Could I put in a 700R4?

[Chuck H]

Hi everyone,
I have an '88 gmc 1500 (One of the first of it's body style, technically it's an '87) two wheel drive single cab with the factory 305 ci V8 with the three speed hydramatic transmission. Yesterday, I loaned it to my brother who was moving his girlfreind out of her house. Huge mistake. He had it fully loaded while pulling a fully loaded trailer (After I told him not to tow with it) and burned up my transmission. I now have no reverse gear and first gear is very noisy. My question is, could I put a model 700R4 overdrive transmission in my truck without any strange alterations? If not, I have no problem putting in another hydramatic in, as it's been a decent transmission up until it's recent untimely death. Any helpful info greatly appreciated.

[GenIIIShorty]

i don't remember if they are the same length or not, i'm pretty sure the 700r4 is longer, sop you would need to shorten your driveshaft (or just find one in the junkyard out of a truck that's the same as yours, but had the 700r4 in it). but you'd need to get an electronics eliminator kit for the it, and then bolt it in with a non-lockup converter and drive away! make sure you hook the TV cable up right!!!!!! i've heard you can fry a tranny in just a few miles if the TV cable is out of adjustment. (this is pretty simplified, but it's basically a bolt on)

[milehightoyz]

700r4 is same length as a longtailshaft th350

[GenIIIShorty]

yeah, i'm just so used to dealing with shortshaft th350s.......i used to be a car guy!

[waltz]

yes but dont do it man they dont call em slippy 700s for nothing you will need a shorter drive shaft the 700 is longer but is a pile of dung if you burned up a th350 a 700 will crap out for shure one good 2/3rd gear smoke show and its all done yea you will get better mpg (as long as the truck will move) GM was so ashamed of the 700 they finally fixed the problems??with it an called it a 4L60 to fool people in to thinking it was a all together new trans....

[GenIIIShorty]

no, GM renamed it because they went to that naming system for all their trannys: 4L60E = 4- 4 forward gears; L-Longitudinal (RWD); 60-rated for 360 ft/lbs of torque, stock; E-electronically controlled. 700s have the same rap that TH350s used to have (betcha didn't know that people used to swap a powerslide in because TH350s were considered weak when they first came out, did ya?) with all the aftermarket support out there for the 700s, i have seen 700s run behind 700 HP / 750 FT/LB of torque motors in 8 second cars. if you just slap a 100,xxx+ 700R4 into your vehicle and expect it to run perfect, you are nuts , you wouldn't do that with any other tranny! another thing i said before, if you don't hook up the TV cable right, it will destroy the tranny in as few as a couple of MILES!!! bowtie overdrives (www.bowtieoverdrives.com) has a TV made EZ kit to help the DIYer. so until you know all the facts don't start bashing on crap! oh and a neutral drop of death will kill any tranny, and if you are smoking the tires during a 2/3 shift, you probably have too much power for a stock 700R4. also, when you get it rebuilt and installed, if you are a DIYer (like myself) then take it to a tranny shop and have them adjust the line pressure and such (stuff you can't do in your garage without special tools), otherwise your tranny will be a dog and you could possibly burn it up. another thing, if you put a lockup removal kit in, it is not recommended for towing or long drives (road trips over a couple of hours). my suggestion if you plan to tow or roadtrip, and don't have a motor with computer that came with a 700 in the first place, there are companies out there that off tranny stand-slone computers. as far as cost, yes it will cost more to do a 700R4 right, but with gas prices the way they are, the overdrive will help it to pay for itself. i think that's all i have to say on the subject for now, if i think of anything else, i'll let you know. remember: JUST BECAUSE IT IS "NEW" DOESN'T MEAN IT IS ROCKET SCIENCE!!!!!

[1FaastC10]

if you blew up your TH400 (the only non-OD automatic offered 88+), there is only one answer. SM465 manual. if you break that thing, you need to look into getting a medium duty truck (1 1/2 ton or larger ) your brother didnt just kill your trans with this one occasion of heavy towing, it has been going down hill for a while, and my guess is you or the previous owner have neglected proper maintnance on the trans. there's a reason they put TH400s behind 454s, they're tough as nails as far as automatics go.

[1FaastC10]

Originally Posted by GenIIIShorty

no, GM renamed it because they went to that naming system for all their trannys: 4L60E = 4- 4 forward gears; L-Longitudinal (RWD); 60-rated for 360 ft/lbs of torque, stock; E-electronically controlled.

while you are correct, the 4L60 designation was used from i believe 1988-1992. in late 1992 GM introduced the 4L60E which requires an ECM to control its shift points, as the vavle body is entirely electronic.

another thing, if you put a lockup removal kit in, it is not recommended for towing or long drives (road trips over a couple of hours). my suggestion if you plan to tow or roadtrip, and don't have a motor with computer that came with a 700 in the first place, there are companies out there that off tranny stand-slone computers. as far as cost, yes it will cost more to do a 700R4 right, but with gas prices the way they are, the overdrive will help it to pay for itself. i think that's all i have to say on the subject for now, if i think of anything else, i'll let you know. remember: JUST BECAUSE IT IS "NEW" DOESN'T MEAN IT IS ROCKET SCIENCE!!!!!

