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#1 |
BlahBlahBlah
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wa.
Posts: 19,874
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radiator and over flow question
ok hope this doesnt make me sound stupid but i just havent figured this one out yet...if your radiator is under pressure how come it doesnt constantly blow out the overflow hose? as far as overflow bottles go ive seen every shape and size it seems...how does the water that goes into the overflow bottle get back into the system? im sure this is all 101 stuff, unfortunatly there are some things im barely at the 1 level...thanks
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#2 |
20' Daredevil (Ret)
![]() Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 13,643
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It's basic suckage & drawage - lessee if I can further confuse the issue. It doesn't blow out the overflow until the pressure rating of the cap is exceeded. With a sealed system, the radiator is always full, so with expansion when heated, some coolant will be forced out, and caught in the tank. As it cools it contracts, and if there is a sealed-system type cap in place, coolant will be sucked back into the radiator through the hose that ends near the bottom of the tank. Make any sense now?
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- Mike - 1972 K20 LWB 350/350/205 RIP El Jay |
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#3 |
BlahBlahBlah
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wa.
Posts: 19,874
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so the bottom of the cap rests below the over flow opening until the pressure builds up and pushes cap bottom up and exposes the hole? wait, if the system cools and the cap goes back how does the coolent get back into the system if the hole is covered?
some of the over flow bottles ive seen are just that, bottles like a jim beam bottle or a beer can etc. i guess some people think those look cool...anyway all those will do is catch coolent and not let it get sucked back because its non pressurized? am i on the right track? lol sorry if im just being thick |
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#4 | |
20' Daredevil (Ret)
![]() Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
B) Anything will work as an overflow tank; it's not pressurized. All you need is a hose that reaches near the bottom of the tank. Some of the OEM units have the hose connection at the bottom of the tank, so 100% of the coolant can be recovered, if necessary.
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- Mike - 1972 K20 LWB 350/350/205 RIP El Jay |
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#5 | |
Lovin' Life in Miss.!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Puckett, Mississippi
Posts: 1,937
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Quote:
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The truck... you hear that? No really, you did hear that?!!! |
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#6 |
Life is a gamble
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
Posts: 796
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CG, I'm very happy that you posted this, because I've been looking at mine trying to figure out the exact same thing. I just couldn't figure out how to word it without sounding like a total dufas.
I'm sure there are others who will need this info too. Does your radiator have little square holes in the top? I've been filling up my radiator every time I drive it for fear that the level will drop down too much.
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1970 Orange CST C-10 w/350, posi, Longbed The torpid artist seeks inspiration at any cost, by virtue or by vice, by friend or by fiend, by prayer or by wine. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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#7 |
Pennyless Fool
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Forney,Tx
Posts: 439
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http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/he.../cooling.shtml
You know, this internet stuff has answers for just about everything. ![]()
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"Who owns this car with the peace sign, the mag wheels, and four on the floor?" 67 Short Step 283/TH400/4.11 |
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#8 |
BlahBlahBlah
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wa.
Posts: 19,874
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[QUOTE=ACES]CG, I'm very happy that you posted this, because I've been looking at mine trying to figure out the exact same thing. I just couldn't figure out how to word it without sounding like a total dufas.
QUOTE] no problem leave the dufassing to me :p |
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#9 |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rose Hill, KS, USA
Posts: 12,684
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Does the recovery tank need to be at a certain height in relation to the top of the radiator or can you put it where ever it fits whether that is higher or lower than the top of the radiator?
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1970 Blazer with a 400 sbc and 4" lift 1980 Pontiac Trans Am, 455 Oldsmobile 2012 Kawasaki Concours 14 |
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#10 |
Pennyless Fool
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Forney,Tx
Posts: 439
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I would think as long as the recovery tank is filled above the hose opening and the system is sealed it would work. Physics right? The system is going to suck something into the radiator to replace the lost coolant, if the hose is submerged in coolant inside the tank then coolant it will be. Shouldn't make much difference where the tank is should it?
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"Who owns this car with the peace sign, the mag wheels, and four on the floor?" 67 Short Step 283/TH400/4.11 |
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#11 | |
20' Daredevil (Ret)
![]() Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
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- Mike - 1972 K20 LWB 350/350/205 RIP El Jay |
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#12 |
Franko72
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio
Posts: 471
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is your rad. overflow puking right now? dont over fill it when topping the level off.I keep mine about 1 to 2 inches below the fill opening. I dont have an overfill tank or bottle of any kind for my Big Block. never had any problems
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![]() 1972 C20 cheyenne Super 402 BB/400 turbo LWB A/C Tilt, Cruise Control, Saddle tanks, Tach My Home Page Better to burn out than it is to rust |
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#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Commerce City, CO
Posts: 66
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After looking at Jeg's I think I am more confused than before. There are catch cans, recovery cans, and reciculating catch cans. I'd like a 'catch can' that will not only hold the "green puke" but also reintroduce the coolant to the radiator when the coolant temp. drops; and have a nice polished finish
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'71 C10 swb 350sb/700r4 |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: saskatoon, planet earth
Posts: 691
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so, does that mean when the prerasure valve in the cap closes, and the "coolant" cools down there is a negative preasure, or in essence a vacume within the system?
