.

I don't think that a compression test would be out of order to try and determine the condition of the engine, pulling the trans dipstick to check color and smell of the ATF. Should be fairly bright pink (not brown) and not smell burnt.

The rubber brake pedal pad wear can be a good indicator as 61 FL Apache said as can the heel area by the gas pedal. The brightwork on the dash pic looks to be in great shape from the little bit I can see. These areas can look a little long in the tooth as the miles start to pile up as well.

If all checks out and the price is right, go for it! Poncho parts are a little harder to come by as has been pointed out but most can be had without a Holy Grail type search. Sounds like a pretty cool car. Would love to see some pics as I don't think Ive seen one before.

I do think they are reasonably rare.

My feeling is that wagons will be the next big thing.

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

Hey Grizz, one question for you.. Does the wagon have a fold down "rumble seat" in the far back? Not sure why but that would up the "cool" factor for me LOL!

Yes sir it certainly has that seat.

Just for you.

Enjoy.

[Indian113]

That rear facing third seat brings back some nightmares! If you have Never been in one for 1700 miles in 31 hours you can't relate. My parents would load up our family and drive straight thru to LA from Iowa for Vacation and I always got to sit in the 3rd seat.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by Indian113

That rear facing third seat brings back some nightmares! If you have Never been in one for 1700 miles in 31 hours you can't relate. My parents would load up our family and drive straight thru to LA from Iowa for Vacation and I always got to sit in the 3rd seat.

Did you make funny faces at the people staring face t face from behind? I used to call it the tail gunner seat.

['63GENIII]

I do think they are reasonably rare.

My feeling is that wagons will be the next big thing.



Yes sir it certainly has that seat.

Just for you.

Enjoy.



[/QUOTE]

Haha! That is just too stinkin' cool! My Grandparents had one when I was a kid. Still have fond memories of getting carsick in that seat on the way to family vacations! LOL. Good luck with the deal. It looks pretty cool!

[Grizz1963]

It is the 350 motor and according to seller it runs like a sewing machine.

Some pics, random stuff I do Nike.....






Possibly the worst rust based on photos supplied.

I suspect that is as a result of that ding above it from a long time ago.



Car is a one owner, fully "patina'd" unit.

I do like the surface rust and would keep it like that, maybe only fix the rusty quarter panel.







Currently my biggest concern is that missing tail light lense and the trim on the rusty panel.





So it needs a few bits.

The seats are good but lots of stitching is pulled apart, presumably sun damage over the years.

[Indian113]

Originally Posted by special-K

Did you make funny faces at the people staring face t face from behind? I used to call it the tail gunner seat.

I was 10 years Old, What do you THINK

[Ta2Don]

Rear seat is cool, I remember riding in one of those with my cousins...
Too bad you can't post that blue morris my way!

[mud.man.rj]

Man that is a cool wagon, keep us posted on what you do, seems quite original and nice to be different but parts still available. Go for it.
Mudman.

[Grizz1963]

Started this thread.

May be even more informative.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=799548

I do love forums and the info they bring.

[61_FL_Apache]

Cool looking wagon! The tail light may be a little hard to find, but who knows. I would roll in it as is!

[truckster]

You can get pretty much any part you need for that wagon. I owned a number of GM full-size wagons over the years, and as a kid I crossed the continent (ours, not yours) looking out that back window. If the price is one you're comfortable with, I'd go for it.

[Grizz1963]

Originally Posted by 61_FL_Apache

Cool looking wagon! The tail light may be a little hard to find, but who knows. I would roll in it as is!

Thank you.

I still need to go look and decide.

Originally Posted by truckster

You can get pretty much any part you need for that wagon. I owned a number of GM full-size wagons over the years, and as a kid I crossed the continent (ours, not yours) looking out that back window. If the price is one you're comfortable with, I'd go for it.

My current biggest problem is that it will need a rear light lense, in England you cannot get a roadworthy certificate and license or insurance without that lense.

It could be a deal breaker, mad but true.

[Grizz1963]

PS.

Lense in question.

[Grizz1963]

Found these clips.

https://youtu.be/bkn3q4Ezwys


And a faster one :rocker:


https://youtu.be/Ta6kP3itZx8


Still want one.

[Coley]

The lens for that back corner wouldn't be too tough to find. There were a lot of vehicles made in those years and that piece is not an overly valuable one.
Keep an eye on Ebay or maybe a parts car off of craigslist.
All Good
Coley

[61_FL_Apache]

Originally Posted by Grizz1963

Found these clips.

https://youtu.be/bkn3q4Ezwys


And a faster one :rocker:


https://youtu.be/Ta6kP3itZx8


Still want one.

11.60 was impressive!

[Grizz1963]

Originally Posted by Coley

The lens for that back corner wouldn't be too tough to find. There were a lot of vehicles made in those years and that piece is not an overly valuable one.
Keep an eye on Ebay or maybe a parts car off of craigslist.
All Good
Coley

Interestingly a left hand one sold for $104.00 on EBay recently.

I think that is expensive, but the market dictates price.