as for the lockup converter removal kit, towing with one is no different than towing with a TH400 or a TH350 without a lockup converter. it will be fine, so long as fluid tempratures arent too high.

i can only assume by the last part of your reply that you are under the impression that all 700R4s and 4L60s are the same as a 4L60E, and you are dead wrong. from 1982-early 1992 the only thing "electronic" about the transmission is the torque converter clutch, or locking converter as some refer to it. using a pre-1992 trans will eliminate the need for the special stand alone system, but will require and aftermarket TCC lockup kit, which is available through a number of sources.

depending on your gear ratio, tire size, the powerband of the engine, and the overall weight of the truck and the load it regularly carries, you may not see any milage gains at all swapping to a 700R4/4L60.

[GenIIIShorty]

i apologize, i thought they went to the 4L60 designation with the LT1 in 93. and yes i know the only thing electronic is the lockup in the pre 4L60"E"s sorry that i didn't make that clear. and as far as the electronics eliminator kit, if you completely take them out in the "E"s they are not recommended for towing or long hauls. also if you do lockup removal kit, rather than just throwing in a non-lockup converter (not recommended, you'll have problems) the tranny doesn't cool as well, due to having to block some ports, which is why they are not recommended for towing or long hauls. sorry for any confusion.

[1FaastC10]

you keep talking about electronics eliminator kits. you cant possibly do that with a 4L60E, if im not mistaken, without the electronics, you would have park and neutral, that's it. care to post a link to one of these "electronics eliminator kits".

[GenIIIShorty]

yes, yes, i'll look, and i could be completely off base, but i could have sworn they exist. maybe it's just swapping a pre "E" tranny in. but i'm looking now........prolly won't find anything, but i'll try......

[GenIIIShorty]

ok, i'll admit it. i was not just a little off base, i was completely wrong!!!!!!! to put a 4L60"E" tranny into a vehicle it did not come in, you need a stand alone transmission computer, or the motor and computer that came with one. you CAN NOT just eliminate the electronics in an "E" tranny

[99-2door]

Originally Posted by 1FaastC10

if you blew up your TH400 (the only non-OD automatic offered 88+), there is only one answer. SM465 manual. if you break that thing, you need to look into getting a medium duty truck (1 1/2 ton or larger ) your brother didnt just kill your trans with this one occasion of heavy towing, it has been going down hill for a while, and my guess is you or the previous owner have neglected proper maintnance on the trans. there's a reason they put TH400s behind 454s, they're tough as nails as far as automatics go.

Nah... there were some 1/2 tons with TH-350s in 88 up to 90.

And as far as the transmission crapping out, that doesn't necessarily mean poor maintenance. It is the nature of mechanical things to fail, no matter how well maintained.

[1FaastC10]

Originally Posted by 99-2door

Nah... there were some 1/2 tons with TH-350s in 88 up to 90.

show me proof of this. i have never seen a truck post-88 that had a 3 speed that WASNT a TH400, nor have i ever seen parts for a post 87 TH350. the catalogs i currently have have no mention of one after mind you i worked for a GM parts department for 2 years, an AC Delco dealer for 6 months, as well as spending my high school years in a grease pit at Jiffy Lube. i have NEVER seen a post 86 TH350.

http://www.aceomatic.com/catalog/aut...series.asp?t=7
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/th350.htm
http://cloud.prohosting.com/davenger/transindex.html
http://www.transmissionparts.com/chevroletindex.htm

seems to me nobody lists them for anything after 1986. hmmm, i wonder why that is.

And as far as the transmission crapping out, that doesn't necessarily mean poor maintenance. It is the nature of mechanical things to fail, no matter how well maintained.

true, but a religious maintnance routine has been proven to make machinery last longer. being a TH400, its the beefiest of the beef. it broke, which isnt all that common. maintnance probably played a factor in it. the abuse didnt help, but it isnt the sole reason for it.

[Already Gone]

I've seen an 87 Caprice Wagon sitting beside a house for the last year or so. I finally went over the other day and knocked on the door to see what was what with it. I thought it should have the 700R trans and I'd like to put one in my truck. As its turns out the guys sister in law fried the motor in it a few years back and he'd love to get rid it off his driveway. I have 2 questions.. By driving a car till the motor seizes from overheating does that damage the trans in any way? I think not but am not sure.. If I buy this car and want to yank the trans do I need to take anything off the car besides the trans & torque converter to make it work in my truck.. I do realize that this trans will need a rebuild with serious parts so my 396/350HP wont fry it when walk on it.

[1FaastC10]

shouldnt need anything else. what gears does the car have in it now? if its anything less than 3.73, i wouldnt bother putting the 700R4 in. www.73-87.com used to have a good article on how to wire the lockup.