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#15 | |
20' Daredevil (Ret)
![]() Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
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- Mike - 1972 K20 LWB 350/350/205 RIP El Jay |
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#16 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,191
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'68 Short Step LS1/T56, Hydratech, Fatman Fabrications Stage III, Baer, Hot Rods to Hell, US Body, S&W, etc |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Commerce City, CO
Posts: 66
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If I go with the 'Be Cool' recirculating catch can through Jeg's how are the lines hooked up?
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'71 C10 swb 350sb/700r4 |
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#18 | |
20' Daredevil (Ret)
![]() Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 13,643
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Quote:
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- Mike - 1972 K20 LWB 350/350/205 RIP El Jay |
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,410
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Heres an overflow bottle I installed years ago when I learned that the lower 1/4 of my rad was plugged. I didn't have the time (or the funds) to replace the rad til later. Temp was going as high as 260 deg. and she was puking massive amounts of coolant. OUCH! But that sure says something about the original 1970 350 in my truck, shes still holding her own!
Anyway, the bottle is from a 1982 camaro, it mounted nicely on the inner fender with 2 screws. See where the tube goes into the top of the bottle? That tube continues (as part of the bottle) down to the bottom. If you find that your coolant level in the rad is down a little every time you check then your system is not totally enclosed. Air is less dense than coolant so every time your engine cools down (and coolant volume contracts) you are sucking air back into the system. The cap on the bottle has to be vented or the bottle will get crushed when the coolant contracts (negative pressure in the bottle is less that atmos. pressure) and/or explode when the coolant expands (positive pressure in the bottle exceeds atmos. pressure). Check under the truck for any signs of coolant dripping when you shut down after driving. Thats when temp and pressure is at its highest. If you do find a leak don't attempt to fix it until everything cools down. I've stripped hose clamps before and its not a pleasant experience when a hose pops off. Its messy and extremely dangerous. Check all your hose clamps/connections, make sure they are tight. And check the hose connection to your coolant bottle, look for cracks, pinholes etc. in the bottle. Thats about all there is to it! An enclosed system that operates by the expansion and contraction of coolant.
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1970 GMC 1500 Custom Original 350/TH350 Victoria, BC, Canada You can wish in one hand and crap in the other. See which one gets filled first. Last edited by Southpa; 10-13-2004 at 03:10 PM. |
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#20 | |
Lovin' Life in Miss.!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Puckett, Mississippi
Posts: 1,937
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Quote:
68LSS1, I also think your tire pressure would increase with altitude. You fill a balloon at sea level it's x psi plus atmospheric. You go up in elevation the balloon is still x psi plus atmospheric where it was filled. The balloon will expand. In your above example the tire pressure would be 39.5 psig at altitude. Assuming calibrated/accurate gauges.
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The truck... you hear that? No really, you did hear that?!!! Last edited by chickenwing; 10-13-2004 at 12:53 PM. |
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#21 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,191
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Catch cans basically do just that. Catch the overflow and they usually have a means to drain like a petcock. You need a recirculating type can. There is not much difference between them all. Basically your system even though it has a cap and is closed is called a open system. The true closed system is used on all most all newer vehicles starting in about (guessing here) mid to late '90's. These systems have the tank mounted as high as the highest point of the cooling system to ensure that any air will not make a air lock. Sometimes the cap is on the recovery/expansion tank also. A lot of times the return out of the tank goes to a tee in the lower radiator hose. For your use just about any tank will work. It seems by looking at Jegs site even the different manufacturers interchange terms somewhat. If it has a drain, it's not what you want. Looking for one or two nipples for supply/return and vent and the "bling" is up to you. Looks like the Be-Cool, Jaz, Goza and Billet Specialties all have one for you.
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'68 Short Step LS1/T56, Hydratech, Fatman Fabrications Stage III, Baer, Hot Rods to Hell, US Body, S&W, etc Last edited by 68LSS1; 10-12-2004 at 11:59 PM. |
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#22 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Commerce City, CO
Posts: 66
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Quote:
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'71 C10 swb 350sb/700r4 |
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#23 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,191
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Atmospheric pressure changes with altitude. That's good because I have "denser" air down here at sea level which means more power. The rating of the cap is at what pressure it opens (and that's how many pounds of pressure per square inch the cap is seeing). There is a spring that opens as pressure goes up which allows coolant to go out the nipple on the radiator. There is also a check valve that will open when pressure drops down (which creates a vacuum) and "suck" the coolant back in. Didn't think radiator caps had that many parts did you?
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'68 Short Step LS1/T56, Hydratech, Fatman Fabrications Stage III, Baer, Hot Rods to Hell, US Body, S&W, etc |
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#24 |
its all about the +6 inches
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hilliard Ohio
Posts: 2,693
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You only need one hose....as long as that hose is in the bottom of the bottle, it'll fill, and drain through that bottle.
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#25 |
Got Light Emitting Diode?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 2,485
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if you had a 20 oz pop bottle with a hole the size of the hose in the cap and the hose going to the bottom of the bottle it would work. ask me how i know
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1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's ![]() 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler |
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